IA Here is a Serious Question.

[TheProfiteer]

For all you religious people of IA, please let me ask you something.

What do you imagine heaven to be like?

Simple as that. Tell me when you die, what are you expecting?

[dohc4.6sc]

my body will become one with the earth, and i will come back as a beautiful tree.

[Dr.G35]

For all you religious people of IA, please let me ask you something.

What do you imagine heaven to be like?

Simple as that. Tell me when you die, what are you expecting?

seeing all my family greeting me to the one place that is truly home.

[Brett]

I hope something like the movie "What Dreams May Come"

But I hope its a place that is pure peace and happiness, But I do often wonder of heaven exsists or if its a place made up by people to make the reality of death easier.

[The Ren]

I often wonder what death will be like.. I honestly have no idea.. just know its enevitable and it will happen one day.

[BobbyFresco]

I expect to decompose...
/ thread.

[BobbyFresco]

I hope something like the movie "What Dreams May Come"

But I hope its a place that is pure peace and happiness, But I do often wonder of heaven exsists or if its a place made up by people to make the reality of death easier.

This.

[EJ25RUN]

Nurburgring in a Porsche 917 when part of the track is snowing.

[d993s]

I hope something like the movie "What Dreams May Come"

But I hope its a place that is pure peace and happiness, But I do often wonder of heaven exsists or if its a place made up by people to make the reality of death easier.

EXACTLY!

[TheProfiteer]

I hope something like the movie "What Dreams May Come"

But I hope its a place that is pure peace and happiness, But I do often wonder of heaven exsists or if its a place made up by people to make the reality of death easier.

im going to have to agree with this right here as well.


but for the people that said that something else is there, like their family is greeting them, and that its what is truly home.

After the greeting and arrival, what are you going to do?

[mocha latte cupcake]

the human mind can not comprehend the true reality of "end of existance" it won't let you come to peace with. i'm just dead. truly imagine thats the end of all thought, being, even if your mind comes to peace with "no more self existance" and death being eternal silence, coldness, and stillness. the mind still attributes these sensations with death, insinuating that the mind is still @ work in a numb but futile existence in which it can accomplish nothing.

heaven is there as a promise, not as a "making death easier to deal with" people who have faith understand that it is a place where the soul goes after a life of service. works alone are dead without faith. either way, heaven is an unimaginable greatness that can only be described in adjectives and feeble attempts to inspire awe and wonder.

[TheProfiteer]

the human mind can not comprehend the true reality of "end of existance" it won't let you come to peace with. i'm just dead. truly imagine thats the end of all thought, being, even if your mind comes to peace with "no more self existance" and death being eternal silence, coldness, and stillness. the mind still attributes these sensations with death, insinuating that the mind is still @ work in a numb but futile existence in which it can accomplish nothing.

heaven is there as a promise, not as a "making death easier to deal with" people who have faith understand that it is a place where the soul goes after a life of service. works alone are dead without faith. either way, heaven is an unimaginable greatness that can only be described in adjectives and feeble attempts to inspire awe and wonder.

i like the way you put this man, you put a lot of thought into writing this, and some of it came out beautifuly, almost poetic.

i think you are absolutely right about the whole notion that the mind is unable to truly accept the end of existence.

but sadly I think death really is the end of ones personal existence, i dont attribute death as the eternal sleep, I concieve it as the end of my sentience, no more thought, feeling, emotion, no numbness, no coldness, no darkness, just pure and utter nothing. You fade to black and once the lights are out the darkness begins to fade, after which you are gone.

[trini_gsr]

since I'm lurking in this forum today I'll take a stab at this one

there seems to be a common undercurrent amidst all these different ideas about basically returning to what you could call the Source of creation at death. Some think this implies a reincarnation cycle, some think you get judged and go to heaven or hell, some get thrown back into the Matrix, etc.

Now I believe God is responsible for creating the universe, so just like our bodies are a part of a grand natural order, our consciousness is too. each consciousness (spirit, ego, the I) is almost like a reflection of the totality of consciousness that God represents. It's kinda like we'd be a reflection of the sun focused through a magnifying glass into one little point (burning a hole in someone's shoe LOL). break the glass (which signifies death) and that light doesn't cease to exist or diminish the sun in any way...the light just exists in another form now.

Now if when the "glass" breaks, do we exist in a harmonious state and retain our consciousness, or do we lose it and that same life energy just gets refocused in a different glass (reincarnation), I don't know. Our bodies break back down into dust so it stands to reason that our "spirits" do the same. There's not enough info for me to draw a logical conclusion. I have some ideas about it but they're just ideas...don't wanna get too deep into it

[TheProfiteer]

since I'm lurking in this forum today I'll take a stab at this one

there seems to be a common undercurrent amidst all these different ideas about basically returning to what you could call the Source of creation at death. Some think this implies a reincarnation cycle, some think you get judged and go to heaven or hell, some get thrown back into the Matrix, etc.

Now I believe God is responsible for creating the universe, so just like our bodies are a part of a grand natural order, our consciousness is too. each consciousness (spirit, ego, the I) is almost like a reflection of the totality of consciousness that God represents. It's kinda like we'd be a reflection of the sun focused through a magnifying glass into one little point (burning a hole in someone's shoe LOL). break the glass (which signifies death) and that light doesn't cease to exist or diminish the sun in any way...the light just exists in another form now.

Now if when the "glass" breaks, do we exist in a harmonious state and retain our consciousness, or do we lose it and that same life energy just gets refocused in a different glass (reincarnation), I don't know. Our bodies break back down into dust so it stands to reason that our "spirits" do the same. There's not enough info for me to draw a logical conclusion. I have some ideas about it but they're just ideas...don't wanna get too deep into it

my beliefs fall in line with this as well.

I believe that our being, our individuality, our conciousness is a product of our flesh, our bodies, our physical mind. When our body dies so does our being, but that spark of life, that energy that exists within life is potentaily returned back to the earth to create life anew.

[trini_gsr]

my beliefs fall in line with this as well.

I believe that our being, our individuality, our conciousness is a product of our flesh, our bodies, our physical mind. When our body dies so does our being, but that spark of life, that energy that exists within life is potentaily returned back to the earth to create life anew.

the question is...does that life spark retain its sense of self once returning to God, or is it "recycled" into new life (reincarnation)? Also, is there a judgement of sorts waiting on it when this happens that determines its next destination? This is the point where the different religions go off in different directions.

Seems like it should be a basic recycling...but then you have to wonder how does the whole karmic cause/effect scenario fit into it. because the natural universe follows these laws too. Only it might not be so immediate where spirituality is concerned. I dunno...

[TheProfiteer]

the question is...does that life spark retain its sense of self once returning to God, or is it "recycled" into new life (reincarnation)? Also, is there a judgement of sorts waiting on it when this happens that determines its next destination? This is the point where the different religions go off in different directions.

Seems like it should be a basic recycling...but then you have to wonder how does the whole karmic cause/effect scenario fit into it. because the natural universe follows these laws too. Only it might not be so immediate where spirituality is concerned. I dunno...

I think that all the things we attribute to spirituality is derived from human worldly notions. Which is wrong, because if there is anything beyond death, it is so much more than what we understand or can even imagine. I do know for certian, I can just feel it, that our being does not go beyond life. It dies with our flesh.

[ISAtlanta300]

Everything that has a beginning, has an end. And vice versa. However, the simple fact that you had a beginning, dictates that you either already had your end, or were just waiting in line to begin here and now on this earth anew.

If we subscribe to the notion that something can not come out of nothing, then you were already 'somewhere' before you were even born.

Maybe you were pure energy. Maybe you were just a soul. But could you have been nothing and then suddenly just 'exist'?

Maybe when you die you return to your 'dormant state' until you are 'sparked' anew. Maybe this 'dormant state' is heaven. Or maybe a temporary holding state somewhere in one or other dimension.

[geoff]

the bible states this...when we die our flesh and soul seperate. we then enter a sleep like state. ( i dont know much about this part but i believe its without dreams or anything, just a deep sleep.) then the Lord Jesus Christ ( God ) comes back and the ones who died for Him, maryters, rise first. then believers and then finally non believers. (here is where my oppinion comes in)..............................

we then enter into a giant court room if you will, where we all await to be called in lines. evolutionists, theorists, non-believers go " OH $H!T " and then cower in a corner and await to be called. we then each stand before our maker and He opens up two books and weighs our deeds and how we conducted and lived our lives. i believe this process takes some time as we give account for ourselves. we then are judged by God and here one of two verdicts....1. Be gone from Me for I never knew you. or 2. well done My faithful servant.

the ones that here verdict one suffer the second death, no presence of God, no peace, and eternal suffering.( im not sure what hell is like nor do i want to find out) the ones that here verdict 2 enter into new jeruselum or the Kingdom of God. it will be a new earth with no night, no rain, no catastrophies. there will be no sun for Jesus Himself will be the light for us and will be among us. i believe it to be much like this earth but without death, suffering, ect...a perfect world. we as the ones who made it will see our relatives that made it aswell but we will love all there the same. our days or time or whatever worshiping God and loving Him for eternity. end

[jorgen]

LOADED...

Here we go.
I've read much on death. I think when you die, there is a waiting period. A Purgatory if you will. A place of 'lost' to wonder until the time has come.

I am affraid of Geoffs version is likely correct. I am still very uncertain about the measure of judgments. As we are all sinners no?

Upon entering heaven, you are given a new and perfect body, you are made whole.
This must happen. You cannot goto heaven in your current form.
You would sin again in a matter of seconds and be thrown out.

I try to imagine adding extra dimensions to a 3D space... can't do it. Good luck.

Mary L. Baxter:
She provides in great detail a tour of both heaven and hell.
http://spiritlessons.com/a_divine_re..._of_heaven.htm
http://spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxt...on_of_Hell.htm

[TheProfiteer]

I try to imagine adding extra dimensions to a 3D space... can't do it. Good luck.

Here is a very simple way to look at the 4th dimension.

1st D= Height
2nd D= Length
3rd D= Width
4th D= Duration


Time is not a singular point of existence, we just percieve it that way.

[TheProfiteer]

the bible states this...when we die our flesh and soul seperate. we then enter a sleep like state. ( i dont know much about this part but i believe its without dreams or anything, just a deep sleep.) then the Lord Jesus Christ ( God ) comes back and the ones who died for Him, maryters, rise first. then believers and then finally non believers. (here is where my oppinion comes in)..............................

we then enter into a giant court room if you will, where we all await to be called in lines. evolutionists, theorists, non-believers go " OH $H!T " and then cower in a corner and await to be called. we then each stand before our maker and He opens up two books and weighs our deeds and how we conducted and lived our lives. i believe this process takes some time as we give account for ourselves. we then are judged by God and here one of two verdicts....1. Be gone from Me for I never knew you. or 2. well done My faithful servant.

the ones that here verdict one suffer the second death, no presence of God, no peace, and eternal suffering.( im not sure what hell is like nor do i want to find out) the ones that here verdict 2 enter into new jeruselum or the Kingdom of God. it will be a new earth with no night, no rain, no catastrophies. there will be no sun for Jesus Himself will be the light for us and will be among us. i believe it to be much like this earth but without death, suffering, ect...a perfect world. we as the ones who made it will see our relatives that made it aswell but we will love all there the same. our days or time or whatever worshiping God and loving Him for eternity. end

and when you are finally judged and get accepted and are reunited with your family whats next? You just continue on living, in an exponentially increasing realm of immortal people all staying the same age, doing the same earthly activities.


let me ask you this, what good is joy if there is no suffering?

Would happiness really be that powerful with out sorrow on the other end of the spectrum?

[geoff]

are you saying that someone needs to be miserable in order to know what true happiness is? are you saying that someone needs to suffer before they can experience joy?

[TheProfiteer]

are you saying that someone needs to be miserable in order to know what true happiness is? are you saying that someone needs to suffer before they can experience joy?

not necessarily. But the person needs to know that the other exists and that its possible.


Its a lot like a balancing effect. Think about it, how can you truly know happiness if to you sorrow is not even possible.

Heaven can not be this perfect place with no pain, no sorrow, no suffering, just absolute perfection. Because then you can exist eternally and do anything with no consequence. Not to mention you would eventually become so desensitized to everything that you would just be, you would feel happiness, or sorrow, or pain or pleasure, you would just be. (Which is the worst existence of all) This idea of a perfect existence is so far fetched I have a hard time understanding how anyone could ever believe in it, its just inhuman.

[geoff]

with no one feeling pain and sorrow and only happiness how could we be desensitized? living in a perfect world would be just that...perfect. i think we have been desensitized because of all the wikedness of people.

[zimabog]

I'm confident that when we die, nothing happens. Same thing that happens to ants, plants, mice, cockroachs, and dogs also happens to us. We are the same as them, just matter, molecules and atoms. No souls or spirits. Just non-existence.

[Echonova]

with no one feeling pain and sorrow and only happiness how could we be desensitized? living in a perfect world would be just that...perfect. i think we have been desensitized because of all the wikedness of people.

I think what he was trying to say... How can you have Dr. Jekyll without Mr. Hyde? Without the lows you experience in life how could you truly appreciate the highs? Take Hollywood for example. They have (basically) everything we want... Fame, money and influence. Yet how many are strung out on drugs, alcohol ect? Now don't get me wrong, I believe in Heaven. Hope to see you there, but if everything is "perfect" I'm not sure imperfect beings as ourselves could cope.

Now I'm not sure what Heaven is, but a world where there are no questions only answers does not personally interest me. The purpose of the human spirit is to learn, what happens in a "perfect" world where there is nothing else?

[TheProfiteer]

with no one feeling pain and sorrow and only happiness how could we be desensitized? living in a perfect world would be just that...perfect. i think we have been desensitized because of all the wikedness of people.

ok look at it this way, economically its known as the law of diminishing returns.

If are starving, and you are sitting at a table stocked up to the brim with the most delicious foods, since you are starving every piece of food looks so undeniably delicious, so savory, so juicy, tasty, succulent, and then you dig in. As you take your first bite, your mind recognizes that the need to feed has been achieved and you are filled with joy, if you have ever starved you would know the feeling. You eat to live, and you are programmed to keep living, its instinct, its the definition of life itself. You are initially overfilled with happiness as you eat, and as you continue eating as you begin to get full each bite begins to taste just a bit not as good as the last, and this process keeps going until you can eat no more. Which then is followed by a feeling of satisfaction. You are than at one point no longer in need of food, you were starving, a negative physical state that correlates with several negative emotional states, the fulfillment of your desire to eat brings to you happiness, at one point this desire and need is fulfilled, you are satisfied, you revel in your happiness, and now since you cant keep eating you have to move on. Find something else that will fulfill your desires, and bring onto you happiness.

In heaven, since its so perfect, you would never feel hunger, so you would never need to eat, you would never need money so you would never need to work, you would never feel boredom so you would never even have to do anything, you could if you wanted to but why, the negative emotional state that is boredom isnt there, its heaven its perfect. You would just float around gleefully with your family with not a care in the world, there is nothing to distress you, nothing to bring you harm, nothing at all can happen to you, eternally.

Oh dont forget, all the good people that have been dying since Christ are there too, a whole load of em, numbers can not even measure, and since heaven is eternal its seen its fair share of repetitions of earth. So yeah heaven is overcrowded a bit too, and if not that means it stretches on forever as well, truly eternal. Which means theres no where to go either.

I dont know about you, but to me, that sounds a lot like hell.

[TheProfiteer]

I think what he was trying to say... How can you have Dr. Jekyll without Mr. Hyde? Without the lows you experience in life how could you truly appreciate the highs? Take Hollywood for example. They have (basically) everything we want... Fame, money and influence. Yet how many are strung out on drugs, alcohol ect? Now don't get me wrong, I believe in Heaven. Hope to see you there, but if everything is "perfect" I'm not sure imperfect beings as ourselves could cope.

Now I'm not sure what Heaven is, but a world where there are no questions only answers does not personally interest me. The purpose of the human spirit is to learn, what happens in a "perfect" world where there is nothing else?

thats the perfect explanation. beautifully poetic

[TheProfiteer]

QD you gotta chime in on this one, I see you there.

All WL BS aside, share your opinion as well.

[sport_122]

let me ask you this, what good is joy if there is no suffering?

Would happiness really be that powerful with out sorrow on the other end of the spectrum?

yes. If you believe that we are experiencing our sorrow now. Death is full of sorrow for many angles for the living and human nature seems to be good at one thing, causing pain to others. If this is a memory of ours then the glorification of the body will be nothing but joyous as we will have seen the end of those things that were harmful.

[TheProfiteer]

yes. If you believe that we are experiencing our sorrow now. Death is full of sorrow for many angles for the living and human nature seems to be good at one thing, causing pain to others. If this is a memory of ours then the glorification of the body will be nothing but joyous as we will have seen the end of those things that were harmful.

really? you really want to believe its life that sucks ass, and the good stuff comes after?

[zimabog]

im interested in how many of you think other creatures such as plants, dogs, ants, snakes have a spirit or afterlife

[geoff]

we as humans are the only ones that have a spirit and after life. we are the only creatures that God breathed the breath of life into. we cannot comprehend heaven as we cant comprehend fully God. who knows what we will feel? the bible just says joy. im not sure whats in store for us. all i know is that i would rather make it to heaven and find out then to go to hell

[quickdodge®]

we as humans are the only ones that have a spirit and after life. we are the only creatures that God breathed the breath of life into.

Pretty bold statement, don't you think? How could you possibly know this? Unless that "book" told you so.

But I do think that there can be joy without pain. I think that the suffering on Earth is the pain we go through to be able to experience an eternal happiness after we move on.

If this is the case. Later, QD.

[geoff]

+1 on the latter part of your post QD. and i believe its fair to use the Bible to explain why we as humans only have a soul because we are talkin about heaven and using to Bible to refrence it. we are not goin off of our own experiences as we are still alive but by what the Word of God says

[quickdodge®]

+1 on the latter part of your post QD.

Cool.

and i believe its fair to use the Bible to explain why we as humans only have a soul because we are talkin about heaven and using to Bible to refrence it. we are not goin off of our own experiences as we are still alive but by what the Word of God says

I don't see where that answers how you are so sure to aver that humans are the only living creatures with a soul. Later, QD.

[geoff]

i used the bible. and it really makes sense if you think about it. we are the only creatures with a conscience and have morals and values. why? because we are the only ones that have a soul. maybe that soul is linked to our conscience some how? and by the way QD bump for your car. thats sick man. glws

[TheProfiteer]

i used the bible. and it really makes sense if you think about it. we are the only creatures with a conscience and have morals and values. why? because we are the only ones that have a soul. maybe that soul is linked to our conscience some how? and by the way QD bump for your car. thats sick man. glws

Please logically explain to me how humans are the only ones with consciousness?
Have you ever owned a pet, have you ever seen the emotion in a dogs eyes? There is a member here with a .gif sig where a dog is looking at some cupcakes, and you can just see the fear in his eyes.

Animals have emotions, emotions are products of consciousness, end of story.

How dare you attack and accuse the rest of the living world to be nothing but mindless automatons, living out a completely pointless existence, existing soley for us to feed on them right? This is the kind of thinking that leads to whaling, to pouching, and driving countless animal species to extinction.

you my friend have proved my point, you are a disgusting person, a pawn of organized religion, the world going to be destroyed unless mindsets like yours are erased.

[geoff]

you must be one of those animal rights activists. im going to go make a dolphin sandwich

[TheProfiteer]

you must be one of those animal rights activists. im going to go make a dolphin sandwich

i am not, but if you see nothing wrong with driving animals to extinction.

Then you seriously need to question your "morals" and "values"