The End of Christian America

[Paul]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/192583?GT1=43002

read/discuss.

the number of people willing to describe themselves as atheist or agnostic has increased about fourfold from 1990 to 2009, from 1 million to about 3.6 million.

I skimmed through it since it was rather lengthy and I'm at work but i do think we are finally on a path to two extremes Godlessness and Radicals. I think people around the world in developed nations are seeking less in God than ever before as those who core values are shaped by Church influence are becoming stronger due to times at hand. In the end I think specially here in America those who do not believe in the Christian God or its influence on modern politics are finally getting the voice they deserve.

[leobond001]

and the funny thing is. as ppl change there religions, things keep getting worse.

[Jdm94Coupe]

^ but look at the ppl in high power..... still religious.... what does that say? look at all the violence from religious ppl and all the negative things happening around religious leaders.

[Jdm94Coupe]

and the funny thing is. as ppl change there religions, things keep getting worse.

Don't blame the hard times on people not being religious, thats a non-logical cop out. Put some fact behind it.

[leobond001]

i wasnt saying because of hard time. but if you read the book of revelations, they talk about some of this. chaos and disease. look at the past 50 or 60 years, not just 5.

[AirMax95]

Reading......

[BanginJimmy]

^ but look at the ppl in high power..... still religious.... what does that say? look at all the violence from religious ppl and all the negative things happening around religious leaders.

more people have been raped/tortured/murdered/enslaved in the name of religion than any other cause.

[VIP Style]

man i read this article, its quite disturbing actually.

[Sport1.3]

more people have been raped/tortured/murdered in the name of religion than any other cause.

add enslaved to that list

[BanginJimmy]

add enslaved to that list

added

[SampaGuy]

There are these signs on public transportation on most major cities in Europe, in different languages:

[leobond001]

people have lost faith. this country was founded on christian beliefs, and now it's gone

[BanginJimmy]

I dont see that as a bad thing or a good thing. It is just something that happens. It is also part of our drive towards socialism.

[zimabog]

people have lost faith. this country was founded on christian beliefs, and now it's gone

i thought it was founded on freedom and pursuit of happiness?

most of the founding fathers were not christian, but deist. abe lincoln even rejected organized religion. that "founded on christian beliefs" is just a myth made up by people. it is true that a majority of people were christian, but the major politicians of the revolution were not christian.

[AirMax95]

i thought it was founded on freedom and pursuit of happiness?

most of the founding fathers were not christian, but deist. abe lincoln even rejected organized religion. that "founded on christian beliefs" is just a myth made up by people. it is true that a majority of people were christian, but the major politicians of the revolution were not christian.

Check your local currency......

[zimabog]

Check your local currency......

you mean this local currency?

I do this to all my paper money.

that was put on the dollar bill in the late/middle 1950s.... america was not founded in the 1950s. it is an unconstitutional phrase when on something even as semi-federal as our money.

it was simply put there on order by a religious president to:
"In these days when imperialistic and materialistic Communism seeks to attack and destroy freedom, it is proper to remind all of us of this self-evident truth that as long as this country trusts in God, it will prevail."

which is a load of bullshit. any sort of god does not allow the country to "prevail". A communist is better than a theocrat.
Communism in europe rose up from the extreme power and wealth of the church clergy and tsar (kings as you know, have power given by god).... so it only makes sense that priests and stuff would go away with communism in those times.

[SampaGuy]

Under God does not mean under Christ. It is not christian. Like zimabog said, the founding fathers were deist or agnostic.

[SUBY_RUE]

more people have been raped/tortured/murdered/enslaved in the name of religion than any other cause.

Thats true...

But I'm still a believer, becouse religion is not the only thing people have killed in the name of... hell... we killed the hell out of alot of people in the name of freedom, I dont see the difference...

Im not bashing or saying anyone is wrong with their opinion btw... just my .02...

[cwhiteboy]

you mean this local currency?

I do this to all my paper money.

that was put on the dollar bill in the late/middle 1950s.... america was not founded in the 1950s. it is an unconstitutional phrase when on something even as semi-federal as our money.

it was simply put there on order by a religious president to:
"In these days when imperialistic and materialistic Communism seeks to attack and destroy freedom, it is proper to remind all of us of this self-evident truth that as long as this country trusts in God, it will prevail."

which is a load of bullshit. any sort of god does not allow the country to "prevail". A communist is better than a theocrat.
Communism in europe rose up from the extreme power and wealth of the church clergy and tsar (kings as you know, have power given by god).... so it only makes sense that priests and stuff would go away with communism in those times.

Man you beat me to all of it, glad to see some intelligent people around on these forums. .

[EJ25RUN]

There are these signs on public transportation on most major cities in Europe, in different languages:

I saw that.

Wish we had that over here.

and the funny thing is. as ppl change there religions, things keep getting worse.

er, isn't it most Christians that usually start problems in the first place by not respecting other faiths for being different?

[SUBY_RUE]

I saw that.

Wish we had that over here.



er, isn't it most Christians that usually start problems in the first place by not respecting other faiths for being different?

Yes and no... The christians start as many problem as other beliefs or non beliefs do, its just nobody admits fault... Everybody thinks they are right, and that is what starts trouble...

I just look at it like this, if you believe...cool, if you dont...cool... Just dont go around pushing your point and beliefs on someone... I'm the type that, as long as someone is cool and respectfull... then we will get along. I have tons of freinds that dont believe in religion, it doesnt faze me at all...

[afwfjustin]

and the funny thing is. as ppl change there religions, things keep getting worse.

These have nothing to do with one another. You could say "as people change their religions, the American car industry keeps getting worse."

It's about time people stop relying on religion.

[EJ25RUN]

It's about time people stop relying on religion.

Wow. Nail on head there!

[afwfjustin]

There are these signs on public transportation on most major cities in Europe, in different languages:

LOL

<--proud atheist

[Revmaynard]

LOL

<--proud atheist

x2


You live IN Edgewood Shopping District???

[BanginJimmy]

y
it was simply put there on order by a religious president to:

Wrong, it was put there as part of a joint resolution of the 84th Congress to certify "In God We Trust" as our national motto. That resolution, P.L. 84-140, was signed by the President on July 30, 1956.

Go back to before paper money though and "In God We Trust" has appeared on coinage, more specifically the 2cent coin, since 1864.

[Starrfire]

good. Looks like a few of the "Christians" who are hypocritical and the catholics who just go to church on easter sunday finally thought about the religion as a whole and actually tried rationalizing it, and found out that it is bull shit. Therefore, the number of a "maybe" god increase. Because really, man made up all the words, put them together, added what they thought stories needed, took out what sounded bad and there's the bible. A book made a couple of thousand years ago by a bunch of sheep hearding towel heads. What if today someone said they were Jesus Christ and he was sent here to save all humanity. Believe that shit. Agnosticisim is good, because you believe there is something out there. Because in the end no matter how much faith you have misplaced in some odd religion, you still don't know what's on the other side, and I'm just here to live my life the best I can. If something good comes of it then great. I'm not here to grovel to some made up shit.

[zimabog]

i dont care who or when it was put on there, it shouldnt be there. we are not a nation under a god. its not like the president was just handed this bill and was like "oh whats this bill here? in god we trust, sure whatever." he wanted this. but yes, the blame is also on the 84th congress.

osticisim is good, because you believe there is something out there.

thats not what it means

[Starrfire]

b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

No, it's not what it means, but it could depend on what your views of agnoticisim are tool

[ahabion]

These have nothing to do with one another. You could say "as people change their religions, the American car industry keeps getting worse."

It's about time people stop relying on religion.

I have a better idea, how about people start taking responsibility for themselves and of each other?

People are simply looking for someone or something to blame, be it God, Government, or rich/poor people... but really, if we were to simply take responsibility for our actions but also take responsibility for our society, it would be transforming.

If we keep changing our laws, policies, and values to make YOU feel good... what's the point of having laws, policies and values? What makes America unique in comparison to the rest of the world is its values and how each person is individualized, no two exactly the same or having the same aspirations, dreams, so on and so forth... America was founded under Godly principles, the exact same principles that would encourage the unique individualism that has made America the greatest global power in the world. If these people were not Godly people, they should have never signed it.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

The more you strip away God, the more you strip away individualism and in essence, freedom. The further we've moved away from God, the more socialized we become, relying on things like government, social programs, and someone elses work. The more we drift away from being a republic, the more we become socialists.

[zimabog]

b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

No, it's not what it means, but it could depend on what your views of agnoticisim are tool

that is not the correct definition.

agnostic: one without knowledge.... one who affirms that the existence or non-existence of a god is unknown. you can be agnostic theist or agnostic atheist... it just means that you believe that you can not know. even richard dawkins is agnostic, and he has said that.

atheism is just "without god"... one who doesnt believe. they dont have to say that they 'know there isnt'.

[_Christian_]

richard dawkins

The bus makes one more stop in this thread..

[Drummerboy]

Reading this thread really has upset me. Not in an anger way, but more in a "I wish they got it" way.

First off, the word "christian" has been tainted so much and contorted from what it really means, "to be like christ". The common christian now is no more than a hypocritical person who scorns other people for not saying they are christians. I get that! and let me speak at least for myself, and say i apologize for letting it get like that.
We as Christians have dropped the ball. We are held to a higher standard, be it from the media or our daily lives.

Also, "Religion" is commonly associated with Christianity. thats completely wrong. I HATE Religion. It tends to form cults and is nothing more than rules.

I personally have a Relationship with God. And by that i mean, I read my Bible, I pray and God honestly speaks back. Sometimes through showing me new things in the Bible or speaking directly to me through the Still, small voice that the Bible talks about. Which as a side note, the Hebrew word there doesn't even refer to an audible voice, His voice is in the Silence! ah its so awesome to me.

Im not trying to bash at all! please know that, but how can you answer things like Evolution? And people being healed instantly from things?

Personal testimony to that; When I was 12 (before deciding on getting to know God) I had siezures like crazy, constantly. this lasted for close to a year. Then one night my dad was at a prayer meeting, and the pastor asked my dad (they had never met because this was a new church for us) what was going on with his son. My dad explained, and they prayed for me and continued to seek God for my healing. At that same time, i happened to be on a Dr Table having a siezure. It Instantly stopped. They ran an EEG and an EKG......Nothing. they couldn't explain it.

I just dont know how else you can explain that.






Curious, who on IA is actually man (or woman) enough to admit that they are actually a Christian?

[SampaGuy]

The bus makes one more stop in this thread..

hot atheist chicks ftw. haven't we all been cockblocked by religion at some point LOL

[SampaGuy]

Reading this thread really has upset me. Not in an anger way, but more in a "I wish they got it" way.

First off, the word "christian" has been tainted so much and contorted from what it really means, "to be like christ". The common christian now is no more than a hypocritical person who scorns other people for not saying they are christians. I get that! and let me speak at least for myself, and say i apologize for letting it get like that.
We as Christians have dropped the ball. We are held to a higher standard, be it from the media or our daily lives.

Also, "Religion" is commonly associated with Christianity. thats completely wrong. I HATE Religion. It tends to form cults and is nothing more than rules.

I personally have a Relationship with God. And by that i mean, I read my Bible, I pray and God honestly speaks back. Sometimes through showing me new things in the Bible or speaking directly to me through the Still, small voice that the Bible talks about. Which as a side note, the Hebrew word there doesn't even refer to an audible voice, His voice is in the Silence! ah its so awesome to me.

Im not trying to bash at all! please know that, but how can you answer things like Evolution? And people being healed instantly from things?

Personal testimony to that; When I was 12 (before deciding on getting to know God) I had siezures like crazy, constantly. this lasted for close to a year. Then one night my dad was at a prayer meeting, and the pastor asked my dad (they had never met because this was a new church for us) what was going on with his son. My dad explained, and they prayed for me and continued to seek God for my healing. At that same time, i happened to be on a Dr Table having a siezure. It Instantly stopped. They ran an EEG and an EKG......Nothing. they couldn't explain it.

I just dont know how else you can explain that.






Curious, who on IA is actually man (or woman) enough to admit that they are actually a Christian?

Admitting to what? Either you are or you're not. If someone is denial, they have bigger problems.

Evolution is not even a theory anymore, I work for a biotech company, we mutate living cells everyday in our labs. With the technology of today, it would take hundreds of years for us to mutate a whole animal (faster than nature at least), but the point is that Darwin was right. The scientific publications are there, they are just ignored by the church. Of course there are still mysteries like who started it all, what came first the chicken or the egg, etc.

Since I am somewhat agnostic and do believe in a higher power, I am open to the possibility of God doing miracles, curing your seizures, etc, things beyond science. But understand that could have nothing to do with christianity, the bible, and other inventions of man, so you cannot use it as proof.

[leobond001]

^^^^ most scientist or people in science believe in the same thing you do. theres no room for both evolution the the bible, because they dont go together on any level.

Just like drummerboy, i to have heard GOD. and i'm building my relationship with him. yeah people back track and all, but we're human, not perfect. i know he exists and can offer so many wonderful things.

[SPOOLIN]

denying religion is fine, thats not what makes the world get worse, its simply the lack of common sense and basic values that starts screwing everything up!

i dont see a sign on the bus, only a hot chick with a white t shirt on.

[Total_Blender]

Our country was founded on the principle of religious freedom. Without a state mandated religion, Quakers, Calvinists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Catholics, etc could all live in harmony.

In Europe at the time of the American revolution, the Christians couldn't even get along with each other. Not only were the Catholics and protestants fighting, the protestant denominations where fighting amongst themselves.

It is through a lack of religion in public life that we are free to be religious in our private lives. Why can't people see that?

Luke: 20:25
And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Matthew 6:5 - 6:6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Even the bible tells of the separation between church and state. School prayer, the ten commandments in the courtroom, the pro-life movement... its all a big public spectacle like the hypocrites praying in the synagogues. If you want to pray, pray on your own time... don't try to make my kids pray too. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. Thats the mistake of the religious right in America... trying to dictate to others how to live.

I should be able to choose if I want to have a beer on Sunday or not. If I do and its a sin or whatever, how does that effect anyone but me?

The Germs: No God
I peered in every window where
I saw a cross
But I could never see just what they saw
In that piece of plaster on the wall,
See...there's no God to fear-
No God to hear your cries...

I'd prey to anything out there
If only I was given some sign to bear
But while I wait I'm gonna live,
See...there's no God to watch over me-
No God for human beings...

[leobond001]

Even in MAtthew, Jesus says to pray in private and not in public. And what i've gotten from the bible about the seperation of chruch and state is that is will always cause foolish arguments and debates.

I forgot the book in the Bible where it talks about not entering foolish conversations or arguments

[AirMax95]

you mean this local currency?

I do this to all my paper money.

that was put on the dollar bill in the late/middle 1950s.... america was not founded in the 1950s. it is an unconstitutional phrase when on something even as semi-federal as our money.

it was simply put there on order by a religious president to:
"In these days when imperialistic and materialistic Communism seeks to attack and destroy freedom, it is proper to remind all of us of this self-evident truth that as long as this country trusts in God, it will prevail."

which is a load of bullshit. any sort of god does not allow the country to "prevail". A communist is better than a theocrat.
Communism in europe rose up from the extreme power and wealth of the church clergy and tsar (kings as you know, have power given by god).... so it only makes sense that priests and stuff would go away with communism in those times.

I was not disputing the basis of this country's founding. I was typing a huge post, but stopped b/c I thought this thread would fail. The Treaty of Tripoli states that the U.S. was NOT founded on Christianity. Thomas Jefferson wrote majority of the Declareation of Independance, and chose to use "God" but in reference to "natures god". By TJ reference "God" in any form in the constitution, he screwed this document and any more after that.

The country went from Christian belief, to SOME adopting a deist belief of a supernatural "nature god", to the founders of the country rejecting Christianity in a country whose obvious dominant RELIGION was CHRISTIANITY. Now, tell me where anyone in this day and age can make light of this country's TRUE founding. The fence riding is sad in this country.

The U.S. was settled by Christians and has always had a Christian majority. The founding fathers were on the side of deism and Freemasonry beliefs (suspposedly). Now, if you know the history and clout of Freemasonry then you will understand where I am going. Rising up from arrest and forming a new view on life that STILL takes orthodox religious beliefs makes no sense. Being a deist is almost contradictory and assabackwards in its views. You don't believe in a "personal" god, yet you believe that some supernatural force (Natures god) created the earth and disappeared.

Bottom line, NO one on this earth can call the other crazy. 98% of religious kooks, diest, athiests, etc. do not know where their belief formed.......unless you just believe.

Like SUBY_RUE said, don't push your beliefs onto anyone. The finger pointing of people causes the uprising and conflict.

Edit: I do believe the idea that how a man chose to worship should remain only as his own personal business.