Scripture a day (Islam Edition)

[Sinfix_15]

Surah 8:12

I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

actual text -

Other translation from Sahih international

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."




You will find many references to decapitation or beheading in the Quran. I'm sure anyone who follows the news is familiar with the common practice of decapitation by Islamic extremist. Is this a misunderstanding? or just the literal interpretation of Islam?

[David88vert]

Surah 8:12

I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

actual text -

Other translation from Sahih international

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."




You will find many references to decapitation or beheading in the Quran. I'm sure anyone who follows the news is familiar with the common practice of decapitation by Islamic extremist. Is this a misunderstanding? or just the literal interpretation of Islam?

Doesn't "Surah Al-Anfal" concern the spoils of war? Back when it was written, wasn't it normal to kill your enemies if you captured them, and they were not believers? Am I missing something - I'm not seeing what is controversial when you take it in context of the whole Surah.

[Sinfix_15]

Doesn't "Surah Al-Anfal" concern the spoils of war? Back when it was written, wasn't it normal to kill your enemies if you captured them, and they were not believers? Am I missing something - I'm not seeing what is controversial when you take it in context of the whole Surah.

That is correct. How would you define the perimeters of war through the eyes of a religion? how does a religion declare war? Who is the army in this setting and what justifies any war between them?

Is the war against non-believers? That is how i interpret it and i would assume it is the same way that islamic extremist do as well. The decapitations have not been limited to soldiers of war, just "non-believers". Even in a battle setting, does it not seem odd to endorse beheading and disfigurement? What message does this send?

[David88vert]

That is correct. How would you define the perimeters of war through the eyes of a religion? how does a religion declare war? Who is the army in this setting and what justifies any war between them?

Is the war against non-believers? That is how i interpret it and i would assume it is the same way that islamic extremist do as well. The decapitations have not been limited to soldiers of war, just "non-believers". Even in a battle setting, does it not seem odd to endorse beheading and disfigurement? What message does this send?

If you take it in the context in which it was written, the world was very different and much "smaller". At that point in time, there was little distinction between what constituted a citizen or a soldier. It was considered "normal" for a group conquering another to kill/execute the male citizens back in those times, in that part of the world - and that was not limited to the Muslim/Jewish conflicts. All of Europe, and most of Asia also had these violent tendencies in their cultures as well. The decapitations/executions and severing of limbs was not unusual at that point in history.

When you say that religion is declaring war, it shows that you do not understand the history of the book or the region of which you discuss.
There were two groups - those that followed Mohammed, and believed in his words, and those that did not. Those that did not were "non-believers" obviously, and did not try to live peacefully with Mohammed's followers, so of course, they were the enemy. The actual writings were not made until around 150 years after the death of Mohammed, from what I have read. Up until that time, they were passed down orally from generation to generation.

[Sinfix_15]

If you take it in the context in which it was written, the world was very different and much "smaller". At that point in time, there was little distinction between what constituted a citizen or a soldier. It was considered "normal" for a group conquering another to kill/execute the male citizens back in those times, in that part of the world - and that was not limited to the Muslim/Jewish conflicts. All of Europe, and most of Asia also had these violent tendencies in their cultures as well. The decapitations/executions and severing of limbs was not unusual at that point in history.

When you say that religion is declaring war, it shows that you do not understand the history of the book or the region of which you discuss.
There were two groups - those that followed Mohammed, and believed in his words, and those that did not. Those that did not were "non-believers" obviously, and did not try to live peacefully with Mohammed's followers, so of course, they were the enemy. The actual writings were not made until around 150 years after the death of Mohammed, from what I have read. Up until that time, they were passed down orally from generation to generation.

Saying it was normal for the time doesnt make it right and isnt a suitable defense. Comparing it to the crimes of other religions is not a defense either. I agree that this type of behavior is far too common in the entire religious spectrum, but for the sake of this particular debate, i am asking for answers in defense of Islam specifically.

Does beheading still happen today? Does disfigurement still happen today?

If a US soldier beheaded and disfigured an enemy combatant, what would happen to them?

[David88vert]

Saying it was normal for the time doesnt make it right and isnt a suitable defense. Comparing it to the crimes of other religions is not a defense either. I agree that this type of behavior is far too common in the entire religious spectrum, but for the sake of this particular debate, i am asking for answers in defense of Islam specifically.

Does beheading still happen today? Does disfigurement still happen today?

If a US soldier beheaded and disfigured an enemy combatant, what would happen to them?

Do you realize that American law does not apply to non-Americans on foreign shores and that we did not have World Court prior to the Twentieth Century?
You cannot apply modern law and morals to ancient times.

[Sinfix_15]

Do you realize that American law does not apply to non-Americans on foreign shores and that we did not have World Court prior to the Twentieth Century?
You cannot apply modern law and morals to ancient times.

I cant say i agree with that. Also, the reason we're even having this debate to begin with is because the customs of ancient times are still happening today. You still see people get beheaded daily. To me that would be the same as seeing someone get crucified. I dont believe any of these actions were ever acceptable. The fact that religious texts deemed these actions acceptable at any point in time should cast a dark cloud over all religion. You're claiming that these were war time rules but how often throughout history is religion the cause of war.


Moving on from this particular scripture after this.

So you acknowledge that muslims endorsed the beheading and disfigurement of enemy combatants at some point in history and that in modern day time some portion of muslims still practice this belief of beheading and disfiguring enemies? Consider that a rhetorical question, because there's no way to deny it. What i'm looking for is justification for this belief.