Now that makes so much sense. You made a believer out of me.Originally Posted by Ran
Praise Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that makes so much sense. You made a believer out of me.
Praise Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
I just like playing Devil's Advocate in these types of discussions.
Well - I want to go to hell, at least I will see familiar faces there. If I go to heaven I will only know my grandma --- I mean, she's kool and all - but not some1 I wanna hang out with on a regular basis.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Actually Atheism is the complete opposite
A = opposing to
Theism = The belief in one or more Gods or Dieties.
Atheism is a position. Not a religion.
I think there is a good argument on religious or scientific thoughts. Im with tiger on this. I dont care whether the bible states the truth. I live my life the way I feel I need to. I don't commit crimes that are either illegal or go against the majority of religious texts (anyone who knows me = keep your mouth shut about the past) so I try to live a decent life. If I am going to Hell for that, then so be it.
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
For the sake of accuracy, the absence of god or supernatural beliefs doesn't necessarily make something not a religion. All you need for something to be considered a "religion" - ritual/organized ceremony, coherent set of beliefs/morals and the notion of metaphysical concepts.
Then you can break things into supernatural or naturalist.
That being said, Atheism isn't a religion not because of the absence of god but because Atheism isn't really any one thing - its just the absence of something. Not a coherent set of beliefs etc.
Well I try not to post about anything factual without research.
Try it. It does wonders
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
LOL thanks baby j. You bumped the thread with an awesome post!
So who here wants to continue with this topic? Im game.
Im good too. Give me about 45 to get home from work.
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
Im sure it'll take you longer since you drive a slow neon. LOL
But for us to continue we're gonna need members who disagree with the way we see this topic. I doubt they have the balls to post in here, jesus christ is going to tell them that its not worth it and to go donate 10% to their church instead.
Turn the other cheek..... Dont forget about that one.
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
That shit cracks me up right there
FUCK GRAN TURISMO EAST!! NEVER TAKE YOUR CAR THERE, ESPECIALLY NOT FOR AN ALIGNMENT!! TERRIBLE BUSINESS!!
I've already had some good debates in here with some knowledgeable people. I'm down for some more, there just really isn't a specific topic right now though. i mean obviously god vs. science but there are hundreds of smaller topics to debate beneath that as this thread shows.
ATL_DA_Squad #3
STREET<3LOVE
You seem to be confused. A lack of a god does not mean it isn't a religion:
14 results for: religion
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
Seems like pretty much all of those fit atheism and all other religions fairly well.
The problem is not the belief in a "god," it is the never ending battle between religions to spread their beliefs.
I like to consider myself antireligious.
Last edited by man; 04-01-2008 at 09:56 PM.
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Eh, I just like throwing out actual stuff from the Bible for debating purposes. These people that post about going to Heaven or Hell are those that simply regurgitate what they're fed by the fire & brimstone preachers they listen to. If anyone were to actually read the book and apply the scriptures, they would know that about 80% of current Christian congregations twist and contort the original scriptures to scare people into believing.
That shit cracks me up right there
While I'm still on the fence about where my beliefs lie, I do know my fair share about the good book in it's original context.
Wrong. the misconception about Atheists is that we believe God doesnt exist. We dont believe in anything of a higher power. so it is a position, not a religion
Wikipedia ownz you
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
Yeah, its clearly not a religion in the same vein that Catholicism, Islam, various martial arts etc are religions. The only thing all Atheists have in common is a rejection of the supernatural.
So you've read the bible, correct? The thing is this, we has humans. Use religion as a guide, a guide to give us having some form of importance. Since you've already read the bible you should already know that it's full of ludicrous tails meant to be told to children.
One bright side to it, are the morals behind the storys. It does take time to understand exactly what they mean but they're in there. Along with laughable text. Wouldn't you agree?
But back to what I was saying. We need something to keep us on check, something that'll motivate us. Religion, is just a tool to keep us all under some form of control. If we didn't have it, our world would not be the same. It could be a better or worse way or living, we don't know, but we do know that every culture has one form of it. So that should be enough of proof of its importance.
Im an agnostic.
Once I see some proof of a higher being, then I will change my way of thinking. But we all know we have a better chance at seeing a flying pig before we see God or Jesus Christ. I don't try to convert people into thinking this way, but it's better to have two different point of views in the subject. Knowledge is key.
This statement has lack of knowledge written all over it.
Let me explain.
You're saying atheism falls in the same category as; christianity, the islamic religion, catholicism, ect ect.? You're basically saying that vegetarians, could in fact be considered a religion. I mean, they all believe in eating meat is wrong, right? So that automatically means they are a religion?
I think you need to stop using google and start using your own hard earned knowlegde.
Remember those ludicrous tails I was talking about? Your post is the perfect example of what I was referring to.
This is where that thing called "faith" comes into play. What may be ludicrous to you, may be historical to others. Hell, there's tons of physical evidence concerning the Jews deliverance from Egypt and the crossing of the Red Sea that was split by Moses through the power of God.
As for another tale, what about the Prophecy of Babylon? Thousands (or hundreds, can't remember) of years before the destruction of the great city, Isaiah prophesied not only the date of it's fall, but the method by which they would be invaded and even the name of the general that would lead the charge, Cyrus. Cyrus wasn't even Jewish or Christian. Also, it was told that that city would not just be destroyed, but annihilated and would never be built upon again. To this day, the city and it's surrounding area lie in ruins, just 50 miles South of Bagdad.
There's a lot of stuff that we can find debatable in the Bible, but a lot of it has come to physical truth. It makes you wonder sometimes.
Same boat here.
The funny thing about faith, is even Science is based on faith.... A lot of people dont realize this......
The universe is infinite, right?? Because Science says so. but even they have to have faith that it is correct...
Most people believe in God because a preacher told them too and its the best thing around....
My biggest issue with most christians who try to get me to convert is the saying, "Why not be safe. If it doesnt matter and there may not be a God, why not just play it safe, just in case." Why do I want to give something else the credit for the **** I do?? If I won the lottery I sure as hell am not going to give the credit to someone else....
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
Unlike religion. Scientists can calculate distance with light. Im sure they used the word "infinite" because to this day they haven't found a "dead end" in the universe. I agree with your comment about Science also has to have faith, we all knew this already. Again, science has proven alot of things, unlike religion... I'd rather "read" and try to understand things that have been proven and "seen."
There actually isn't any evidence for any of this. In fact, Moses' only mention is in in the bible. Other references come centuries afterwards and are based on the Jewish texts.
"Many archaeologists, including Israel Finkelstein and William G. Dever, regard the Exodus as non-historical, at best containing a small germ of truth."
If there were tons of archaelogical evidence I don't think this would be the case.
Last edited by The12lber; 04-02-2008 at 12:08 PM.
Not sure how old your sources are, but here are some pics of archaelogical finds from within the Red Sea. A turned over Chariot and some wheels. More include human bones and other pieces of clothing, armor, ect...
There was actually a special on this on the Discovery or History Channel a while back.
Aside from this not even remotely proving the exodus (or even being evidence of it at all) or anything related to it like Jews in Egypt or Moses and being a really limited find, I guess I'm supposed to infer from single chariot being at the bottom of the see that the sea came back and swallowed it up while it was being ridden on the previously water covered ocean floor?
Explanation : It came off a boat. As a side note, that chariot doesn't look like those of the Egyptians at the time. I could be wrong but I am fairly confident about this.
Without carbon dating, which I'm not sure if it's been done or not, it's hard to tell. However, individual discoveries lead to more and should not be discredited.
I'm not going to sit here and bust your chops into believing that God came down and wiped out a bunch of rampaging Egyptians in the middle of a sea. Especially considering how I'm on the fence about it myself. I'm just throwing out things to counter your original statement that there was no archaelogical evidence, which at first glance you were quick to discredit anyway.
Your reply is as much of a hypothesis as those that claim it to be from the Exodus.
Another Explanation for the chariot wheel:
Red Sea= Dump. Not hard to believe that egyptians threw their dead and trash into the red sea which would be far enough to prevent disease but close enough that it would make it worth the trip...
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
Not really, since stranger things have happened than *gasp* stuff getting deposited on the ocean floor because it came off a boat. In fact I'm pretty sure **** like that is pretty common. Go snorkeling at a marina and see if there's any evidence of man's at the bottom.
As far as stuff like the Red Sea opening up and allowing for land travel on the (previous) sea floor? I don't think a whole lot of well documented **** like that has gone down.
Random chariot wheels on the sea floor is simply != archaelogical evidence of exodus. If we found a submerged Landrover in the Mariana Trench would we assume it was evidence of a deep sea camping trip?
There's no Egyptian record of an entire civilization of Jews in slavery either.
Last edited by The12lber; 04-02-2008 at 04:08 PM.
Egyptians also don't keep record of anything negative regarding their history.
They don't keep records of military reversals. All we've established is there's no evidence of it happening or the events related to it. The "absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence" argument isn't a very strong one.
Well, that was fun times stirring the water. I'll check back in another 15 pages or so maybe, depending if the thread is still here or not. Later.
This looks interesting:
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php
I'm pretty sure that's the movie that said the cause of Nazism/Eugenics/The Holocaust was solely evolution.
It did say that. But the trailers and the interview RC Sproul had with Bein Stein were actually pretty interesting. After reading your posts in this thread, I can tell you and I think alot alike when it comes to this subject. And im sure you too find what they had to say interesting.
The points "Expelled: No intelligence allowed" are pretty deep. I know im going to see the movie just to see what all the hype is about. One thing I didn't really find cute, was the fact that Bein Stein kept saying that all creation started from a puddle of mud, and the cause of life was started cause of a lighting bolt hitting this puddle. I found it childish from his part.
And speaking of Expelled NIA. I think that could start a very nice arguement and would be a wonderful addition to this thread. Of course, I doubt alot of people know what im talking about lol. Here is what yall need to know to if you want to continue talking about this topic. I'd personally like to see people's point of view on this...
Intelligent design, that's what it's about.
He really doesn't have any excuse to be feigning that kind of ignorance either considering he's a smart enough guy. At least smart enough to beat idiots of that level and prevent them from winning his money.
I don't see why it had to be the Christain God. Personally I have to give credit to the supporters of ID because they're taking a big resk by talking about it. Not a topic your normal person would challenge. I could jump in the subject, but like you said. I doubt alot of members even know what ID is.Intelligent Design (or ID) is the controversial assertion that certain features of the universe and of living things exhibit the characteristics of a product resulting from an intelligent cause or agent, not an undirected process such as natural selection. Though publicly most ID advocates state that their focus is on detecting evidence of design in nature, without regard to who or what the designer might be, in statements to their constituents and supporters nearly all state explicitly that they believe the designer to be the Christian God.
Preachers tell you alot of things. One being that you're a devil if you don't believe in the ways of Christ. Yet, you're still welcomed to their church, as long as you donate 10% of what you make. The word God, is a very strong word. Why do you think some cluts back then got so powerful? Ignorance + Religion = Devastation.
But back to ID and the idea of the creator being a Christain God.
Instead of coming up with the conclusion of the designer, why couldn't they come up with a new name while they were at it? With that statement im sure alot of other religious people with a different religion point of view got offended. I see harsh times in out future for sure. Religion is becoming a topic that is so serious, that even talking about it could leave you jobless and leave you with a bad reputation.
Faith to me is this...
Something you already know will happen and or wish wouldn't happen. For example.
I have faith that I'll get my pay check every Friday. I have faith that my girl friend won't cheat on me. I have faith that I know I won't die tomorrow. Faith to me, is something I know will or will not happen. Understand where im coming from with all this? Faith in something you have never seen, seems childish to me. Because it's usually children who walk around proudly about their faith. Faith that there is a tooth fairy, faith that Santa will bring them presents on Christmas, faith that the Easter bunny will place eggs on the ground even though we all know grown ups put them there... That's faith in my opinion.
And as for the physical evidence on the spliting of the Red Sea. I would love to see the evidence first hand. Like, is there microscopic evidence of magic particles around the shore or on the sea floor? Seriously, I would believe it if they crossed a small creek, but a sea? No way. LOL it's just not possible. But again, like you said previously. It all has to do with faith, and people with the wrong faith, will believe it.
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