Non-religious

[Jaimecbr900]

A. this thread was about NON RELIGION......and people who don't believe

What's that got to do with the shallowness and immaturity of your response?

B. I don't know any bible verses, nor do I want to

Probably the reason why you don't bring anything semi-intelligent into a religious debate. Hence why I told you that you can't come "unarmed" to this type of debate, because you obviously don't KNOW what you're talking about.

C. Why do you ask so many questions? is this an interrogation?

Because it's obvious you haven't asked those questions BEFORE creating your assumptive opinion.

D. I am sorry I am not a christian, please chastise me some more you fucking hypocrite.

BTW, by definition a "hypocrite" is someone that professes opinions or beliefs which he/she does not hold.

You wanna show me what part of that definition applies to me?

[Jaimecbr900]

E. My guns are loaded

I noticed you edited your original post to add this tidbit.......I promise you....you don't want to go there with me. Ask around.

BTW, you're not even OLD ENOUGH to own a gun, so how could they be "loaded"......

[Hulud]

Let's assume, for a moment, that there is a God. We may not know the nature of God, or
which religion comes closest to the truth, but we can be sure of one thing:

God does not love you.

Look at all the cruelty and misery in the world, which God does nothing to stop. Right now,
as you are reading this, there are children in various places around the world being raped
and tortured. Most of us would risk our lives, give up our lives, to save them if we could.
God stands by and does nothing. God has abandoned these children, and clearly does not
love them. God does not love you, either.

There are some religions which claim that "God's love is a different kind of love", which is
supposed to explain and justify what appears to be God's divine indifference. This is total
bullshit. If I claim that I love my neighbor, and then set his house on fire and shoot him in
the head, anyone can see that my "love" is not love at all.

Another fallacy along these lines is the statement that, "God doesn't give us more than we
can handle in life". This is a ridiculous statement. Go to a mental institution, go to the ward
for those who are seriously disturbed, and you'll see people who just sit and rock back and
forth all day, staring off into space, or screaming at nonexistant terrors. God has given
them more than they could handle, and now they're totally broken.

So you have no loving God watching over you, making sure you get what you need. You
don't get what you need in life, you don't get what you want, you don't get what you
deserve. You get what you get.

well said

[idriveasloweclipse]

I noticed you edited your original post to add this tidbit.......I promise you....you don't want to go there with me. Ask around.

BTW, you're not even OLD ENOUGH to own a gun, so how could they be "loaded"......

Don't try to push your beliefs or anything......I don't have much to say other than you are a typical christian fighting for a lost cause. Keep defending your "religion" and assuming things about people you know nothing about. It is not your fault though, you have inhereted your ignorance by "believing". I am old enough to own a gun, don't really know where your going with that. I am not going to "ask around" I am sure you have plenty of boyfriends on here who are riding your nuts and ready to support you. DOn't be that guy.

[BABY J]

IDRIVE - I have 2 words for you. 1) SHUTTHEFUCKU 2)P. This is an intelligent debate, of course w/ a few things tossed in for good humor. Do NOT knock some1 for their beliefs - say what yours are and leave it at that. I do not know you - and right now I'd rather not. Despite the fact that some1 can say "I am a Lutheran" but does not know how a Lutheran differs from a Presbyterian does not mean u make personal attacks. I know more about religion and the bible than a lot of devout Christians and have never met one that can go toe to toe with me, but I always repspect their view. Post all you want, just be adult about it. JAIMECBR900 has offered more COHERENT thought in the religion forums before you even knew what this site was - this is not me and his 1st dance, and we have ALWAYS respected each other even though we disagree - you should do the same. Leave gun talk out of it. If he is one thing, it's CONSISTENT and that's more than I can say for a lot of Christians.

** insert smart ass comment that will be ignored here **

[BABY J]

EDIT

[Hulud]

IDRIVE - I have 2 words for you. 1) SHUTTHEFUCKU 2)P. This is an intelligent debate. Do NOT knock some1 for their beliefs - say what yours are and leave it at that. I do not know you - and right now I'd rather not. Despite the fact that some1 can say "I am a Lutheran" but does not know how a Lutheran differs from a Presbyterian does not mean u make personal attacks. I know more about religion and the bible than a lot of devout Christians and have never met one that can go toe to toe with me, but I always repspect their view. Post all you want, just be adult about it. JAIMECBR900 has offered more COHERENT thought in the religion forums before you even knew what this site was - this is not me and his 1st dance, and we have ALWAYS respected each other even though we disagree - you should do the same. Leave gun talk out of it. If he is one thing, it's CONSISTENT and that's more than I can say for a lot of Christians.

** insert smart ass comment that will be ignored here **

i hate you baby j, taking the words out of my mouth (again)

[{X}Echo419]

here
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.”

—Ephesians 6:5-6

but i wasnt even referring to christianity being ok with slavery

I would think of that as more of a metaphore(sp). think about it; a. back then slaves probally couldn't read. b. Christians were slaves themselves. I think that particular verse should be looked @ as an example of how to serve God.

[BABY J]

LOLR. Kids. Cute.

[idriveasloweclipse]

all I can really say is I am old enough to own a gun

[Hulud]

I would think of that as more of a metaphore(sp). think about it; a. back then slaves probally couldn't read. b. Christians were slaves themselves. I think that particular verse should be looked @ as an example of how to serve God.

slavery back then is not what it was in the 1800s here

it was not by race.

that quote i used really had nothing to do with this topic anyways

[Jaimecbr900]

Don't try to push your beliefs or anything......I don't have much to say other than you are a typical christian fighting for a lost cause. Keep defending your "religion" and assuming things about people you know nothing about. It is not your fault though, you have inhereted your ignorance by "believing". I am old enough to own a gun, don't really know where your going with that. I am not going to "ask around" I am sure you have plenty of boyfriends on here who are riding your nuts and ready to support you. DOn't be that guy.

You're a funny young man. You're spunky, I give you that.

Ironically enough, before I could even reply to you.....Baby J (who has very much different position with me on this subject) has just put you in your place about your ignorance.

Bottomline is that you should try and LEARN from these discussions and when so equipped interject with some wisdom of your own to make others think. THAT is what a semi-intelligent debate amongst adults is about. You wanna be a part of it, cool. Just don't come to an adult debate with childish comments. Doesn't work and will only serve to confirm your status on the maturity tree.

BTW, if you are 20 yrs old.....you are indeed NOT old enough to own a gun. Maybe a rifle, but not a gun. You wanna debate me on that?

[{X}Echo419]

slavery back then is not what it was in the 1800s here

it was not by race.

that quote i used really had nothing to do with this topic anyways

I know. I wasn't saying that.

[idriveasloweclipse]

Ok your right, I can't legally own a handgun. No debate. You are more educated than me on religion. I have to go take finals now. I am sorry I have interrupted a serious conversation on religion. I am known for blurting anti- religious remarks. Sorry guys I will try to stay out of your debates. You are all obviously aquaintances.

[Jaimecbr900]

Alright, back on topic.

Baby J, question:

How can you say it's not a big deal that Jesus died for our sins, sins BTW that HE didn't commit?

Think about it though.....if you had a son.....only one son.....would you voluntarily send him to suffer and die in order to prove a point? How hard a decision would that be for you? Could you do it at all?

I understand your point about being omnipotent and therefore in your eyes that minimizes the risk.......but could you do it? Send your ONLY son, whom you love, to die for the sins of someone else whom at that time didn't even appreciate the grandure of the gesture??? Think about it.

[BABY J]

Sure I would do it - I am God and can raise him. EASY decision.

[Jaimecbr900]

Sure I would do it - I am God and can raise him. EASY decision.

Easy decision to send your only son to SUFFER and be KILLED???? Even if you know you can ressurect him AFTER he's suffered and been KILLED???? I wouldn't let my son near a dull butter knife, let alone send him off to die...on purpose....knowing that he was going to suffer......for someone else's mistakes......absolutely not. I would go in his place, but to send him would mean a much greater sacrifice.......hence his point.

Come on, even you have a heart. That is not only a difficult decision, but also a selfless one to prove a point.

People who don't believe often talk about "proof". What more proof could someone give than his ONLY SON to become flesh and blood and walk among us that he is then tortured and killed and subsequently raised from the dead to prove to the non-believers that it can all be done as he says it can.......what more proof would anyone need?

If somehow someone found remnants of the actual cross where Jesus was crucified onto.......would non-believers suddenly change their minds and believe? Probably not. So, proof is in the eye of the beholder and only makes up the mind of the person who is willing to have their mind changed.

[Jaimecbr900]

I see you Paul........

BTW, I got a phone call about you today......you sure you wanna get on my bad side TODAY...... JP.

[BABY J]

JAIME - you are thinking about it as JAIME sending your son. If I was GOD, I'd send MYSELF my son, ANYTHING! I MEAN I'M GOD!!! That fact alone makes the "sacrifice" not a "sacrifice" at all!

[4dmin]

The main proglem w/ religion is the basis of FEAR... FEAR what you don't know!

If you want to live your life that why thats your business I think that if there was a creator or a god of sort that it's intentions for our exsistence is more then enslavement.

[Jaimecbr900]

JAIME - you are thinking about it as JAIME sending your son. If I was GOD, I'd send MYSELF my son, ANYTHING! I MEAN I'M GOD!!! That fact alone makes the "sacrifice" not a "sacrifice" at all!

Yeah, but regardless it's still a sacrifice.

Even if you give a bum a dollar.....a dollar that is not going to make YOU broke for giving it away.....it's still a sacrifice that YOU are giving to someone else whose misfortunes are not any fault of yours.

So I still don't see where the sacrifice should be made futile just because he's GOD. It's still a sacrifice, right?

[BABY J]

NOTHING is a sacrifice for "God". If there was a God, the ONLY sacrifice that He could TRULY make is to relenquish his power (forever) for the sins of man (whatever those are).

[Jaimecbr900]

The main proglem w/ religion is the basis of FEAR... FEAR what you don't know!

I actually sort of agree with you on this.

This is one of the biggest turn-offs that I had when Joan and I were looking for a church to join. As some of yall know, I was raised Catholic and she Baptist....not the easiest mix to say the least. So we decided that we'd have to go and visit all kinds of different "churches" to see which one we both felt would follow down the same path for US. We must have visited 10 different places from atleast 10 different denominations. The one we belong to now is the one that we both literally looked at each other during a sermon and said, "this is the one"....and we've been members since.

One thing I noticed while visiting different churches was that sometimes the leader, even with good intentions, would turn people off by shouting and pushing their fire and brimstone type of sermons and messages. You didn't feel welcomed to learn, you felt OBLIGATED. I didn't like that at all. If I give, I give out of my own accord...my own will. If I have a question, I don't want you to have to shout and sweat to give me the answer.

So I agree that FEAR is not a proper way to get a religious point across. I do however see how sometimes the truth or reality can be construed as "fear" because it is in fact scary.

Kinda like the day you give your kids the car keys when they're 16 yrs old. You may tell them that if he/she does this or that they may end up DEAD. That's a fact. Scary fact, but a fact.

Same with churches. Sometimes in their effort to convey the message that there is a right side and a wrong side of the fence......they think they have to yell at you and scare the crap out of you into believing it. That to me is not the way it was ever meant to be broadcast. But that's just me.

[Jaimecbr900]

NOTHING is a sacrifice for "God". If there was a God, the ONLY sacrifice that He could TRULY make is to relenquish his power (forever) for the sins of man (whatever those are).

To whom?

[BABY J]

To whom?

To Brett. LOL - no, to no1. To just give up being God. Or maybe a sacrifice could have been not resurrecting His Son. As it sits RIGHT NOW, there has not been a sacrifice. There was a parade - a SHOW. A facade.

[Jaimecbr900]

To Brett. LOL - no, to no1.

I dunno....Brett would have a big orgy or something and make everybody get lambo doors on their cars......LOL. JP.

Well, but to "relinquish" his power he'd by definition have to give it up to someone, right?

To just give up being God. Or maybe a sacrifice could have been not resurrecting His Son.

Well, but how would that of proven the point that HE is all powerful, and all knowing if he couldn't even save his own son....just as he'd said and his son had said BEFORE he died?

In other words, you can't prove to someone that you can turn stones into bread without actually doing it atleast once, right?

[4dmin]

I actually sort of agree with you on this.

This is one of the biggest turn-offs that I had when Joan and I were looking for a church to join. As some of yall know, I was raised Catholic and she Baptist....not the easiest mix to say the least. So we decided that we'd have to go and visit all kinds of different "churches" to see which one we both felt would follow down the same path for US. We must have visited 10 different places from atleast 10 different denominations. The one we belong to now is the one that we both literally looked at each other during a sermon and said, "this is the one"....and we've been members since.

One thing I noticed while visiting different churches was that sometimes the leader, even with good intentions, would turn people off by shouting and pushing their fire and brimstone type of sermons and messages. You didn't feel welcomed to learn, you felt OBLIGATED. I didn't like that at all. If I give, I give out of my own accord...my own will. If I have a question, I don't want you to have to shout and sweat to give me the answer.

So I agree that FEAR is not a proper way to get a religious point across. I do however see how sometimes the truth or reality can be construed as "fear" because it is in fact scary.

Kinda like the day you give your kids the car keys when they're 16 yrs old. You may tell them that if he/she does this or that they may end up DEAD. That's a fact. Scary fact, but a fact.

Same with churches. Sometimes in their effort to convey the message that there is a right side and a wrong side of the fence......they think they have to yell at you and scare the crap out of you into believing it. That to me is not the way it was ever meant to be broadcast. But that's just me.

ya FEAR kinda died this century when we finally started exercising FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND THOUGHT... its easy to say you don't agree w/ the church today; 200 years ago you would be burned on the cross

this is why you see alot of southern churches move the the whole YOUR GOING TO HELL stance which was still very popular in the 80's to hey come to church and have FUN!!!

[Jaimecbr900]

ya FEAR kinda died this century when we finally started exercising FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND THOUGHT... its easy to say you don't agree w/ the church today; 200 years ago you would be burned on the cross

this is why you see alot of southern churches move the the whole YOUR GOING TO HELL stance which was still very popular in the 80's to hey come to church and have FUN!!!

Well, don't go too far.....you still get lynched and dragged thru the streets in SOME parts of the world for being a Christian.....White.....Brown....American....all sorts of reasons.....

But I understand what you're saying.

BTW, just so yall know....."church" is far more than the brick and mortar that is seen from the street. A lot of churches do a ton of humanitarian and community aid out of those big brick and mortar buildings. They just don't call the AJC to publish it like a corporation would. So just because you don't always hear about it or read about doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Trust me, I've been involved and still do quite a few "community projects" and different things to help people I don't even know and we do it for our own well being, satisfaction, and purpose. Again, just because the masses don't see people out there building homes for the homeless or serving at a soup kitchen (we do both out of my church BTW ), it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It most certainly does.

[{X}Echo419]

To whom?

I think he means like in Superman 2, or was it 3 when Superman gives up his power and those 3 criminals get busted out of that mirror in space. which btw is a real shitty "prison" to just float in space if some pathetic sound waves can bust it.

[4dmin]

Well, don't go too far.....you still get lynched and dragged thru the streets in SOME parts of the world for being a Christian.....White.....Brown....American....all sorts of reasons.....

But I understand what you're saying.

BTW, just so yall know....."church" is far more than the brick and mortar that is seen from the street. A lot of churches do a ton of humanitarian and community aid out of those big brick and mortar buildings. They just don't call the AJC to publish it like a corporation would. So just because you don't always hear about it or read about doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Trust me, I've been involved and still do quite a few "community projects" and different things to help people I don't even know and we do it for our own well being, satisfaction, and purpose. Again, just because the masses don't see people out there building homes for the homeless or serving at a soup kitchen (we do both out of my church BTW ), it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It most certainly does.

Though this is true i will go to say churches do alot more for their church/members then outside community. Sorry but multi million dollar facilities and salary employees make it very hard for me to see that this is a TAX FREE enviroment of worship only

If i was christian my family would study the bible at home and interpet it for ourselves; we do send our children to school to read there is no reason not to use our public education.

[AtifSajid]

I really didnt want to post in these threads anymore, but since I have nothing else to do...

i mean if there was a god why would he let the holocaust happen, or the crusades, or what the egyptians did to the jews?

Many of the questions posted on IA are from guys/girls that arent into religion that much, so there level of thought/existence of the unseen hasnt hit that level yet. Like I can explain some things to you here, but everyone will be like wtf is this guy talking about, and some will be like true. Its almost where you have to start with basic beliefs and then let it soak in before you go more in depth, but even then if you dont want to belief you will not.

Most of the things that go on in your daily lives are like tests that God puts you threw(and always remember, when I write GOD it means the most powerful, unkown being on the world, not anything else. To me God has no siblings, nor has he given any of his powers to anyone)(Prophets are different and a different subject)

So back to the tests...if you follow the good path and in a personal way you pass these tests with the help of God then you will succeed in life. I can start listing examples, but it will be long..

For many religion isnt even somewhere to be or follow. Its a way to calm your mind and your spirit, that way you live a more peaceful life. But when you get into your religion where it starts calming you and gives you peace, then the other aspects of your religion fall into play automatically..thats how beautiful God made religion.

In Islam it say something similiar to this..if you a take a step towards God, he runs towards you. If you ask for forgiveness, he will forgive you.

You all know all this. I shouldnt even have to preach this. This is written in the Bible, Quran, Torah.

Im just talking to you guys that dont believe in religion..what harm is it going to do if you did? Really ask yourself...what will happen if I believe in God??

You know what your answer will be?? Nothing..aight then, why dont you try. Just try. I mean most people are afraid because they think they are so bad, that it scares them to turn towards God. Honestly, try it, and I bet it will feel scary at first, and then you will LOVE THE SHIT OUT OF IT.

Aight I could go on, but Im done here..

Islam turned me off, b/c of it's leaders/beliefs/killing/terrorism/etc.

This dude is a fucken dumbass, like I have always stated.

ps. if i ever convert to anything becoming Muslim sounds the most appealing.

That was funny you said that, because while I was reading your response that ran across my mind. And there you go and post it.

[BABY J]

Just try huh? Just try to believe in WHICH God?

[Jaimecbr900]

Im just talking to you guys that dont believe in religion..what harm is it going to do if you did? Really ask yourself...what will happen if I believe in God??

You know what your answer will be?? Nothing..aight then, why dont you try. Just try. I mean most people are afraid because they think they are so bad, that it scares them to turn towards God. Honestly, try it, and I bet it will feel scary at first, and then you will LOVE THE SHIT OUT OF IT.

Look at Atif preaching it......Word!!!!...you go Atif.

I've asked the same question myself several times.

It would seem to me that if I was given a chance to bet on something in which I was convinced there was no chance of me losing my money, even if I was wrong.........why wouldn't I bet? I'd be pretty stupid NOT to bet based on those odds, right?

Same thing for the people who don't believe in God.

If you're so sure there's never going to be a judgement day for you, and someone offered you a way to if there WAS you wouldn't be condemned for not believing......why would you pass that up? It's a win-win for you, isn't it? If you believe, you may get saved. If there is no God, even if you believed nothing is going to happen to you. What's there to lose?

[4dmin]

Look at Atif preaching it......Word!!!!...you go Atif.

I've asked the same question myself several times.

It would seem to me that if I was given a chance to bet on something in which I was convinced there was no chance of me losing my money, even if I was wrong.........why wouldn't I bet? I'd be pretty stupid NOT to bet based on those odds, right?

Same thing for the people who don't believe in God.

If you're so sure there's never going to be a judgement day for you, and someone offered you a way to if there WAS you wouldn't be condemned for not believing......why would you pass that up? It's a win-win for you, isn't it? If you believe, you may get saved. If there is no God, even if you believed nothing is going to happen to you. What's there to lose?

I totally understand what you guys are saying but i think you don't understand the point of not beliving... i'll take the both of you as an example:

Jaime: your a christian, Atif is a muslim, you don't belive he will be in heaven b/c he isn't christian

Atif: your a muslim, Jaime is a christian, you belive he won't be in heaven but he can go to heaven eventually once they accept Islam; even after death (this is my broad understanding)

So there is the issue for those who are not religious... what to pick and choose from? Alot of people think they are the chosen ones and their belief system is right. i know the stance of many is that they do not believe in anything but if we are wrong once shown the way who wouldn't accept it. Its easy to point a finger and say try it, but again how many times have you tried another or lack of religion... there are 1000s of different faiths. Science even in essence is faith in something .

We are humans like to tinker over the words (scriptures) instead of the ideas. Even faith in science is an idea. To me thats good enough, i know my religion doesn't say jaime is going to hell for being christian and atif is going to hell for being muslim... i think you choose where you are going through actions and guilt; we are living our heaven/hells day after day.

[Jaimecbr900]

Science even in essence is faith in something .

I'm going to save this little tidbit for discussions at a future date.....

[4dmin]

I'm going to save this little tidbit for discussions at a future date.....

don't misunderstand my choice of words... you can have faith that the morning newspaper is going to be delivered... but for conversation sake anyone who has a belief in something has faith in it; whether it be atheism, christianity, islam, etc.

[Hulud]

I really didnt want to post in these threads anymore, but since I have nothing else to do...



Many of the questions posted on IA are from guys/girls that arent into religion that much, so there level of thought/existence of the unseen hasnt hit that level yet. Like I can explain some things to you here, but everyone will be like wtf is this guy talking about, and some will be like true. Its almost where you have to start with basic beliefs and then let it soak in before you go more in depth, but even then if you dont want to belief you will not.

Most of the things that go on in your daily lives are like tests that God puts you threw(and always remember, when I write GOD it means the most powerful, unkown being on the world, not anything else. To me God has no siblings, nor has he given any of his powers to anyone)(Prophets are different and a different subject)

So back to the tests...if you follow the good path and in a personal way you pass these tests with the help of God then you will succeed in life. I can start listing examples, but it will be long..

For many religion isnt even somewhere to be or follow. Its a way to calm your mind and your spirit, that way you live a more peaceful life. But when you get into your religion where it starts calming you and gives you peace, then the other aspects of your religion fall into play automatically..thats how beautiful God made religion.

In Islam it say something similiar to this..if you a take a step towards God, he runs towards you. If you ask for forgiveness, he will forgive you.

You all know all this. I shouldnt even have to preach this. This is written in the Bible, Quran, Torah.

Im just talking to you guys that dont believe in religion..what harm is it going to do if you did? Really ask yourself...what will happen if I believe in God??

You know what your answer will be?? Nothing..aight then, why dont you try. Just try. I mean most people are afraid because they think they are so bad, that it scares them to turn towards God. Honestly, try it, and I bet it will feel scary at first, and then you will LOVE THE SHIT OUT OF IT.

Aight I could go on, but Im done here..

well you cant just go out and be like "ok tried and i found god"

i tried, found nothing

its like telling you to believe in santa, you tried as a kid (and prolly did for a while) but when you grew up and realized that it was not true, its not something you can just go try to find and voila (sp?) hes there

disclaimer: i was not referring to anyones god as santa it was just an analogy
(since i know someones gonna flip their shit over that)

This dude is a fucken dumbass, like I have always stated.

thats why i choose to ignore comments like that, theres no point in discussing anything with someone of that ignorance

[Hulud]

You are all obviously aquaintances.

no we are not

i have never met jaime or atif

ive met echo, shagwagen and baby j (very briefly)

[AtifSajid]

Your right Paul in the sense that you say that Islam believes this about Christians and vice versa..

but you gotta find facts man..you know my background, so I shouldnt even discuss this with you, i need others..cause you know whats up.

[GIXXERDK]

I dont want to read everyones posts but I'll tell you how I feel. Born and raised by Christian parents. Became a self proclaimed atheist, why? I wont get too into it, just the main points.

I feel that we as humans are not advanced enough in technology to know everything about our history or our bodies. A century later, our blood line will look back to today and say that we are stupid.

The bible is a BIG joke. So many errors and so many sections are missing, because they are banned. There are documents that say that accuse jesus of several things.

Virgin Mary? Bullshit, she had an affair.