Quote Originally Posted by zimabog View Post
Einstien and Hawking and other scientists use the word "god" many times in their writings. Hawking was straight up atheist, has said he was atheist, and his use of the word god means an abstract principle of order and harmony, a set of mathematical equations, as does Eisnstien's god.

Their god is simply just nature, the reason why Alkaline Earth Metals like to ionicly bond with the Halogens. As in why the speed of light is 300,000 kilometers per second and not 500,000 kilometers per second. As in why velocity is the derivative of position and the integral of acceleration. As in why a force at 90 degrees to intended direction of movement produces no work (Force*distance*cosθ=work). That is nature, that is what many famous scientists refer to as "god".

Now the equation "dv/dt = a" doesn't seem like a god does it? Your right, its just nature. It might as well say on dollar bills "IN DV/DT=A WE TRUST" because that is the only thing an atheist might even refer to as god. Just imagine that on our currency: "IN F=MA WE TRUST". "F=MA BLESS OUR SOLDIERS". "dQ-dW=dU BLESS AMERICA".

These equations do not have a conscious, nor a personality or plan, they do not even know they exist. They are simply equations of nature. The only thing most atheists will even refer to as god will be the thing that makes those equations valid, which is just nature. I believe in nature, but I don't believe in god. Any type of god. Nature is sometimes referred to as a product of a god, that may be true, but all we have is nature, there is no divine thing here. God can not exist in nature. All there is is nature. Therefore god cannot exist. All that exists is nature. What if one said, "What if god is nature?" then you are just using the word god as a synonym for nature. Which is what a lot of famous scientists do. Nature is not divine. It is just nature.

I hope I elaborated enough.
I like this post,

BUT... you forget something. The only reason why those equations work is because variables and the functions are grounded in an absolute. The variables as you state can be defined in numerous ways, but the not so easily understood principle of the whole thing is the WHY those equations work everywhere.

Why does this matter? Well...

You used the name Hawking in that post. In his book "The Big Bang and Black Holes" He wrote about the perceptive conscience that controls our universe. He wrote about this and personified it. He did this because even in his observations he admitted that there was something else going on in our universe that the purest form of the scientific method could not explain. Origins, structure, and even the predictability and universal rules and how they are what allows science and logic to work.

After writing this he went back and wrote an excerpt. He changed his mind and wanted to edit some of the passages, because he did not want his conclusions to be evidence for a God or a creative conscience. He admittedly said that his observations led him to state something that he did not believe and did not want to promote.

I point this out because the truth is that equations present conscious origin. No equations or formula to calculate anything originates from nowhere. Things that "just happen" have no equation to represent them. The design of triangles, the formulaic expressions for circles and spheres, and pyramids, these all have a function that is created and designed. The formulas ONLY work because the objects were designed.

Circles do not form naturally in our universe. Squares do not form naturally, triangles, do not form naturally. So if you want to discuss the formulaic expressions which are universal to our human understanding in mathematics then you need to understand that these things are product of a conscious designer and not circumstance. Likewise, formulas are a product of the design of these objects. The objects do not occur naturally.

When speaking of natural phenomenon. It is not to be forgotten that the same rules apply. The only reason we can understand the speed of light or the properties of alkaline metals is because they follow rules. They have constants. The question is why...why is it that these things all act within a certain spectrum if our universe is simply the product of disorder and chaotic probability. All it takes is for a few of these things to be without "rule" for the formula to never work. For instance, the speed of light, slowing itself down or the rules of mass and gravity deciding that they do not want to work this time.

We do not see that. And we have yet to give a logical counter claim to why things function this way if their is nothing defining the rules with which they can and will function. Hawking observed this. Dawkins observes this but also refuses to name this "process".

My point is the further you go into the scientific hole, its not the more you understand about our universe, its the more you realize that you DO NOT know what is going on and that the pieces of the puzzle are not simplistic. The presence of our universe methods can only at its root serve to point to a universe logic. Logic does not exist without conscious. What would you define this conscious as. Do you think it is just random that the thousands upon thousands of equations that we have developed work?