My thoughts...

[NEONRACER]

With all the debating that has gone on in this forum in the past couple of weeks, what has it really solved? I am all up for a good debate but religion is a very touchy subject to debate. In the end nobody is going to change there view on what they believe. I do want to vent some things though.

Religion/God is used as a crutch by most people to rationalize their lives. Whenever something bad happens it's god's will and god would never give me anything that I cannot handle. Whenever some good happens in ones life it's by god's grace. Where is the personal responsibility for you actions? I find it hard to believe that someone who is supposed to love everyone and everything would allow people to go through hardships, children being raped and 1,000's of other problems. I have had customers that can't finish a sentence without saying praise the lord between thoughts. ex: "I would like to pick this up on Monday, if the lord allows me to. (then both ladies say praise the lord to each other) I have a hard time believing that every moment of everyone's life is dictated by "God" and he has control over it like so many would like you to believe.

I would like you to answer this question. If the world suffered a great disaster like a meteor strike and 99.9% of the planet was wiped clean, and the few people who survived were from an obscure part of the world where god as we know it is not known, there are places like this still. If these people have no knowledge of the Bible and it's teachings what would happen? Would god come down and show them the way, or would god just vanish because all known existance of him has been wiped away?

If you look through history you will see where religion/church has been used for the motive to wage wars. This is happening right now in present day. Religion has been used to obtain power. The church had as much power or more as the king in ancient times. Church has always been a place of corruption and greed. Who is to say that the part of giving 10% of your wage to the church each week wasn't inserted as a way to take money from the people. I say this because god would have no use for your money so why would he ask for it. You can say to run the church and all but I just don't buy that. Research this and you will see throughout history the church has been a way to get rich. In present day people still use the church as a way to make money for themselves. I have plenty of "Pastors" come in and they drive $50,000 cars. When I was young my priest lived in the church and had 1 room to himself, drove the church car when he needed to. He gave himself to god. He did not open a church, buy a house and luxuary automobile with the Sunday offerings. Not all churchs are like this but I am seeing more and more of them.

If you really think about religion, it's original purpose is great. Human nature needs guidelines to live by, and a way to say what is right and wrong. If we did not have religion this world would be horrible. What is worse is now religion is actually turning the world into a horrible place to be. Everyone is separated by religion, the Muslims hate the christians, the Baptists disagree with the Catholics and so on and so on. Why is it that the one heavenly father has so many differently ways to worship him. Why is it that we wage wars in the name of religion, judge people in the name of religion, keep people downint he name of religion? How did religion get so far away from it's original intent?

My personal feeleing are these. Whether you believe in god or not really doesn't matter, what matters is you have faith. Have faith in your fellow man. Have faith that you will succeed if your life. Most importantly have faith in something, because without out you will lead a bleak existance.

[4dmin]

+10 good post... by the way if the idea of Jesus(GOD) was wiped from the planet then it would throw a quite a wrench in the scheme of things... b/c its like santa claus, he doesn't exsist if people don't believe

[Tracy]

Can we put all of these posts together in one thread? I'm getting lost! They're all really about the same topic. I'm enjoying them all...so I would like to not lose track.

[C22H19N3O4]

Neonracer, I agree with most of what you said. But, these "debates" are not meant to solve anything. It's an avenue to share ideas and perhaps open a new door to Creation and Evolution. Like most forums dedicated to religious discussion, the posts here revolve around the same handful of zealots that quote scripture and Google every response. The unfortunate result is that most Christian devotees will remark, " You're going to hell. Your day will come. You will be sorry when judgement day comes." Well, I live in Georgia so hell can't be all that bad. Living in the Bible Belt doesn't help matters when discussing religious issues. You can't go a block without seeing a church pop up. Churches have become a franchise in the south. If Christian values hold them together why not revere God in fewer Mega Churches? Why does every man of God have to open his own church? Why have Black churches and White churches? Affluent White churches wouldn't dare bus inner city minorites to their suburban church, b/c it might ruin there religious encounter with God for the week. I bet churches love the tax breaks. :jerkit:

Religion has been used as means of control for a very long time. Yes, religion was used as an excuse for many wars, and religions is used as pardon for heinous crimes. Christian doctrine is matter of convenience for most people. " Oh I cheated on my spouse, but God is loving and he will forgive me." When does the forgiveness well dry up? People need this faith in God to know when their lives end....it won't just end. They take solace in the fact that after 80 years of life, the fun won't just stop. The belief in Heaven makes their life that much more bearable. People need that reassurance that something good will come of their lives even though they did nothing in this life to aid humanity except quote scripture and blow up abortion clinics. Having faith and hope is a wonderful thing, but you have to realize that God doesn't control what you or anyone else. Morality is not just for religious fanatics.

[ironchef]

You know what i always wondered. If there is a god, why doesn't he/she give the church money? If he/she can make the earth, humans, animals and all that other good stuff, surely he/she can make some money to support all those churchs that support him/her. Which brings me to another point, for most of what I've heard or seen, what makes people believe that God is a he, howcome it cant be a she?

[Pedal]

^^^ because untill present times women have been inferior to men so therefore throught out history god has been a man

[4dmin]

if he/she/it is really a GOD they it would have no gender... your gender only is good for reproduction why would a GOD need to reproduce if he is the great creator.

[Killer]

^^^^ basically

The bible give's no certian description of God, but it does say He made man in His own image...(this is where most believe He looks like a man)(and the fact that He is our Heavenly Father) God made eve to adam's likings... His actuall "gender" is neither man nor woman as far as i believe...

[Jaimecbr900]

My personal feeleing are these. Whether you believe in god or not really doesn't matter, what matters is you have faith. Have faith in your fellow man. Have faith that you will succeed if your life. Most importantly have faith in something, because without out you will lead a bleak existance.

I followed your entire post until right here.

You were saying before that people use God as a crutch, but here you are advocating Faith in "something".

What if that "something" is God?

In other words, would you still feel the same if someone was perfectly content in having faith in God since that's having faith in "something" or are you saying they should have faith in "something" as long as it's NOT God since you feel that is a crutch???

[NEONRACER]

I understand what your saying but that was not my intention. Faith in God is used as a crutch for people to understand what is happening in there life. Having faith that I will succeed in my life will depend on how well I plan and execute myself throughout life. People always use the word faith to only mean faith in god. Have faith, god will see you throught this. I hear this and want ask the question, do you have faith in yourself? Do you have faith that you can overcome this hardship, can you improve you life? What is the point of living if you live your life as if God is dictating every aspect? Where is the personal responsibility? People of religious faith don't always take personal responsibility and say it's god's will that this happened. I see that as a crutch to take away the pain of them screwing up and to take the responsibility off themselves. Back tot he topic of faith.

I don't think it matters what you have faith in as long as you have faith. I never said it was wrong to have faith in God, I think without that faith alot of people would no know how to live in this world. The most important thing is to believe in somehting good, something positive whatever it may be. This world is full of shit, some of which is brought on by religion. Once again the idea and intent of religion is not bad, but what it has been turned into is what I don't like. Without faith in something you will have nothing, that is what I was trying to get at.

[Tracy]

I understand what your saying but that was not my intention. Faith in God is used as a crutch for people to understand what is happening in there life. Having faith that I will succeed in my life will depend on how well I plan and execute myself throughout life. People always use the word faith to only mean faith in god. Have faith, god will see you throught this. I hear this and want ask the question, do you have faith in yourself? Do you have faith that you can overcome this hardship, can you improve you life? What is the point of living if you live your life as if God is dictating every aspect? Where is the personal responsibility? People of religious faith don't always take personal responsibility and say it's god's will that this happened. I see that as a crutch to take away the pain of them screwing up and to take the responsibility off themselves. Back tot he topic of faith.

I don't think it matters what you have faith in as long as you have faith. I never said it was wrong to have faith in God, I think without that faith alot of people would no know how to live in this world. The most important thing is to believe in somehting good, something positive whatever it may be. This world is full of shit, some of which is brought on by religion. Once again the idea and intent of religion is not bad, but what it has been turned into is what I don't like. Without faith in something you will have nothing, that is what I was trying to get at.

I tried to say this also in anothe thread about faith. Faith doesn't always pertain to god. Faith=belief not faith=belief in god only.

[Jaimecbr900]

I understand what your saying but that was not my intention. Faith in God is used as a crutch for people to understand what is happening in there life. Having faith that I will succeed in my life will depend on how well I plan and execute myself throughout life. People always use the word faith to only mean faith in god. Have faith, god will see you throught this. I hear this and want ask the question, do you have faith in yourself? Do you have faith that you can overcome this hardship, can you improve you life? What is the point of living if you live your life as if God is dictating every aspect? Where is the personal responsibility? People of religious faith don't always take personal responsibility and say it's god's will that this happened. I see that as a crutch to take away the pain of them screwing up and to take the responsibility off themselves. Back tot he topic of faith.

I don't think it matters what you have faith in as long as you have faith. I never said it was wrong to have faith in God, I think without that faith alot of people would no know how to live in this world. The most important thing is to believe in somehting good, something positive whatever it may be. This world is full of shit, some of which is brought on by religion. Once again the idea and intent of religion is not bad, but what it has been turned into is what I don't like. Without faith in something you will have nothing, that is what I was trying to get at.

I see what you're saying. I respect that. And if I'm being honest, I have to agree with a vast majority of what you're saying.

The only point that I think I disagree most with in that statement is the highlighted one. I think that most true Christians would have an answer to that question. Personally, I think that's exactly what God wants everyone to do and what we should strive for. Again, that is simply my opinion based on what I believe. I think others may disagree, and that's OK. I also think that even if you are not a religious person per se, I still think most people truly believe that there is a higher power at work. What that is, it's name, it's function, and it's purpose is what sets everyone apart from one another.

[NEONRACER]

I understand that the bible teaches you to live your life for God but what I can't understand is how people give him credit for everything. If God gave man a free will then why is that everytime YOU do somehting in YOUR life that is great it is god's will, and when something in YOUR life goes wrong it's God's will? That is the exact opposite of what he was trying to teach. I see that as irresponsible. People have to have to push blame off on someone else instead of taking personal responsibility for their own actions. I am poor because god wants me to be, I am fat because god wants to be I get tired of hearing things like this, get off your fat lazy ass an get a job, and while your at it quit eating dings dongs and twinkies, ever think of that.

[Jaimecbr900]

I understand that the bible teaches you to live your life for God but what I can't understand is how people give him credit for everything. If God gave man a free will then why is that everytime YOU do somehting in YOUR life that is great it is god's will, and when something in YOUR life goes wrong it's God's will? That is the exact opposite of what he was trying to teach. I see that as irresponsible. People have to have to push blame off on someone else instead of taking personal responsibility for their own actions. I am poor because god wants me to be, I am fat because god wants to be I get tired of hearing things like this, get off your fat lazy ass an get a job, and while your at it quit eating dings dongs and twinkies, ever think of that.

Just think of it as making lemonade with the lemons you're dealt. Some people want to be thankful to God for what they have or don't have, while others don't at all.

Part of the reason people give him credit for "everything" is because they may believe everything does originate from God. Again, this is assuming the person professing that is a true Christian.