Do you believe we are alone in this Universe???

[Jaimecbr900]

None of those telescopes are powerful enough (or even close) to find a populated planet outside our solar system. Unless you mean radio telescopes. Even then it's like finding a needle in a haystack without being able to see all of the haystack or knowing what the needle looks like.

Scientists have yet to find any forms of real life anywhere in outer space at all. The most powerful radio telescope in the entire known universe is in Puerto Rico and it is said to be able to "see" into far far outerspace. How come in the 40+ years that it has been in existance and one of it's functions IS in fact to search for extraterrestrial existance the observatory has found NONE at all????? That telescope is strong enough to do it, then why hasn't it found any????

The absence of proof is not the proof of it's opposite.

But sometimes the lack of it speaks volumes.

As for the bible saying God created us in his likeness. You are making the rather bold assumption that everything in the bible is not only true but literal (I assume, I don't know off-hand what that passage says exactly).

You're welcomed to join our lively discussion on this very subject in the other thread.

[AWD OWNZ U]

Scientists have yet to find any forms of real life anywhere in outer space at all. The most powerful radio telescope in the entire known universe is in Puerto Rico and it is said to be able to "see" into far far outerspace. How come in the 40+ years that it has been in existance and one of it's functions IS in fact to search for extraterrestrial existance the observatory has found NONE at all????? That telescope is strong enough to do it, then why hasn't it found any????

Probably because the odds are astronomically against it. Not to mention in order to pick up a radio signal you need not only intelligent life, but advanced life. Plus it needs to have been advanced long enough to transmit a radio signal to within range of our telescopes. We don't even know how many planets (not even fucking close) are in the universe let alone if they are populated.

But sometimes the lack of it speaks volumes.

Kind of like the lack of evidence for the truth of the bible? Or is that different? Sometimes it speaks volumes, but this is definitely not one of those cases.

You're welcomed to join our lively discussion on this very subject in the other thread.

Maybe later, I'm too tired to care right now.

[Jaimecbr900]

Probably because the odds are astronomically against it.

Kinda like the odds of "them" being there since there hasn't been a peep heard or seen in the entire history of the world.

Not to mention in order to pick up a radio signal you need not only intelligent life, but advanced life. Plus it needs to have been advanced long enough to transmit a radio signal to within range of our telescopes. We don't even know how many planets (not even fucking close) are in the universe let alone if they are populated.



Kind of like the lack of evidence for the truth of the bible? Or is that different? Sometimes it speaks volumes, but this is definitely not one of those cases.

Again, what's ironic is that although everyone here trying to convince others that life exists somewhere out there in that "infinite vast space" we know soooo little about even by all yall's admission, THAT to you guys is far more possible than the BIBLE.....

The irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Yall fall over yourself to try and convince someone that something exists although it's NEVER been seen or heard from, yet act like people that believe someone of flesh and blood that existed 2000 years ago are just plum crazy........yall believe life exists based on FAITH and yet having the same FAITH in something that has tangible proof in WRITTEN HISTORY is NOT possible???.

How can you anyone say in one breath that our "minds can't imagine" the vastness of space, yet in the next breath question the Bible using that same and self admitted limited mind??????

[Ncturnal]

How can you anyone say in one breath that our "minds can't imagine" the vastness of space, yet in the next breath question the Bible using that same and self admitted limited mind??????

It was written by humans. In light of that, questioning it is quite reasonable. The only limited minds are the ones that buy into that BS and don't question it. I also never said that there is life outside of our planet, but considering it goes for infinity, it is reasonable to think that there is. The truth of the matter is we don't really know for sure on either subject, gods or galaxies. We are humans. We are stupid. :jerkit: I wonder if in 2000 years people will believe L. Rob Hubbard was some kind of prophet and messenger of God.

[Jaimecbr900]

It was written by humans.

Who else WOULD write anything down? The aliens that don't exist????

I know where you're going with it, but think about this:

I'll buy into yall's logic for a sec that if a human wrote and humans are fallable, then there is possibility of fallability in their writtings. Then how come it is that using that same logic, yall's logic, is it possible that we KNOW beyond any doubt what is and what isn't outer space. In other words, if humans make massive mistakes such as, according to yall, the Bible then is it possible that they be sooooo right about space?????

You can't have it both ways. Humans are humans when it comes to writting the Bible yet omnipotent about space.

The only limited minds are the ones that buy into that BS and don't question it.

Why? Because it makes someone "smart" by merely questioning something? Any simpleton can question ANYTHING....it doesn't change that they're a simpleton.

I also never said that there is life outside of our planet, but considering it goes for infinity, it is reasonable to think that there is. The truth of the matter is we don't really know for sure on either subject, gods or galaxies. We are humans. We are stupid. :jerkit: I wonder if in 2000 years people will believe L. Rob Hubbard was some kind of prophet and messenger of God.

If you have no faith that's your perrogative, but it's awful crass to then say that if someone else does they are stupid.

[AWD OWNZ U]

Kinda like the odds of "them" being there since there hasn't been a peep heard or seen in the entire history of the world.

No actually not at all. I don't think you quite grasp the situation to be honest. Let's say you are standing in the middle of downtown ATL. I give you a pair of binoculars and ask you to find a polar bear. Would you be able to find it? Even if you look for 40 years? Now imagine the earth is thousands of times larger and the polar bear thousands of times smaller. That's probably too optimistic of a scale to be honest.

Again, what's ironic is that although everyone here trying to convince others that life exists somewhere out there in that "infinite vast space" we know soooo little about even by all yall's admission, THAT to you guys is far more possible than the BIBLE.....

We've had hundreds of thousands of people for thousands of years dedicate there lives to finding God and they have come up with no tangible proof. We've had a handful of people look part time for maybe 30-40 years for aliens with the same result. Believing in which one seems more foolish with your logic?

Yall fall over yourself to try and convince someone that something exists although it's NEVER been seen or heard from, yet act like people that believe someone of flesh and blood that existed 2000 years ago are just plum crazy........yall believe life exists based on FAITH and yet having the same FAITH in something that has tangible proof in WRITTEN HISTORY is NOT possible???.

I'm not trying to convince you that anything exists. Just that closing your mind to the possibilty is foolish.

How can you anyone say in one breath that our "minds can't imagine" the vastness of space, yet in the next breath question the Bible using that same and self admitted limited mind??????

That's simple, they are completely different. If you started counting right now by the time you die the number you were at wouldn't be anywhere near the size of universe. Yet I can read the bible in a week or so.

[Jaimecbr900]

No actually not at all. I don't think you quite grasp the situation to be honest. Let's say you are standing in the middle of downtown ATL. I give you a pair of binoculars and ask you to find a polar bear. Would you be able to find it? Even if you look for 40 years? Now imagine the earth is thousands of times larger and the polar bear thousands of times smaller. That's probably too optimistic of a scale to be honest.

You just made my point abundantly clear. Even though the "odds" are infinitely stacked against you or anyone else EVER PROVING that there is ANY other life forms out there, YALL STILL BELIEVE THERE IS. Yet in the very next breath you chastise people like myself that believe in something far more LIKELY, even by your own admissions, like God and Jesus.

That's what I've been saying all along, but yall want to fight me tooth and nail about it. Is that reasoning not tangible enough for you?

We've had hundreds of thousands of people for thousands of years dedicate there lives to finding God and they have come up with no tangible proof. We've had a handful of people look part time for maybe 30-40 years for aliens with the same result. Believing in which one seems more foolish with your logic?

Again, no tangible proof for non-believers like yourself. As I explained clearly already several times, BELIEVERS got to be BELIEVERS because they got ALL the "proof" they needed to BELIEVE. YOU on the other hand need a signed note from God himself, Jesus' femur bone fossilized on the side of mountain, and an Angel to deliver it all in order to "believe".

BTW, you forgot to consider ancient astronomers, and even millions of ancient people that worshiped everything from the Sun to the Stars too. So it's not merely a "handful of people looking part time" as you say. There are many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people from scientists that dedicate their lives to finding life outside our solar system to the amateur with a fancy high power telescope to ancient people that have been gazing up at the stars for eons now. They've seen comets, asteroids, pulsars, black holes, and even rings on planets, but yet no forms of life.

Again, it's simply ironic that you guys hold that much hope for something that is far LESS likely to EVER be "proven", yet yall trip all over yourselves to try and "prove" the Bible is wrong.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe in miracles or do you believe in chance?

I'm not trying to convince you that anything exists. Just that closing your mind to the possibilty is foolish.

My mind is far from closed. If it were, I'd left this futile discussion long ago.

That's simple, they are completely different. If you started counting right now by the time you die the number you were at wouldn't be anywhere near the size of universe. Yet I can read the bible in a week or so.

Again, my point proven yet again.

You CAN hold the Bible in your hands, i.e. tangible. You CAN'T hold an alien in your hand, i.e. NOT tangible. Yet you believe the NON-tangible over the other because what????? There is NO proof Jesus ever existed in YOUR mind but of something that has never been seen in the entire history of the world....THAT you have an "open" mind about and BELIEVE exists?????

Got it. That makes complete sense.

[AWD OWNZ U]

You just made my point abundantly clear. Even though the "odds" are infinitely stacked against you or anyone else EVER PROVING that there is ANY other life forms out there, YALL STILL BELIEVE THERE IS. Yet in the very next breath you chastise people like myself that believe in something far more LIKELY, even by your own admissions, like God and Jesus.

That's what I've been saying all along, but yall want to fight me tooth and nail about it. Is that reasoning not tangible enough for you?

I think you are getting a bit confused here. The odds of there being life besides us in the Universe and the odds of us finding it are not the same thing. Even if we never find it before humankind goes extinct that does not prove it doesn't exist. Like I said before lack of proof is not proof of it's opposite. I don't not believe in God because there is no proof, I don't believe in God because it makes no sense. It's possible that a christian God exists just not probable.

Again, no tangible proof for non-believers like yourself. As I explained clearly already several times, BELIEVERS got to be BELIEVERS because they got ALL the "proof" they needed to BELIEVE. YOU on the other hand need a signed note from God himself, Jesus' femur bone fossilized on the side of mountain, and an Angel to deliver it all in order to "believe".

You can believe in anything, that doesn't make it true. Believing in something that can never be proven and, to me at least, doesn't make sense is foolish. If you have some type of divine faith then good for you but don't try to chastize the rest of us for thinking through things before we submit to them.

BTW, you forgot to consider ancient astronomers, and even millions of ancient people that worshiped everything from the Sun to the Stars too. So it's not merely a "handful of people looking part time" as you say. There are many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people from scientists that dedicate their lives to finding life outside our solar system to the amateur with a fancy high power telescope to ancient people that have been gazing up at the stars for eons now. They've seen comets, asteroids, pulsars, black holes, and even rings on planets, but yet no forms of life.

Ancient astronomers had no chance of finding extraterrestrials. Only people with advanced equipment have even the minute possibilty. So really it has only been a handful of people.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe in miracles or do you believe in chance?

I don't believe in miracles and I suppose it depends on your definition of chance.

Again, my point proven yet again.

You CAN hold the Bible in your hands, i.e. tangible. You CAN'T hold an alien in your hand, i.e. NOT tangible. Yet you believe the NON-tangible over the other because what????? There is NO proof Jesus ever existed in YOUR mind but of something that has never been seen in the entire history of the world....THAT you have an "open" mind about and BELIEVE exists?????

Got it. That makes complete sense.

No one is arguing that the Bible doesn't exist. I can hold a telescope in my hand is that tangible enough for you? I can even prove the telescope works.

[Jaimecbr900]

I think you are getting a bit confused here. The odds of there being life besides us in the Universe and the odds of us finding it are not the same thing. Even if we never find it before humankind goes extinct that does not prove it doesn't exist. Like I said before lack of proof is not proof of it's opposite. I don't not believe in God because there is no proof, I don't believe in God because it makes no sense. It's possible that a christian God exists just not probable.

I'm crystal clear on this actually. You on the other hand are double talking.

"Even if we never find it...it doesn't prove it doesn't exist", "lack of proof is not proof of it's opposite", "I don't believe in God because it makes no sense".....you say all that only to finish the very same paragraph with...."It's possible that a Christian God exists, just not probable"....?????

You are full of double talk there. Again, I guess you think that riding the fence is the safest bet to make. Make whatever choices make you sleep better at night. You still didn't say a darn thing in that paragraph because you contradicted yourself over and over again. Just double talk.

You can believe in anything, that doesn't make it true.

It does for me, and that's all that matters. If you don't want to believe something, you simply don't. That's your choice.

Believing in something that can never be proven and, to me at least, doesn't make sense is foolish.

Again, double talk.

Just a few sentences earlier you were telling me that we will probably NEVER "prove" other life forms exist in the universe and I quote, "before human kind goes extinct", yet YOU STILL believe it exists. Explain to me how "not finding it before human kind goes extinct" PROVES anything to you.

So even you admit that's foolish, huh?

Double talk.

If you have some type of divine faith then good for you but don't try to chastize the rest of us for thinking through things before we submit to them.

I have not chastized a single person that didn't chastize me first. I've made a very conscious effort to not take the pulpit and rain down fire and brimstone about faith because I think that is counter productive.

I'm also not going to stand here and ride the fence about something I'm clear about either.

Only people with advanced equipment have even the minute possibilty. So really it has only been a handful of people.

Which we have now, right?

There are also far more than a "handful of people" working at just the Arecibo Observatory. Here you go, just at a quick glance of the directory I'd say there are atleast 50 FULL TIME scientists, engineers, and computer techs working at just that observatory:
http://www.naic.edu/directory/staffdir_set.htm

To further illustrate this, why don't you read this about SETI (which stands for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence)?:

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/o...ke_000407.html

Here is also a rather long list of other radio telescope sights from around the world. Again, proof positive that there are far more than merele a "handful" of people peering up at the skies trying to find aliens:

http://www.r-clarke.org.uk/astrolinks_radio.htm

Again, this is merely for radio telescopes. There are far more optical telescope sites and observatories than radio telescopes. Would you like a few links to those places?

So do you still stand by the notion that only a "handful" of people are looking for your aliens still?????

I don't believe in miracles and I suppose it depends on your definition of chance.

Paul started another thread about this very subject, so I'll defer to that thread for this discussion.

No one is arguing that the Bible doesn't exist. I can hold a telescope in my hand is that tangible enough for you? I can even prove the telescope works.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China???? :confused:

The mere existance of a Bible is sometimes tangible proof that Jesus existed. I emphasize sometimes because to some people like you guys that's not enough. I understand that and respect that, hence this discussion's entire reason for going in many directions. But the fact that you guys are questioning the validity of it's contents by using such conclusions as "Jesus' body has never been recovered" or "they don't mention Jesus in Roman history" leads me to believe that you guys are wanting tangible proof to make up your mind. The Bible is one of only many tangible proofs I can offer. It's obvious that you guys don't want to accept that, and I'm OK with that. I'm no Bible scholar. I don't own a business whose only purpose is to convert non-believers. So, I can only do what I think is right, and I don't take it personal that you guys don't believe me. I can only explain it the way I understand it and believe it. Neither one of you guys HAVE to believe any of it. That is not going to be a reflection on me because I can lead you to water but I can't make you drink.

[ahmonrah]

.....Scientists have yet to find any forms of real life anywhere in outer space at all. The most powerful radio telescope in the entire known universe is in Puerto Rico and it is said to be able to "see" into far far outerspace. How come in the 40+ years that it has been in existance and one of it's functions IS in fact to search for extraterrestrial existance the observatory has found NONE at all????? That telescope is strong enough to do it, then why hasn't it found any?......

who's to say that life on another planet has not been found... but we have not been told so to keep some sort of order in the world. there are plenty of things that are terrestrial issues that have occured in other parts of the world (and if this country), but for the sake of "national security" the public has been denied information that maybe important to us and our well being.

one one program on discovery i watched some time ago posed a question to a scientist. they asked if they discovered an asteroid heading our way one year away, on a collision course, would they inform the public. he said no because doing so would cause panic and chaos and people would no longer adhere to laws and disorder would reign(those werent his exact words but that was exactly what he was saying.)