Quote Originally Posted by NissanTun3r
Religion is made by men. Do you really think the kuran, bible, etc were in existance before humans were? Obviously not. A human wrote these books supposedly influenced by a god and thus was born a religion, a set of beliefs and doctrines to live ones life by.

I never said religion destroys the earth....I've said it has indirectly killed millions, because it has. Religion isn't only for the weak, but I think that if ppl had the courage to truly beieve in themselves they would rely a LOT less on religion to comfort them.

Now if THIS is how you express your opinion about me, maybe you need to reread what I've posted. kthxbye

These are probably some of the most ridiculous arguments against organized religion that I have ever heard. I am beginning to think that your way of viewing the world in an almost agnostic way is the reason you have made some completely strange and unfounded statements. You have stated that you believe that YOU are responsible for doing good and that the INDIVIDUAL should have the courage to believe in themself...

That is EXACTLY the problem. The jewish faith, which is the origin of the christian faith, and arguably the origin of the islamic faith, was passed down for many centuries WITHOUT a text. The reason this faith can claim its existence before the origins of men, is simple. Because they all believe that the foundation of their faith lies on something eternal. Christians believe that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are eternal, existing before creation and that they are the embodiment of our moral code and law. Jews just believe in the spirit and God. there are crossing views on this as well. But my point is that before there were texts there were people following these faiths. So they didn't just pop up because someone wrote a book. The way you state that shows me that you know nothing about the origin of these faiths. They existed for hundreds of years before any script was ever written. It's called oral tradition, and it is still used today. Without it there is no history, there is no past, your ancestors do not exist, and people are no different than ants.

Why does it matter? Well with your method of thinking, there is NO law because individuals all have their own beliefs. Even in your statment, you said ,the individual should be encouraged to believe in themself... So I ask where does that leave you? If I want someone dead, and I am the authority what holds me back? What makes your desire for life trump my desire for your life to end? In your world, I am to look to myself for guidence, but that becomes anarchy because what is in me doesn't sync with what is in the other 6+ billion people in the world. I can take your life and I am justified in doing so because YOU have agreed that this is how the world should functions. There is no justice, because justice has to be grounded in law which can only be truly support when it is founded on an absolute. Absolutes must be eternal.

With your method, you can't say we have laws or a moral code, because (I think I've said to you before) without the existence of an eternal, even law is subjective and has no foundation of purpose or reality. And there is NO moral code except that of which I(the individual) have decided upon. There is no justice, because YOU cannot punish ME because I make MY rules.

You are trying to blame religion when in fact you should be looking at people (the individuals) who falsely represent a religion. This is what people who watch too much tv do when they hear about islamic terrorist. The estimated number of terrorists in the islamic faith is said to make up less than 1% of all muslims, but this faith has been demonized by the actions of a few. Its like the world looking at what an American government does and blames all of America as if you or I are sitting on capital hill dictacting our desires to committ attrocities around the globe. There have been billions upon billions of christians and muslims, and jews, but you chose to look at the few who have made history and you are trying to place your judgement on religion while ignoring the real fact. Without faith, and real believers, this world would be more dangerous, more deadly, and a worse place to live.

And even in muslim and christian circles people within those faiths look at people who make claims to be in the same faith and do not claim these people. The majority of muslims, say that, islamic terrorists, are not following the qu'ron. Poeple like Hitler were twisted and domented and were not doing what they did in the name of God.

In fact, they were doing exactly what YOU say they should. They were ignoring the totality of their texts for the sake of making themselves the authority. Hitler, was making, his way the law. He was denying scripture and sculpting his own world based off of his personal views while claiming to be a christian authority.

You claim to look at things with a greater good mentality. But I call BS. The greater good mentality would look at the totality of these things and how they promote love, order, peace, integrity, honesty, and passion, and want more of the world to live to these codes. I think you just have a personal agenda.

And you are wrong, the greatest feeling someone can feel is love. Love is not helping someone just to help someone. Love is helping someone because you really care for their well being. Love is the greatest thing someone can receive and the greatest thing someone can give. That should be the litmus test of the successes and failures of people of faith.

And with ALL of this said, I think you have proven one thing. The weakminded person is one who pulls ridiculous statements out of his ass, claiming proof, and showing none, and making arguments based off of God knows what. Maybe you should go study "the facts" on where these faiths come from, and really looking at the numbers and the history, try to decide if your statements made any since.