Quote Originally Posted by sport_122
if you believe that faith and fact cannot coexist on the same subject matter then do you do not believe in the orbit of the earth as it was calculated thousands of years ago, the moon, the sun, the galaxy which were all identified millenia ago, etc. Do you believe evolution is real? Do you believe that going to college will yield you a higher paying job, or adding a certain part will make your car faster than someone elses. These are all actions that people take first based off of observational experience, then based off of faith, and then can easily become fact.
This is not fair. FAITH is the substance of things HOPED for - the "evidence" of things NOT seen. So in your example FAITH would be me thinking that my 12.50 Honda will outrun a 11.50 Viper just b/c I pray really hard. The "laws" of horesepower production w/ respect to traction doesn't require FAITH. If I injest more air and fuel at the proper time w/ the spark at the right time i WILL make more horsepower. That does not require FAITH at at all, it just requires precison of all of the elements. These "elements" do not exist w/ a walk w/ God. You can see this in your explanations b/c you always factor in a "copout" w/ phrases like "Tangibility is not always an option in making a case for something" You set it up perfectly to where you get to a point that you are not held to the standard to PRODUCE - and that's a shame - really, it is.



Quote Originally Posted by sport_122
First, the explosion of the Christian church immediately after the death and resurrection of Christ. Had he not risen, the messages that he spoke and the deeds that he did would have been immediately dismissed as he openly claimed that he would rise again.
All the reason for the Church to steal his DEAD body before others did to propagate this crap. I mean there are people trying to steal Michael Jackson's body. The popularity of the Christian church is DEFINITELY not proof of anything. When are you going to learn that people are fickle - people ride the hype for the moment. Look at MJ record sales -- people who never gave a FUCK about him are buying his shit like he is anew artist... all of a sudden we all are MJ fans. So you can imagine in a time when there is no internet, no radio, no TV, and all is word of mouth --- some quack who is more suited for a Circus act makes rediculous claims to get free foot rubs and food wherever he goes will be big news.

[QUOTE=sport_122Second, There are plenty of first Century Roman historians who have written about the man of Christ and about his death and his followers and the miracles that they were known to have worked.[/quote]

Come on man. Look at IA. Look at the guys that were FAST (quick) well before it was supposed to be popular to do it in a FWD Honda. The stories you hear are RETARDED. I've had people walk up to me after they realize I am "Baby J" and say "I've heard about you man --- didn't you have like a 200 shot on single cams back in the day and were outrunning turbo Vettes?" LOL. I laugh and say - "yeah, I was def one of the only guys pushing Nitrous limits on stock D series Civics, but it was nowhere NEAR 200 and I wasn't raping boosted vettes." Was I fast - you bet!! Was I pushing limit - YOU BET. But that was only in the 90s, and you see how convoluted the stories about me have gotten ALREADY!!! Now set yourself back in bible times and imagine how popular a "magician" or "side-show freak" could get IN A HURRY. 2000 years later the guy was walking on water and then dying and then being ressurected.

And since we are on writing --- why does "the church" pick and choose what books/stories were included in the final cut? What about entire BOOKS about how no matter what every1 goes to heaven that were magically not included?? These books were authored by some of the same people that have books in "your bible" already. You know why those were not included? Control.

[QUOTE=sport_122
Third, did you know that after his resurrection he is said to have been on this earth for no less than 40 days. At that time there were hundreds of witnesses who saw him, and his physical body and his ascension.[/quote]

You know how many MLK, Elvis, Michael Jackson, JFK sightings there have been? People see what they want to belive and I KNOW you know this. People that are star-struck or fanatics will ALWAYS see what they want to see. I am a D series fan FOR LIFE. Even now I think that no matter WHAT kinda power you make w/ a K series, I can build a D that will outrun it - LOL. For the churches benefit he HAD to rise --- whether he rose or whether the church wanted to make it look like he did. Just add water and you have your instant hero.

Quote Originally Posted by sport_122This is what defines miracles, this is how God demonstrated himself to men all over the world, but we get so used to the "norm" that we ignore the existence of the abnormal. [b
We are currently in a period where we are trying to ignore morality [/b]and its origins and next we will try to dismiss the laws of nature and surely enough we will be put in our place again. How? I don't know but history shows that we have a habit of forgetting our problems in favor of embracing and living by sight, when it is very obvious that our world is made up of much more than what we can see.
You are in a place where you are trying to ignore mortality - that is a MUCH slicker slope IMO.

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