Close-minded Christians?

[1zach4]

I'm sick of people on here labelling Christians as "Close-minded"

Why are we considered close-minded? Why are you not close-minded? What makes you more open than Christians?

It just pisses me off because the people that call us close-minded spend all of their time on here putting Christians down, and never actually look at their own lives and try to make some sense of it and think about what might actually happen once they die. Have any of you ever thought about a little something called "eternity"?

I ask all of you to look up some people such as Pastor Johnny Hunt of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, or Tony Nolan of FBCW and TNT Ministries, or Dr. Ergun Caner of Liberty University, or Josh McDowell, and David Nasser.

Look up one or two of them and see what they have to say and then come back and let me know what you think.

Until then, please quit with this close-minded crap, i'm sorry the path to Heaven is narrow and the path to destruction is wide...doesn't mean you have to call me close-minded because you think it is unfair that there is only one way to get into Heaven. God is just, and he wouldn't be a just God if he let just anyone in through any religion now would He?

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.

[Killer]

I hear ya man.... though i get the analogy it still doesn't quite fit... but the devil always finds a way to tell u your wrong about Christianity... It can come from people, or life experciences... But that's just another way to prove you're right... When us Christians start speaking the truth, or doing what God wants us to do... the satan is always gonna try to stop us.... so just keep on keepin on man.. God bless!

[The Yousef]

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.

we'll all find out sooner or later if your ''theory'' is correct also

yousef

[collins]

lol yousef. you crazy mofo. see, you need to check out people such as our club.. if you call us closed minded, then, wow. lol we've got me and jm on the christian side (no we're not hard core, but we do have our beliefs), yousef on the muslim side, josh, karen, and mikey (mikey's not actually inthe club, but he hangs all the time with us) oh the jewish side, and we all get along as one big happy family. we accept each other's beliefs and leave it at that. if someone wants to join in on any given religion, they'll find their way to it.

[malfeas99]

If you believe that any religion gets you into heaven, then just think about your little idea this way: If any religion leads to Heaven, then every road in America should lead to the same point. Next time you get stuck in traffic on 75 North, or 285...just get off at the next exit and go the opposite way because if your "theory" is correct then you should get home going 75 south just as fast as you would 75 north.

The fact that you actually think such a corollary is legitimate shows me that you have far more serious problems than being narrow-minded.

You just can't think, period.

[tony]

The fact that you actually think such a corollary is legitimate shows me that you have far more serious problems than being narrow-minded.

You just can't think, period.

I have to agree here, I dont criticize christians but damn if a good majority arent the most closed minded people I've ever met. Quick to cast stones with glass houses, I grew up christian so I've been there. Many believe that their way of life is the only way of life, that they are the righteous and the rest will just burn in hell because they dont have the same faith.

Its so funny because I've never questioned god but I do question those christians that feel they have the right to point fingers. Do you know my relationship with god? No, then you cant judge what I do.

In all honesty I look at the whole heaven and hell thing as a metaphor rather than a place. I may not be in church every sunday but if I leave this earth KNOWING I made a difference in someones life that was positive, especially my son then my soul will rest peacefully regardless of what is waiting for me on the other side, it really pisses me off when people try to use heaven and hell as a scare tactic to get people in church and pay tithes.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not attacking you personally but you brought up the subject, this is my response.

[1zach4]

thanks killer...I spent a lot of time in prayer last night and before I even read what you wrote that is what I felt God was telling me.

Even though a majority of the people on here will call other Christians close-minded and ignorant, I have to keep on trying to get the Word out to them because all of the negative feedback is just Satan trying to keep me from telling people about Jesus. If even one person on this board read something I wrote and it planted a seed in their mind about Jesus that He later cultivated and saved that person...I'd be completely satsfied

[1zach4]

i'm not saying my example is "legitimate" it is just an analogy to get people to think...

telling me that I can't think, and looking at my analogy that way shows me that you weren't thinking.

[malfeas99]

i'm not saying my example is "legitimate" it is just an analogy to get people to think...

telling me that I can't think, and looking at my analogy that way shows me that you weren't thinking.

It is a completely fallacious analogy.

You are comparing physical roads to the tenets of different religions. Using your example, obviously not all roads lead to the same place, but did it occur to you that perhaps there's more than one destination, beyond your heaven and your hell?

No, it didn't, because you thought there was a hell before Jesus, and that everyone went there, because before him it was REALLY HARD to go to heaven.

There's nothing worse than a stupid zealot.

[1zach4]

Heaven and Hell is not just a "scare tactic"

People that call it a scare tactic are the ones that just can't seem to fathom that God, being such a loving, just, and righteous God, would actually condemn someone to eternity away from Him in Hell.

If you call it a scare tactic it is because you don't want to believe that if you live a "good life" you can still go to Hell. There have been Nobel Peace Prize winners that were not Christians when they died...Ghandi was not a Christian...other great people throughout history were not Christian...guess where they are right now? Hell...simple as that. Anyone that has ever lived throughout history is still alive...either in Heaven, or Hell. Get used to it.

[tony]

Heaven and Hell is not just a "scare tactic"

People that call it a scare tactic are the ones that just can't seem to fathom that God, being such a loving, just, and righteous God, would actually condemn someone to eternity away from Him in Hell.

If you call it a scare tactic it is because you don't want to believe that if you live a "good life" you can still go to Hell. There have been Nobel Peace Prize winners that were not Christians when they died...Ghandi was not a Christian...other great people throughout history were not Christian...guess where they are right now? Hell...simple as that. Anyone that has ever lived throughout history is still alive...either in Heaven, or Hell. Get used to it.

You proved my point with that post right there.. first who are you to say if they are in heaven or hell? You only know what you have read, did you know the man? Did you know his relationship with god? No, and just the fact that you say "get used to it" only proves how closed minded you are because to you there is no other way.

[1zach4]

Do some more research malfeas before you call me a "stupid" zealot.

You won't be laughing if you're not on the right side of your salvation when Jesus returns or you die

[malfeas99]

Do some more research malfeas before you call me a "stupid" zealot.

You won't be laughing if you're not on the right side of your salvation when Jesus returns or you die

As has been demonstrated in other threads, I am far more well versed in theology (both in your own religion and others) than you.

This only makes your position more embarassing for yourself.

I'm done with you, I could get a better conversation from my dog.

Beware, 1zach4, the Keebler elves are the true lords and saviors, they are the only true path to heaven! Laugh now, but you won't be giggling when you're burning in the fires of their cookie ovens! How do I know this? Because this book 'The Keebler Elves Are Awesome' says so!

Sound stupid? That's how you sound to everyone else. Get used to -that-, poindexter.

[quickdodge®]

Goddamn(ooops) 1Zach4, shut the fucc up will you! I'veproven to you time and time again that you are close-minded and I am not. Does all this prayer that you do inhibit your reading skills..or maybe your comprehension skills? Hey! I think Holy Rollers car club is calling you. Later, QD.

[1zach4]

i'm going to leave on this note right here:

Jesus Christ is Lord, and the only way to Heaven is through Him. If you try any other way you will come up terribly short. My faith will get me into Heaven, and I will pray for the rest of you.

[quickdodge®]

i'm going to leave on this note right here:

Jesus Christ is Lord, and the only way to Heaven is through Him. If you try any other way you will come up terribly short. My faith will get me into Heaven, and I will pray for the rest of you.

I don't need your prayer, dude. Later, QD.

[trini_gsr]

i'm new to IA and have been reading through these forums...i gotta comment on this one...

now i grew up as a christian and i still accept the Bible as a valuable spiritual guide. but the idea that the bible is the ONLY way to 'salvation', when you honestly look at it with a critical mind, is a pretty ridiculous notion. how can one honestly believe something as boundless and infinite as God would have to be can be described in ONLY one way?

look at how many languages and cultures the world has. i'm black...so looking at it from an african perspective, for example, there are some things that some african tribes experience in their cosmology/spirituality that can't even be described correctly with English words. stuff that we can't even understand or relate to about what they believe, simply because we grew up in a Western society built upon western philosophical ideas (this is another topic by itself). and vice versa. the idea of Jesus seems as ludicrous to them as voodoo and ancestor worship might seem to us. but talk to a christian about prayer to God or these ppl about prayer to an ancestor, and they'll believe in it same way, and have experiences to back up their belief. honestly speaking...it's mad close-minded and ignorant to feel like your view is right and they are wrong.

that's like being in your house and thinking you can describe all of outside by just looking out of one window. You might see trees, someone looking elsewhere might see mountains, someone else with a different view might see a lake. But each of these 'views' are just pieces of the entire picture...we'll never get to see or understand it entirely from our frame of reference (being inside the house).

the thing to do is use the tools that work best for you in your context...and not to be afraid to use new ones if the need arises...all while keeping true to yourself.

[metalman]

i'm new to IA and have been reading through these forums...i gotta comment on this one...

now i grew up as a christian and i still accept the Bible as a valuable spiritual guide. but the idea that the bible is the ONLY way to 'salvation', when you honestly look at it with a critical mind, is a pretty ridiculous notion. how can one honestly believe something as boundless and infinite as God would have to be can be described in ONLY one way?

look at how many languages and cultures the world has. i'm black...so looking at it from an african perspective, for example, there are some things that some african tribes experience in their cosmology/spirituality that can't even be described correctly with English words. stuff that we can't even understand or relate to about what they believe, simply because we grew up in a Western society built upon western philosophical ideas (this is another topic by itself). and vice versa. the idea of Jesus seems as ludicrous to them as voodoo and ancestor worship might seem to us. but talk to a christian about prayer to God or these ppl about prayer to an ancestor, and they'll believe in it same way, and have experiences to back up their belief. honestly speaking...it's mad close-minded and ignorant to feel like your view is right and they are wrong.

that's like being in your house and thinking you can describe all of outside by just looking out of one window. You might see trees, someone looking elsewhere might see mountains, someone else with a different view might see a lake. But each of these 'views' are just pieces of the entire picture...we'll never get to see or understand it entirely from our frame of reference (being inside the house).

the thing to do is use the tools that work best for you in your context...and not to be afraid to use new ones if the need arises...all while keeping true to yourself.

The fact that there are many other gods is no surprise. The reasoning that because a religion exists therefore it is valid is also flawed. The fact that jungle natives pray to frogs, their ancestors, a tree stump or some god named dagon, baal, or billybob is proof of only one thing...idolatry and false gods exist. This is evidence of the Bible being correct in that the devil has been working hard eveywhere to decieve humans. Those gods have no saving power. Although the names differ with cultures there are commonalities shared by most all those gods. Make no mistake, although many of those names are just varieties of the same false god, virtually none are of the Creator. The foundation of Christianity is that there is but one real living Creator who made the universe and its inhabitants. He does have many different names but dagon, baal, billybob and all the others are not Him. His creatures either acknowledge him or not. Worship of creation instead of the Creator is itself idolotry.

In fact if you study carefully there are really only two paths a human being can be on, regardless of their original religion or lack of it. They (we all) are either on the path to eternal life or the highway to eternal death.

[trini_gsr]

The fact that there are many other gods is no surprise. The reasoning that because a religion exists therefore it is valid is also flawed. The fact that jungle natives pray to frogs, their ancestors, a tree stump or some god named dagon, baal, or billybob is proof of only one thing...idolatry and false gods exist. This is evidence of the Bible being correct in that the devil has been working hard eveywhere to decieve humans. Those gods have no saving power. Although the names differ with cultures there are commonalities shared by most all those gods. Make no mistake, although many of those names are just varieties of the same false god, virtually none are of the Creator. The foundation of Christianity is that there is but one real living Creator who made the universe and its inhabitants. He does have many different names but dagon, baal, billybob and all the others are not Him. His creatures either acknowledge him or not. Worship of creation instead of the Creator is itself idolotry.

good answer, i actually agree with you partially on this. i never said and i certainly do not believe that every single religion on the planet is valid. the key is to look at them objectively and critically (the Bible actually instructs to do this) to see if they make sense. and when i say objectively, it means that you set aside your biases and notions and look at ALL the FACTS before judging.

the idea of one creator creating the universe, or even the general concept of salvation of the soul, is neither unique or even original to christianity. some of those very same 'jungle natives' believe the same thing, and have been believing it long before hebrews walked the earth or moses decided to write anything down. even the idea/word 'worship' as we understand it is a very loose and probably inaccurate way of describing their respect/reverence for their 'tree stumps' or 'frogs'. it's a LOT more complicated than that...this is the same ignorant attitude that drove the Crusades, the Dark Ages, and even the institution of slavery.

In fact if you study carefully there are really only two paths a human being can be on, regardless of their original religion or lack of it. They (we all) are either on the path to eternal life or the highway to eternal death.

I agree 100% on this. but remember, the goal of trodding the path of righteousness is not the destination, but making the journey itself

[metalman]

the idea of one creator creating the universe, or even the general concept of salvation of the soul, is neither unique or even original to christianity. some of those very same 'jungle natives' believe the same thing, and have been believing it long before hebrews walked the earth or moses decided to write anything down. even the idea/word 'worship' as we understand it is a very loose and probably inaccurate way of describing their respect/reverence for their 'tree stumps' or 'frogs'. it's a LOT more complicated than that...this is the same ignorant attitude that drove the Crusades, the Dark Ages, and even the institution of slavery.

It is true that peoples have existed and been "discovered" that indeed had some understanding of the Creator and worshipped Him. This is not common however and in fact is extremely rare. Some people for example, think that american indians worshiped the "great spirit"...in fact they like the people in the time of Noahs flood worshiped the creature much more then the Creator.

As for the Dark Ages & Crusades, the ignorance that fueled those times was in fact the papacy/catholcism. It was the church that kept people from even reading the Bible (punishable by death in fact) and kept people ignorant and in the dark. The church efforts to wipe out heritics and "unbelievers" led to much death....tens of millions. Some historians say as many as 300 million.

[tony]

I'll leave the thread with a quote from Tupac:

"We probably in Hell already, our dumb asses not knowin
Everybody kissin ass to go to heaven ain't goin"

[joesblk_teg]

I'll leave the thread with a quote from Tupac:

"We probably in Hell already, our dumb asses not knowin
Everybody kissin ass to go to heaven ain't goin"

im just entering this thread and you quote tupac
if thats the most scholarly source you have your credentials
on this topic are really oblique

[1zach4]

If you are not Christian then i'm afraid you do

[quickdodge®]

Who said I wasn't?

Even if I am or not..no I don't. Later, QD.

[1zach4]

I'll be praying for you

[quickdodge®]

What happened to you leaving this thread?

Is your "faith" telling you not to? Your work is not done until you convince these lost souls to join us. Pray for them, my child, lest thoust doesn'st knowest what the hell is goingst on.

Later, QD.

[1zach4]

once again...i'll pray for you, because you need it

[malfeas99]

Question: How would praying for someone help? What precisely are you praying for?

I mean, the only thing you could pray is that someone would 'come to their senses' and accept your narrowly and strictly defined cosmology.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If God is the kind of person that would take someone like you into heaven, and send someone like Ghandi to hell, then I think I'll go ahead and pick hell just on principle.

I do not want to spend eternity with your inanity.

Actually, my hell may just end up being to join you in heaven, and have to deal with you and people like you every day, all day, for the rest of eternity.

Fuck.

[metalman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If God is the kind of person that would take someone like you into heaven, and send someone like Ghandi to hell, then I think I'll go ahead and pick hell just on principle.

I do not want to spend eternity with your inanity.

Although I understand some of your sentiment and even agree on some level I must say this....

Not to say I know or have any idea where anyone here will end up, I'm not the Judge....God is...thats the neat thing about God...he doesnt force anyone to live with Him in heaven, if you (or I) dont want to go there you (or I) won't..you'll (we'll) end up in the opposite "place"...right where you (or we) wanted to go and chose to be.

There is only one thing we all are forced to do whether we think so or not...thats choose. We can choose life, we can choose death...theres absolutely no way to do neither.

That being said, if youre bothered by many of the professed "christians" as I often am, take comfort, don't be distracted by them, most people who "profess" Christianity won't be in heaven...thats what the good Book teaches.

PEACE

[C22H19N3O4]

Dear Jesus Junkie (aka Zach),
Please read the following quote very carefully:
"The man who is always worrying about whether or not his soul would be damned generally has a soul that isn’t worth a damn." Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

[1zach4]

Dear pharm teg,
I don't worry about whether or not my soul would be damned, because I know that when I die, I will be in Heaven for eternity with my Savior Jesus Christ.

and Malfeas99...your insults don't hurt me or shake my faith...so save yourself some time and quit trying to put me down because i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.

[quickdodge®]

i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.

How contradictory. You don't know the truth. You think you know the truth. Remember. You base your "knowledge" on faith, not facts. How conveniently you forget that shit. You don't really know shit. Later, QD.

[malfeas99]

Dear pharm teg,
I don't worry about whether or not my soul would be damned, because I know that when I die, I will be in Heaven for eternity with my Savior Jesus Christ.

and Malfeas99...your insults don't hurt me or shake my faith...so save yourself some time and quit trying to put me down because i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.

You wouldn't need faith if religion was based on fact. I don't know why you even bother making the audacious claim that christianity is somehow 'fact based'. If that were the case, there'd be no faith necessary.

[Hulud]

because i'm a christian and actually know the Truth.

wow now thats fuckin funny as shit

you know the truth why? because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...

you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?

and by the way you've been thinking so highly of yourself i know that i am a better person than you could ever be.

[{X}Echo419]

wow now thats fuckin funny as shit

you know the truth why? because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...

you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?

and by the way you've been thinking so highly of yourself i know that i am a better person than you could ever be.

you could say that about atheists too.

[Hulud]

you could say that about atheists too.

how? whose sayin we know the truth and you dont? just because i dont believe in your god doesnt mean im sayin i knwo the truth

and if your talking about thinking so highly of myself i dont, and i dont judge people like 1zach4 is

*edit* and im not sayin that about all christians just that zach kid

[{X}Echo419]

how? whose sayin we know the truth and you dont? just because i dont believe in your god doesnt mean im sayin i knwo the truth

and if your talking about thinking so highly of myself i dont, and i dont judge people like 1zach4 is

*edit* and im not sayin that about all christians just that zach kid

I wasn't accusing you of anything. it was just a generalization. why get so defensive...

[Jaimecbr900]

I'm not anyone's "keeper" but I feel I should answer a couple of things.

you know the truth why?

It maybe because he believes it.

because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...

Name a single HISTORY book written while the HISTORY was still happening.... Just because a book was written AFTER someone "died" doesn't change the FACT that someone lived, breathed, spoke, walked, preached, etc.....does it? If that's so, then how did you learn about Christopher Columbus? He was long gone by the time you first heard his name, right? So therefore, the HISTORY books that you learned his name and life from in school are they fake? Are they wrong? Were they always written by the SAME author???? Does ANY of that change the FACT that Christopher Columbus was Spanish, Discovered America, and lived???? NOPE.

So therefore the argument that since the Bible has many "authors" it's not valid or accurate doesn't make much sense, now does it? Since we all study HISTORY via data derived from all kinds of sources, places, and times in history itself. Many of the "authors" of books STILL in use today as totally accurate are long ago deceased. Does that make any of the info in the book all of a sudden false......NOPE.

you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?

Again, name a single book written by ANY devine being. Just one.

There isn't a single one. Why? Because all religious books were written by followers and not the leaders. It is up to the reader to believe or not. That is part of the equation. The info is given to you and out of your own free will you CHOOSE to believe or dismiss it. That is part of the cycle of life. If you feel comfy NOT believing, go for it. Just don't do it because you feel "humans" are the ones delivering the message......READ the MESSAGE, forget about the delivery....READ the MESSAGE yourself. If it makes sense to you, believe. If it doesn't, move on and find something that does.

[Hulud]

I'm not anyone's "keeper" but I feel I should answer a couple of things.




It maybe because he believes it.

so he believes in something doesnt mean that it is

Name a single HISTORY book written while the HISTORY was still happening.... Just because a book was written AFTER someone "died" doesn't change the FACT that someone lived, breathed, spoke, walked, preached, etc.....does it? If that's so, then how did you learn about Christopher Columbus? He was long gone by the time you first heard his name, right? So therefore, the HISTORY books that you learned his name and life from in school are they fake? Are they wrong? Were they always written by the SAME author???? Does ANY of that change the FACT that Christopher Columbus was Spanish, Discovered America, and lived???? NOPE.

but it does mean that things are going to be out of proportion, its like when you think back on things from the past they arent the same as what they truly are. they seem a certain way in your mind but are different in reality.

So therefore the argument that since the Bible has many "authors" it's not valid or accurate doesn't make much sense, now does it? Since we all study HISTORY via data derived from all kinds of sources, places, and times in history itself. Many of the "authors" of books STILL in use today as totally accurate are long ago deceased. Does that make any of the info in the book all of a sudden false......NOPE.

i never said it was all of a sudden false now did i?

Again, name a single book written by ANY devine being. Just one.

There isn't a single one. Why? Because all religious books were written by followers and not the leaders. It is up to the reader to believe or not. That is part of the equation. The info is given to you and out of your own free will you CHOOSE to believe or dismiss it. That is part of the cycle of life. If you feel comfy NOT believing, go for it. Just don't do it because you feel "humans" are the ones delivering the message......READ the MESSAGE, forget about the delivery....READ the MESSAGE yourself. If it makes sense to you, believe. If it doesn't, move on and find something that does.

did i say there was one? i dont choose to not believe because of humans, i choose not to believe because i think there is no god, plain and simple

[Jaimecbr900]

so he believes in something doesnt mean that it is

In his mind it is. Sometimes that's enough. For you it may or may not be, but for him it may very well be. In other words, that's HIS version of the truth. You can debate with him all you want but it just is.

but it does mean that things are going to be out of proportion, its like when you think back on things from the past they arent the same as what they truly are. they seem a certain way in your mind but are different in reality.

Sorry bud, but that's a lot of double talk. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that because something like the Bible was written way back when it somehow diminishes in value or content over time? Who's "reality" are we talking about here?

I'm sorry, but I didn't follow that at all.

i never said it was all of a sudden false now did i?

Well you didn't spell it out, but you certainly implied it IMO.

did i say there was one? i dont choose to not believe because of humans, i choose not to believe because i think there is no god, plain and simple

Your previous post you made it seem as if you were knocking back on Mr. Echo because he "believed" in something although it was "based on humans" as you put it. What did you mean then?

BTW, it's certainly your perrogative to not believe on whatever you feel like. It really is pretty simple if you wanna know the truth. If you lead a thirsty horse to water and he CHOOSES not to drink and die, that's on the horse not the handler. That's pretty much how religion IMO is. There are lots of "lakes" for you to drink from. If you CHOOSE to thirst to death, it's on you. Some of you guys (that don't believe in God period) I guess feel you can survive on your own w/o anything. That's fine, again your perrogative. There's really only ONE way to find out....YOU've placed your bet, as have I.