Obama shifts stance on offshore oil drilling

[The12lber]

Look, i'm at work and i can check the site periodically. So im not gonna write an essay. If the only way you can get self assurance is to win an argument on a forum. Then good for you but i'm not that concerned about it.

The point was that if you're not going to even produce a sentence or two's worth of explanation, its not worth saying.

Lol @ the petty insult by the way, I'll respond in kind: you're addressing your own insecurities about your perception of your own intelligence by intimating something negative about me.

[EJ25RUN]

Lol @ the petty insult by the way, I'll respond in kind: you're addressing your own insecurities about your perception of your own intelligence by intimating something negative about me.

If that makes you feel better, think what you want.

[The12lber]

If that makes you feel better, think what you want.

If I'm not mistaken you're the one who introduced baseless insults into the dialogue champ.

[EJ25RUN]

If I'm not mistaken you're the one who introduced baseless insults into the dialogue champ.

Ok. Im done. "Dialogue Champ" lol

[Alan®]

If you weren't talking out your ass you'd know he only plans to increase taxes for people making more than 250,000k a year.

And maybe if you pulled your head out of yours you'd realize that he's going to raise them on just about everyone except those just barely making ends meet.

Also those making $250-$1,000,000 a year are typically small business owners and last I checked that's what was helping out a lot with our economy.

It's amazing to me that people still to this day continue to say "TAX THE RICH THEY HAVE TO MUCH " Most of the people in this country who Obama would consider "rich" are people that are supposedly just like him. Grew up with nothing worked their ass off to get to where they are now but yet he and the rest of the government want to take almost half if not more when you add in state taxes.

[allmotoronly]

And maybe if you pulled your head out of yours you'd realize that he's going to raise them on just about everyone except those just barely making ends meet.

Also those making $250-$1,000,000 a year are typically small business owners and last I checked that's what was helping out a lot with our economy.

It's amazing to me that people still to this day continue to say "TAX THE RICH THEY HAVE TO MUCH " Most of the people in this country who Obama would consider "rich" are people that are supposedly just like him. Grew up with nothing worked their ass off to get to where they are now but yet he and the rest of the government want to take almost half if not more when you add in state taxes.

I've been trying to explain the same thing redGT... Some people (those who don't make enough money to care whether taxes are raised) will never get it.\


btw the12lber, what exactly do you do for a living? Apparently you don't make much money... If you did you would care if a presidential candidate was proposing to raise taxes... Since you have nitpicked everything I've said about how much money I make (i've been trying to be discrete about it and not give an exact number) I guess I'll tell you. By march I should be making about $84k. As soon as I'm done with my masters degree I should be making close to $85/hr. Considering I work at least 48 hours a week, that should put me in at around $230k. My wife will be making the same. Thats why I care so much about tax rates. 2 years or so after I complete my masters I should be making closer to $100/hr, which equates to $270k/yr. Supposing that my wife and I only work 35-40 hours a week, we should be making around $350k together. That means that the government will be getting at least $90k of out yearly income... Thats more than most middle class families make in a year!!!

I'm really tired of talking about this. Nothing you can say will make me feel better letting the government take that much of my hard earned money. I see your points, I just do not agree.

[Roadster]

Lol @ the petty insult by the way, I'll respond in kind: you're addressing your own insecurities about your perception of your own intelligence by intimating something negative about me.

And you're doing your damndest to use big words to make your arguments seem legitimate and intimidating. Nice job. And when you scanned the trusty thesaurus for a synonym for "saying"; "intimating" was probably the least appropriate choice.

I agree wholeheartedly with Allmotoronly and all of those in this thread that wish to keep the government out of their lives and pockets. McCain is my choice.

[Alan®]

I've been trying to explain the same thing redGT... Some people (those who don't make enough money to care whether taxes are raised) will never get it.\


btw the12lber, what exactly do you do for a living? Apparently you don't make much money... If you did you would care if a presidential candidate was proposing to raise taxes... Since you have nitpicked everything I've said about how much money I make (i've been trying to be discrete about it and not give an exact number) I guess I'll tell you. By march I should be making about $84k. As soon as I'm done with my masters degree I should be making close to $85/hr. Considering I work at least 48 hours a week, that should put me in at around $230k. My wife will be making the same. Thats why I care so much about tax rates. 2 years or so after I complete my masters I should be making closer to $100/hr, which equates to $270k/yr. Supposing that my wife and I only work 35-40 hours a week, we should be making around $350k together. That means that the government will be getting at least $90k of out yearly income... Thats more than most middle class families make in a year!!!

I'm really tired of talking about this. Nothing you can say will make me feel better letting the government take that much of my hard earned money. I see your points, I just do not agree.

If not more if Obama gets what he wants if/when he gets in and removes or raises the social security cap.

[Alan®]

I will say this though.

Romney>McCain>Obama

In that order.

[tony]

What you guys who support McSame are referring to is Supply Side Economics, it is theoretical that tax cuts for the wealthy will trickle down to the common man and benefit all. I looked up this data but this theory was pursued during the Reagan administration, the result:

1. It is true that the economy grew quite fast from 1983 to 1989 but such a pickup in growth was a standard recovery of growth and fall of unemployment from the depths of the severe recession of 1981-1982 (the unemployment rate went above 10% in 1982).

2. The private saving rate continued to decline slowly in the 1980s. In the 1973-1980, private saving averaged 7.8 percent of the economy, and dropped to 6.9% in 1986 and 4.8% in 1989. In other words, the saving rate was significantly lower after the 1981 tax cut than before it.

3. The labor force grew at an average rate of 1.6% over the 1982-89 period, about the same as during the previous four years.

4. Overall labor productivity grew rapidly before 1973 and much less rapidly since then. In the entire period after 1973, the annual growth rate of productivity has been very close to 1.1 percent. It average around 1.1 percent also in the 1980s.

5. Budget deficits that were equal to 40b US$ in 1979 (-1.7% of GDP) and 74b US $ in 1980 (-2.7% of GDP) increased to 221b US $ by 1986 (5.2% of GDP).

6. The public debt to GDP ratio increased from 26.1% in 1979 to 41.2% in 1986.

And we now see the result with the Bush tax cuts as well. Lets face it, countries that Tax but take care of their citizens are thriving while the great U.S doesn't even function off of its own supply of oil, it borrows from the nation whose economic policy you frown upon to fund a war against a faction that we not only support but remains wealthy due to our dependence on foreign oil.

Sorry, the state of the economy is proof in the pudding that Republicans have lost their identity and don't know what the hell they're doing. We tried tax cuts and we got f.ucked, so I don't care any more... tax everyone and let them whine. (Including the muthaf.ucking rich)

[BanginJimmy]

tax everyone and let them whine. (Including the muthaf.ucking rich)

I agree. Everyone pays 15% of their income in taxes. No deductions, no shelters, no nothing. This alone would eliminate 80% of the tax code.

The rich pay their 15% on 1 million, and the poor pay 15% on their 15k.

[NevrNufTorq]

I agree. Everyone pays 15% of their income in taxes. No deductions, no shelters, no nothing. This alone would eliminate 80% of the tax code.

The rich pay their 15% on 1 million, and the poor pay 15% on their 15k.

if that were true, i'd be shout ing for joy!!! but i personally believe below 20k you shouldnt have to pay taxes or get a greatly cut rate

only prob i have with taxing corporate profits is that we'll all end up paying for it in the end, not them...i know, b/c my company does the same as most big corporations, taxes are equated into a cost, if they go up, so does my price!!! and since most, if not all larger companies follow this same plan, my price wouldnt put me out of the market b/c the other companies are getting taxed also...now if any of the candidates would investigate market manipulation i'd be all for that!!! that way no set of corporations or group could just go up on prices and make record profits just b/c they can and we have no choice in the matter!! but i'm sorry for those that think tax the corporation will work, it wont, sorry to bust your bubble...at least in the sense that it will make corporations or companies be more responsible about setting their prices.

my take and my as always fellas...always enjoy these sort of posts to get the feel of other people...funny when you talk face to face alot of people wont rock the boat but on a forum you can get a deeper conversation going on a topic

[BanginJimmy]

if that were true, i'd be shout ing for joy!!! but i personally believe below 20k you shouldnt have to pay taxes or get a greatly cut rate

nope, no breaks for anyone. Everyone pays their fair share of the taxes. In fact, if you receive welfare, your chare of the taxes goes up. If you drive multiple vehicles, your share goes up. I think you get the point.

[allmotoronly]

Yea the fair tax would be awesome, but it will probably never happen.

[Spektrewing386]

from a CNN poll in response to Paris Hilton's video against the new McCain ad:


Whose energy plan shows the most promise?
John McCain's 27% 25027
Barack Obama's 33% 30556
Paris Hilton's 39% 35845
Total Votes: 91428

[BanginJimmy]

from a CNN poll in response to Paris Hilton's video against the new McCain ad:


Whose energy plan shows the most promise?
John McCain's 27% 25027
Barack Obama's 33% 30556
Paris Hilton's 39% 35845
Total Votes: 91428

I think this is proof positive that neither canidate has a clue how to deal with the energy issues without upsetting the lobbiests that own them.

[EJ25RUN]

I think this is proof positive that neither canidate has a clue how to deal with the energy issues without upsetting the lobbiests that own them.

Yeah, i for one don't think Nuclear power is the answer. Not because i'm scared of a melt down but it takes allot of money and i don't believe they are great for the environment.

[Spektrewing386]

nuclear power only admits steam into the atmosphere, and the harmful stuff can be safely contained. todays reactors are very safe.

[tony]

Yeah, i for one don't think Nuclear power is the answer. Not because i'm scared of a melt down but it takes allot of money and i don't believe they are great for the environment.

Aside from Nuclear waste, Nuclear energy is extremely efficient. With technologies today, after the initial investment the costs are minimal and the effects on environment are nil.

[EJ25RUN]

Aside from Nuclear waste, Nuclear energy is extremely efficient. With technologies today, after the initial investment the costs are minimal and the effects on environment are nil.

I see. I need to do more homework on it.

[alpine_aw11]

Nuclear power is definitely going to be put in place much more in the near future, the public is just too scared of it right now. Once everyone is educated on the facts that it's pretty much exclusively benefitial it will be used much more. We just need to find a place for that ****in toxic waste...

[BanginJimmy]

There are ways that it is being re-used in a way that drasticly lowers the half life of the material.

http://world-nuclear.org/info/inf69.html

[The12lber]

And you're doing your damndest to use big words to make your arguments seem legitimate and intimidating. Nice job. And when you scanned the trusty thesaurus for a synonym for "saying"; "intimating" was probably the least appropriate choice.

That's probably because they're not synonyms smart guy.

Intimating
verb (used with object), -mat·ed, -mat·ing. 1.to indicate or make known indirectly; hint; imply; suggest.

I'd like for someone to actual provide legitimate counterpoints to my argument, rather than sophomoric and unfounded crap like

YOU MUST NOT MAKE A LOT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT AS GREEDY AS ME LOL

YOU JUST USE BIG WORDS LOL

OBAMA IS GONNA TAX EVERYONE MORE... HE NEVER SAID HE WOULD, BUT I KNOW HE IS BECAUSE I JUST KNWO THIS ****

etc

Until someone can do that, don't post in reply to me with baseless crap. Oh, and you especially should stop posting because apparently you're a pretty dumb mother****er.

[The12lber]

I think this is proof positive that neither canidate has a clue how to deal with the energy issues without upsetting the lobbiests that own them.

You realize polls aren't actually evidence of anything except that <X> number of <Y> replies were received, right? You can really only cite polling data as evidence of something in certain situations. Polling doctors regarding medical procedures. Lawyers specializing in Constitutional Law about the constitutionality of a certain public policy. Economists about the economy. Not a bunch of people who are in regards to the topic at hand, mostly ignorant fools.

[The12lber]

What you guys who support McSame are referring to is Supply Side Economics, it is theoretical that tax cuts for the wealthy will trickle down to the common man and benefit all.

As an economist, I can confidently say the vast majority of us agree that the policies to come out of Supply Side economic theory is were ineffective.

As an unrelated side note, roughly 80% of United States economists support redistrubition in some way/shape/form. To all the rtards bitching about higher taxes on the wealthy.

[Maniacc]

I will say this though.

Romney>McCain>Obama

In that order.

And I will say this.

Obama > Romney > McCain. In that order. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_116632.html lol @ McCain. I'd have more respect for your choice if you told me you were voting for McCain because you flipped a coin. Just sayin'

[The12lber]

And I will say this.

Obama > Romney > McCain. In that order. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_116632.html lol @ McCain. I'd have more respect for your choice if you told me you were voting for McCain because you flipped a coin. Just sayin'

Romney, in the debates, validated his support for the Iraq war by relating it to 9/11.

That's right. There's still people who think Iraq was in on 9/11. And probably the assassination of JFK, the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa and the crucifixition of Jesus, too.

As a side note and further reply to the person who said I used a thesaurus to make my replies rich in complex vocabulary but lacking in substance, some people like myself went and got an education and are therefore able to reach into our brains for information (such as the words you declared "big") rather than simply being ignorant.

lol @ you for being insecure when it became apparent to you that your intellect, in comparison to mine, is feeble and thus went out of your way to say that I must not actually be as intelligent as I seem in order to comfort yourself.

[NevrNufTorq]

Aside from Nuclear waste, Nuclear energy is extremely efficient. With technologies today, after the initial investment the costs are minimal and the effects on environment are nil.

not to mention that we are practically the only country not using it to ots potential also...practically all of eastern europe is using it!!! and using it safely and just the cut in gases emitted the atmosphere should make all those greenpeace guys jump for joy!!

[Maniacc]

Romney, in the debates, validated his support for the Iraq war by relating it to 9/11.

That's right. There's still people who think Iraq was in on 9/11. And probably the assassination of JFK, the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa and the crucifixition of Jesus, too.

I personally know nothing about Romney. RedGT put him after McCain so I just decided to turn it around. I don't support anything that man does so I'd rather ignore anything he has to say. If he's one of the people who thinks Iraq had something to do with 9/11 then he and his supporters are a bunch of buffoons.

For McCain lovers take a look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZl...eature=related

His style of speech rivals that of my 10 year old nephew. Why would anyone with any common sense vote for this dipsh*t? I just don't understand what everyone sees in him to think he'll be a better president than Obama.

[Alan®]

I personally know nothing about Romney. RedGT put him after McCain so I just decided to turn it around. I don't support anything that man does so I'd rather ignore anything he has to say. If he's one of the people who thinks Iraq had something to do with 9/11 then he and his supporters are a bunch of buffoons.

For McCain lovers take a look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZl...eature=related

His style of speech rivals that of my 10 year old nephew. Why would anyone with any common sense vote for this dipsh*t? I just don't understand what everyone sees in him to think he'll be a better president than Obama.

Wow you know what. I was actually willing to give you a shot on this board but by calling people who agree with a canidate a "buffons" is uncalled for.

And BTW I put Romney ahead of McCain AND OBAMA.

[Maniacc]

Wow you know what. I was actually willing to give you a shot on this board but by calling people who agree with a canidate a "buffons" is uncalled for.

And BTW I put Romney ahead of McCain AND OBAMA.

Excuse me? Give me a shot? Hah, hilarious, simply hilarious. What makes you think I care what you have to say in this matter? I called Romney supporters buffoons because anyone who still thinks terrorist were the cause of what happened on 9/11 are just that, buffoons, imbeciles, morons. You get the point.

So you put Romney infront of McCain. Uh, k. I put Obama infront of them, so what? That doesn't change the fact that you're a buffoon.

[Alan®]

Excuse me? Give me a shot? Hah, hilarious, simply hilarious. What makes you think I care what you have to say in this matter? I called Romney supporters buffoons because anyone who still thinks terrorist were the cause of what happened on 9/11 are just that, buffoons, imbeciles, morons. You get the point.

So you put Romney infront of McCain. Uh, k. I put Obama infront of them, so what? That doesn't change the fact that you're a buffoon.

Your posts continue to show just how much of a buffon you are. It's amazing to me how just about everyone else on here can have a civilized discussion on candates and politics WITHOUT calling others names for their views yet you come on here and immediately start insulting people.

Ad hominem. Look it up. You'll find it's one of the worst ways to make your point. Hence why it makes the list of Logical Fallacies

[Maniacc]

*Crying pretty hard over it*

Hey, that's sweet and all. But I don't really care to discuss politics with you.

[The12lber]

Wow you know what. I was actually willing to give you a shot on this board but by calling people who agree with a canidate a "buffons" is uncalled for.

And BTW I put Romney ahead of McCain AND OBAMA.

Romney's a pretty remarkable candidate actually. Until you get to his foreign policy. At that point I thought to myself "holy ****, this man is a ****ing idiot". It was a real buzzkill for me.

I did some fairly thorough research on candidates in my down time, and probably my largest disappointment was in McCain.

The least surprising was probably Giuliani. A loud mouthed, arrogant, aggressive, ignorant mayor with presidential aspirations. He's truly the white version of Ahmadinejad (the Iranian president who was formerly mayor of Tehran).