Rant @ IA photogs

[speedminded]

alright listen, i can empathize with you guys when all these little bastards are getting their first DSLR's and running around calling themselves bonafide photographers, but hold on a sec. Most of the "new camera" crew aren't going around claiming to be God's gift to picturetaking, but are rather just interested in picking up a new hobby and taking some pictures, and were most likely inspired to do so by looking at y'alls material.

I really don't understand why a lot of you guys (speedminded, AP, etc) are so up-in-arms about people wanting to buy a D40 and have at it. Its not a "bandwagon", and don't act like you started it - automotive photography is by no means a new entity, and you guys had to start somewhere too - AND you were inspired by someone else's work, I'm sure. You guys seem to feel so threatened and insulted by people just dicking around with their first SLRs... let your experience speak for itself in the picture quality.

I can see how the sheer volume of the "what camera should i get" type threads would get annoying, but why not collaborate and make an FAQ thread or something and link all these threads to it, and maybe even go into some basic technique and tips from you guys, the "pro"s. Help out a bit. With talent like Nemesis, Chang, SpeedMinded, DinanM3, A.P., etc etc, this section could be invaluable to new photographers to really learn the trade, but instead its just a big collective eyeroll from some of you guys and it honestly comes off as a bit pompous, though i doubt thats your intention.

It sounds like you just discovered owning a DSLR isn't what it's made out to be.

Feel free to remove my name since I've never once talked down to anyone owning an entry level DSLR, quote me if you have found otherwise. In case you forgot it wasn't that long ago I was still using point & shoot.

Nobody inspired me, individual photos I saw in magazines and online is what inspired me. I was still shooting with a point & shoot when Nemesis, AP, Jaime, etc. had DSLR's, 3 to 4+ years ago there were only a small handful of people producing quality car photos on here. As far a IA goes, THEY WERE the pioneers of automotive photography here and I am sure were an inspiration to many other members. I can't speak for them on who they were inspired by.

I don't recall ever using the term "bandwagon" for new DSLR owners but I will be glad to now. Yes owning a DSLR is jumping on the bandwagon for 90% of the people getting them. Only because someone else had one is why they got one, thinking there photos will be miraculously better, which leads to my only rants...


I've had 4 "rants" on this forum.

1) If you're buying a DSLR to shoot on auto then what is the point? Photos with a low to mid range point & shoot can look just as good as any consumer DSLR with a kit/generic lens, especially with cars. Every day I read it, "sorry the pictures are blurry, I need a better camera like a DSLR". No, they're blurry because someone was shooting 1/8" shutter speed hand held. People think they'll automatically have a better photo because they spent $400-1,000+ on a camera. A camera is just a tool, a disposable one at that, you just have to learn how to use it. A tripod and/or the time delay shutter is your friend, use it if you want crisp shots...whether it be with a P&S or DSLR. If you don't intend on investing in quality lenses then a point & shoot is the way to go.

2) Composition is something you have or you learn. No camera can make someones composition better. Rules are meant to be broken but the rule of 1/3rd's isn't always one of them. Be aware of your surroundings, background, foreground, etc. Power poles sticking out of the roof of a car is a distraction. Shooting through a fence with the car blurry in the background is not artistic, it's a picture of a fence.

3) HDR is not adjusting the levels or lighting & shadows. HDR does not look like a vector image that's been painted with Illustrator. HDR is a way to combine multiple shots to create a photo you couldn't normally take otherwise. It looks realistic like any normal photograph. I bet most people see HDR images everyday and don't even realize it only because the white areas don't look like toasted marshmallows.

4) A photo shoot only pertains to commercial advertising and fashion photography. Pictures of cars are snap shots, doesn't matter if it's a $200 or a $15,000 camera setup they are still snap shots. If you shoot a car for a newspaper or newsletter it's an editorial shoot. If you shoot a car for print advertisement advertising a product then it's a photo shoot. Shooting your gf isn't a photoshoot any more than a 4 year old blowing out their birthday candles, shooting your gf for a comp card is.

[james]

1) If you're buying a DSLR to shoot on auto then what is the point? Photos with a low to mid range point & shoot can look just as good as any consumer DSLR with a kit/generic lens, especially with cars. Every day I read it, "sorry the pictures are blurry, I need a better camera like a DSLR". No, they're blurry because someone was shooting 1/8" shutter speed hand held. People think they'll automatically have a better photo because they spent $400-1,000+ on a camera. A camera is just a tool, a disposable one at that, you just have to learn how to use it. A tripod and/or the time delay shutter is your friend, use it if you want crisp shots...whether it be with a P&S or DSLR. If you don't intend on investing in quality lenses then a point & shoot is the way to go.

yeah seriously....auto =

[osnap]

AP - well said and I understand your perspective.

It sounds like you just discovered owning a DSLR isn't what it's made out to be.

er... wha? No, not at all. I happen to have just gotten a D40 for Christmas, yes, but nobody has ever aimed any comments like these at me, and I've actually been quite pleased with my pictures so far, most of which have been taken in modes other than AUTO.

Feel free to remove my name since I've never once talked down to anyone owning an entry level DSLR, quote me if you have found otherwise. In case you forgot it wasn't that long ago I was still using point & shoot.

im not accusing anyone of talking down to anyone, relax. And im not even talking about low-end SLRs specifically, just people getting SLRs in general.

...And fair enough, I haven't seen you directly saying these things, I just thought I'd seen you associated with some of the threads im talking about. to be fair i havent paid THAT much attention to it, and this wasn't meant to be like a callout at you or anyone in particular, dont get all up in arms about it.

Nobody inspired me, individual photos I saw in magazines and online is what inspired me. I was still shooting with a point & shoot when Nemesis, AP, Jaime, etc. had DSLR's, 3 to 4+ years ago there were only a small handful of people producing quality car photos on here. As far a IA goes, THEY WERE the pioneers of automotive photography here and I am sure were an inspiration to many other members. I can't speak for them on who they were inspired by.

uh... i said you were inspired by other peoples work. and those individual photos in magazines and online? those were taken by other people... so i dont think my comment was inaccurate or unfair.

I don't recall ever using the term "bandwagon" for new DSLR owners but I will be glad to now. Yes owning a DSLR is jumping on the bandwagon for 90% of the people getting them. Only because someone else had one is why they got one, thinking there photos will be miraculously better

yeah, if thats someone's initiative, then sure, bandwagon is a valid term. but 90%, really? cmon, a good few of these people have got to be legitimately interested. My father owned a studio for 10 years and has been shooting for decades... I've always had the itch, and now I finally have a means of trying my hand.

I've had 4 "rants" on this forum.

Honestly I agree with all of these.

it is not even worthing stickying some kind of FAQ if you ask me.

noobs are noobs. and the noobs around here don't want to learn anything. they shoot on auto or program and learn nothing from it. then they ask for comments and critique and get all pissed off when the comments and critiques aren't positive remarks.

go get a book. read stuff. check out websites (IA is hardly a photography site.) join a fuckign photography forum.

it amazes me that people would rather spend 150 dollars on a fucking seminar than get a 20 dollar book and experiment on their own.

i mean frankly i agree, im just saying that rather than griping about threads like that, an FAQ would be a nice way of countering it and I'm sure could be a rich resource for some on here. I've done a fair amount of reading and photography forum browsing, but some may not know where to start, and im sure there are some on here who would appreciate the help from the locals whose photos they already know and appreciate. honestly i personally dont really care, i was just kinda throwing an idea out there.

Okay is fucking right. You ain't got shit to say...

Also, I'm fucking gonna buy a DSLR and start my own watermark and website just so all of you can call me a bandwagon jumper. All the kewl kids are doing it, might as well go out in style.

Fuckin weak ass rant.

...alright, congrats, your e-penis is clearly substantially larger than mine. what exactly is it that youd like me to say?

[speedminded]

im not accusing anyone of talking down to anyone, relax. And im not even talking about low-end SLRs specifically, just people getting SLRs in general.

...And fair enough, I haven't seen you directly saying these things, I just thought I'd seen you associated with some of the threads im talking about. to be fair i havent paid THAT much attention to it, and this wasn't meant to be like a callout at you or anyone in particular, dont get all up in arms about it.

I really don't understand why a lot of you guys (speedminded, AP, etc) are so up-in-arms about people wanting to buy a D40 and have at it. Its not a "bandwagon", and don't act like you started it - automotive photography is by no means a new entity, and you guys had to start somewhere too - AND you were inspired by someone else's work, I'm sure. You guys seem to feel so threatened and insulted by people just dicking around with their first SLRs... let your experience speak for itself in the picture quality.

Where have I acted like or said I feel threatened? It's not my money so I could care less.

If someone wants to get into photography i've always suggested they start shooting with a point & shoot with manual modes. A point and shoot half the price of a entry DSLR will shoots cars and landscape just as well or better than a entry level to higher end consumer DSLR. If you want to shoot people you can get a point & shoot with a hot shoe for a flash and still be at half the price of an entry level DSLR and a flash. Using a onboard pop-up flash on a DSLR produces no better photos than any mid level point & shoot on portrait mode.


Reasons for getting a point and shoot and learning the basics first:

1) Composition is composition, doesn't matter what camera is used. Work on that then work on quality or being capable of larger prints. Most point & shoots have such high megapixels you can still do large prints. I've done 18x22 prints with a 5.0mp point & shoot before and turned out fine.

2) Getting a point & shoots still allows you to learn how to shoot manually.

3) If you want to pursue photography beyond that you have a backup camera. I see cars and random stuff driving down the road all the time, there is no possible way for me to simply pull my DSLR out of my camera bag and take a shot within seconds like I could with my Sony's, especially if I want to zoom.

4) Big camera's get you attention & harassment, whether positive or negative. If you don't have the experience to talk your way out of something then you can easily get knee deep in something you don't want to be involved with. Nobody thinks twice about people using a point & shoot, they aren't threatened by being around them.

[EJ_Allmota]

If someone wants to get into photography i've always suggested they start shooting with a point & shoot with manual modes. A point and shoot half the price of a entry DSLR will shoots cars and landscape just as well or better than a entry level to higher end consumer DSLR. If you want to shoot people you can get a point & shoot with a hot shoe for a flash and still be at half the price of an entry level DSLR and a flash. Using a onboard pop-up flash on a DSLR produces no better photos than any mid level point & shoot on portrait mode.


Reasons for getting a point and shoot and learning the basics first:

1) Composition is composition, doesn't matter what camera is used. Work on that then work on quality or being capable of larger prints. Most point & shoots have such high megapixels you can still do large prints. I've done 18x22 prints with a 5.0mp point & shoot before and turned out fine.

2) Getting a point & shoots still allows you to learn how to shoot manually.

3) If you want to pursue photography beyond that you have a backup camera. I see cars and random stuff driving down the road all the time, there is no possible way for me to simply pull my DSLR out of my camera bag and take a shot within seconds like I could with my Sony's, especially if I want to zoom.

4) Big camera's get you attention & harassment, whether positive or negative. If you don't have the experience to talk your way out of something then you can easily get knee deep in something you don't want to be involved with. Nobody thinks twice about people using a point & shoot, they aren't threatened by being around them.

QFT

[Alan®]

Where have I acted like or said I feel threatened? It's not my money so I could care less.

If someone wants to get into photography i've always suggested they start shooting with a point & shoot with manual modes. A point and shoot half the price of a entry DSLR will shoots cars and landscape just as well or better than a entry level to higher end consumer DSLR. If you want to shoot people you can get a point & shoot with a hot shoe for a flash and still be at half the price of an entry level DSLR and a flash. Using a onboard pop-up flash on a DSLR produces no better photos than any mid level point & shoot on portrait mode.


Reasons for getting a point and shoot and learning the basics first:

1) Composition is composition, doesn't matter what camera is used. Work on that then work on quality or being capable of larger prints. Most point & shoots have such high megapixels you can still do large prints. I've done 18x22 prints with a 5.0mp point & shoot before and turned out fine.

2) Getting a point & shoots still allows you to learn how to shoot manually.

3) If you want to pursue photography beyond that you have a backup camera. I see cars and random stuff driving down the road all the time, there is no possible way for me to simply pull my DSLR out of my camera bag and take a shot within seconds like I could with my Sony's, especially if I want to zoom.

4) Big camera's get you attention & harassment, whether positive or negative. If you don't have the experience to talk your way out of something then you can easily get knee deep in something you don't want to be involved with. Nobody thinks twice about people using a point & shoot, they aren't threatened by being around them.

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said in this thread in one way or another. I got into photography because I got tired of not going to meets because of my car. I'm shooting with a Panasonic DMC-FZ30 and its nothing a but a P&S with a SLR style body.

Everything that speedminded has said in this post. and to prove it here are a few examples.

These are from the first time I started shooting



Among the million things wrong with these shots, there is also the fact that composition is largely lacking, subject isnt very interesting, . So I decided to educate myself by using that photography forum that chad posts up all the time. And I have to say it's incredibly informative.I still havent read everything but there are 40+ pages of information in a word document on my computer and the only thing I have actually sat down and read was the article on composition. With that said, here are some shots from Hawaii that I took.




With just the new information that I had on composition and a few other things that I had realized about the way I was shooting, I feel I was able to make significant improvements. The shots are damn near crystal clear, they are interesting, the composition is MUCH better.

The problem I feel with most people jumping into this is that they don't take the time to go out and actually educate themselves. They figure its just like anything else technology related. They feel they can go out plunk some money on a SLR and be able to take AMAZING shots. But the truth of the matter is that it isn't. While like anything else having good gear always helps you still need to be able to know how to handle it. Let me put it this way. Having a 8 second supra is great. But if you don't know how to launch it and get it down the track the way it should be done will mean you will consistently run 9's or 10's or crash and burn.

[Maniacc]

what exactly is it that youd like me to say?

Post up the usernames of the people who are going around actin' like photographers.



Call 'em out.

[boostedb16]

It sounds like you just discovered owning a DSLR isn't what it's made out to be.

Feel free to remove my name since I've never once talked down to anyone owning an entry level DSLR, quote me if you have found otherwise. In case you forgot it wasn't that long ago I was still using point & shoot.

Nobody inspired me, individual photos I saw in magazines and online is what inspired me. I was still shooting with a point & shoot when Nemesis, AP, Jaime, etc. had DSLR's, 3 to 4+ years ago there were only a small handful of people producing quality car photos on here. As far a IA goes, THEY WERE the pioneers of automotive photography here and I am sure were an inspiration to many other members. I can't speak for them on who they were inspired by.

I don't recall ever using the term "bandwagon" for new DSLR owners but I will be glad to now. Yes owning a DSLR is jumping on the bandwagon for 90% of the people getting them. Only because someone else had one is why they got one, thinking there photos will be miraculously better, which leads to my only rants...


I've had 4 "rants" on this forum.

1) If you're buying a DSLR to shoot on auto then what is the point? Photos with a low to mid range point & shoot can look just as good as any consumer DSLR with a kit/generic lens, especially with cars. Every day I read it, "sorry the pictures are blurry, I need a better camera like a DSLR". No, they're blurry because someone was shooting 1/8" shutter speed hand held. People think they'll automatically have a better photo because they spent $400-1,000+ on a camera. A camera is just a tool, a disposable one at that, you just have to learn how to use it. A tripod and/or the time delay shutter is your friend, use it if you want crisp shots...whether it be with a P&S or DSLR. If you don't intend on investing in quality lenses then a point & shoot is the way to go.

2) Composition is something you have or you learn. No camera can make someones composition better. Rules are meant to be broken but the rule of 1/3rd's isn't always one of them. Be aware of your surroundings, background, foreground, etc. Power poles sticking out of the roof of a car is a distraction. Shooting through a fence with the car blurry in the background is not artistic, it's a picture of a fence.

3) HDR is not adjusting the levels or lighting & shadows. HDR does not look like a vector image that's been painted with Illustrator. HDR is a way to combine multiple shots to create a photo you couldn't normally take otherwise. It looks realistic like any normal photograph. I bet most people see HDR images everyday and don't even realize it only because the white areas don't look like toasted marshmallows.

4) A photo shoot only pertains to commercial advertising and fashion photography. Pictures of cars are snap shots, doesn't matter if it's a $200 or a $15,000 camera setup they are still snap shots. If you shoot a car for a newspaper or newsletter it's an editorial shoot. If you shoot a car for print advertisement advertising a product then it's a photo shoot. Shooting your gf isn't a photoshoot any more than a 4 year old blowing out their birthday candles, shooting your gf for a comp card is.

i agree with the auto setting. my wife wanted a d40 and i bought her one. all she used was the auto setting. i tried to explain that her camera could do so much more. i ended up using it more than she did. if all your going to use is auto then your wasting your money.

[A.P. Photography]

Ok, let me say that there are some noobs on here that actually have an interest and want to get into photography. I have no problem with any of you doing this and I will give feedback and help when warranted. I am very blunt when it comes to feedback but that is what helps you get better. When I started shooting, I posted my photos on the big photog forums and got ripped apart. A shot I thought was great and well executed, they tore apart like a fat woman at an all you can eat buffet. So it was either get better or sell the gear. I didn't get upset but took what they told me and pushed myself to get better.

It takes time to devlop your skill and style. Remeber this, "You can't just jump in the ring with Ali cause you think you can box?" Same thing with photography, you can't just jump in with a camera and expect perfect images, it takes time and training.


Hey Chad, that white duck must have been a Pron photographer.

[Jaimecbr900]

Based on the idea that Airmax posted on here, I'm going to start a reference thread where we can all share ideas and tips on how to shoot better pictures. Notice I said PICTURES, and NOT "photoshoot" or advocating DSLR vs P&S.

I'm going to dig up some of the books I've read and liked. I've got literally a mini-library of books and magazines that helped me realize the nuts and bolts of things. It does NOT tell you how to reproduce someone's work, as Changaroo stated. It does teach you techniques and more importantly theories/reasoning behind some shots. The Ansel Adams quote is exactly right, but HOW do YOU know WHERE to stand????? By reading and practicing. No other way around it. Just like weight loss, there is no real magic pill. People always telling everyone "great pics" to get some pos reps is a false sense of security. Much like actually PLAYING Golf, which for some reason people think is "easy", posting your work on an actual photography site is a humbling experience. You'll either pack up your equipment and sell it or get better. No real in-between. You have to have thick skin because they will tear down even pics you thought were great. I personally don't totally agree with that approach myself, but it does work for some.

I'll leave everyone with this:

You don't just walk into a Hospital or Police station and start using lingo or phrases you HEARD on some TV show and think YOU are somehow at their same level simply because you TALK like them. Right?

This is why some people take offense to trendy people who have no idea what comes out of their mouth any more than the guy that walks into the Hospital thinking he's a Surgeon because he watches Grey's Anatomy on TV.