Or why convertible soft tops bulge up at speed.Originally Posted by Ruiner
Or why convertible soft tops bulge up at speed.
Well, graduating with honors helped.qft, and this is coming from a uga grad
Either cum laude or magna cum laude (trying to remember my GPA). Bah.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
Yup yup, molecules on both the top and bottom take the same amount of time to travel the distance of the wing, even though the distance on top is greater. Therefore the ones on top have to be spaced farther apart, and move faster, thus creating lower pressure on the top of the wing. I'm sure you know this, but I'm just adding a little extra info for the slower half of IA.
Perfect example.
This is incorrect, but it is a common misconception. A planes wings can have a short and long side but wings may also be symmetrical. The trailing edge of the wing is the main requirement for flight.
Learned this in Aerospace Engineering a GaTech, for those that want to question.
IA Rules doesn't allow these images in sigs
- IA Mgmt
I've heard some pilots at the airport debating this topic, I was surprised, how could anyone, especially a fellow aviator, think that the plane won't take off?!
Well the angle of attack is the main thing required to produce lift - without angle of attack there isn't any lift. The angle of attack is defined as the angle between the chord line of the wing and the relative wind. That's what accelerates the air over the top of the wing as a result of circulation, the curve of the wing is mainly to delay flow separation (stall) at high angles of attack. So an asymetrically curved wing has a higher maximum coefficient of lift compared with a symetrical wing.
That's called the equal transit time theory and it's not correct at all - it's unfortunate that such misinformation is presented in so many textbooks and aviation books. The molecules on the top of the wing reach the trailing edge of the wing before the molecules on the bottom, they never meet up again - without this there would be no force exerted on the air by the wing.
Good page for anyone interested in the mechanics of flight - http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/aoa.html
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/airfoils.html
How a wing produces lift is quite a bit more involved than just the simple Bournelli explanation - that's part of it, but there's also Newton's action/reaction and Kutta Zukhovsky's circulation. Off-topic for this debate, but it's interesting.
Last edited by 03CobraAV8R; 06-03-2009 at 10:52 PM.
It's about that time again...
LOL! I almost bumped this last week after a couple of us were talking about it.
That's about what you said last time I bumped it. =-p
i'm not going to lie i must be dumb because i do not know the answer
has the answer been revealed yet? im not reading 43 pages...
43 pages later...
Did you notice the date? The answer will always be YES, the plane WILL take off. Unfortunately people continue to vote "no" even though it has been proven to be "yes". Come on, use your brain peoples lol!43 pages later...
Shit won't take off.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
it will take off.
the plane is not powered at the wheels, so the threadmill will not have any effect whatsoever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KsdMuhYJPw
hmm... although the answer is yes, the question didnt clarify if the thread-mill was a heavy earth magnet that generated a magnetic field that prevented the plane from taking off.
CHASE ->>> WHAT MATTERS
Plane = not take off!
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
Lollers.... instigator.....
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
I refuse to read this thread but here is my theory
First off, fuck stupid people thinking it is powered by the wheels. The question states that if it is on a treadmill that can match the speed of the wheels will it TAKE OFF, not move. The answer is no. The cause for lift is the air across the wings (pressure vs velocity) we all agree on this. In this scenario the only thing generating airflow is the engine. The engine will not generate enough air flow on a plane standing still to take off.
Think of it like this. If you could force a plane to be stuck horizontally in one spot and it could only move vertically, could the air flow from the engines push enough air against the entire wing to generate lift (and cause the plane to rise). No
Who the fuck cares if it is powered by the wheels, the bottom line is if its on a treadmill the plane is stuck horizontally, there in lies the issue of lacking lift. Period.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
At a certain point the wheels on the plane will overcome friction and the only thing left in the equation would be thrust. Therefore the thrust from the engine would push the plane forward across the treadmill, and in fact not be stationary.
08 NOGARO RED 350z | Forged Performance CNC | PIONEER | S2K ANT | 20% Tint | B&G Springs
I understand the logic of both sides but I think how the question is worded lies the problem, and in the situation stated by the question it would not. But no I understand both aspects and I've seen the tests and everything to prove it will but I assure you, I understand lol.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
haha definitely. The entire puzzle/question is worded horribly. It makes it seem like the plane can not move forward, and has to be stationary, which simply isn't the case.
08 NOGARO RED 350z | Forged Performance CNC | PIONEER | S2K ANT | 20% Tint | B&G Springs
Agreed.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
No, actually neither of you "get" it yet. There is no physical way that they plane could stay stationary. The plane will move forward and therefore it will always take off regardless of wording. For simplification, can a plane take off if it has NO wheels? (PS...might want to go back a couple of pages and just look at the pictures for that one)
Let's look at the original question:
Where did y'all get that the plane is stationary out of that? Even better, explain how it could physical stay in the same spot given the specifics outlined in the question?Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?
You're an idiot. Its a hypothetical question in an environment that doesn't necessarily exist. And this is not the only way the question has been worded, this is a question that people asked and debated over for a long time. Please don't tell me what I do and do not "get". Ass.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
Lol...it has even been tested in real life. You managed not to answer any of my questions. The "theory" is quite simple. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the plane to remain stationary and if you still think it is, you are the one who has something to learn here. It has been debated and there is zero evidence that I am wrong here. They even proved it on mythbusters on TV. Again, you just don't "get" it ;-)
This thread is still alive? I refuse to believe that people can be stupid enough to argue this lol...
Please, let me say this again, I "get" it just fine. I understand that the engine pushes the plane the wheels are there to keep it off the ground. The wheels are pushed from the force of the engine pulling air and moving the plane itself. I understand it completely. Please, again, do not assume you know what I do and don't get.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
I am not assuming anything, but if it makes things easier for you, I will just use your exact words to make my point.
Let's stop there for a minute and review. The question does state that it is on a treadmill and the treadmill can match the speed of the wheels. So you are correct so far.
Ooops, and you were doing so well. Wrong answer. The correct answer is yes, the plane will take off. I didn't have to assume anything, you are WRONG. The question didn't say anything about the plane staying still. In fact, it is quite impossible for the plane to do so since the wheels are free wheeling which of course was mentioned in the original question.
So you do understand how a plane works, but you are still stuck on the plane standing still WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE and was never mentioned in the original question.
Where in the world is your odd tangent going? Where did you get the idea that the plane was stationary? If it wasn't from the original question, where do you get these silly ideas?
Which of course is still impossible and never asked in the question.
Thanks for playing and please come again =-)
Well, let me explain what I was trying to explain in my post, since I thought this was obvious. I read multiple "theories" that because the engine was pushing air, or propeller, that enough air in the end would move across the wings and fast enough velocities to cause lift. This is in fact not true. What this test proves is that the engine in fact moves horizontally in the air and the wheels serve no purpose other than removing some resistance.
Like I said, I understand it just fine.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
OMG back from the dead, lol.
The answer is and always has been YES.
/thread
IA Rules doesn't allow these images in sigs
- IA Mgmt
Well, since all of that thought process was made up in your head and not stated in the thread, it was not obvious. Your very first words were that you had not read the thread, so you didn't get those "multiple theories" from this thread and it certainly didn't come from the question, so I apologize for taking what you said at face value and not making up conversations in my head to rationally explain it. The question is designed to force people to realize that not everything is propelled by wheels or by what is attached to the surface they are resting on, which is exactly why 17 people have voted no since yesterday even though there is clearly only one answer and has been proven so many times in this thread I can't count.
The thread was 43 pages. I did not read 43 pages. Therefore, I did not read the thread.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
wow joe.. someone piss in your coffee? get off his nuts
08 NOGARO RED 350z | Forged Performance CNC | PIONEER | S2K ANT | 20% Tint | B&G Springs
This is a VERY basic question and the plane will take off every time. The treadmill will simply increase the speed of the wheels, which has zero effect on forward velocity. If the wheels truly are frictionless, the plane will take off in the same space that it would on a concrete runway.
agreed
'99 NB - Bolt on's and stuff.
I was on a plane yesterday.
Leisa and S. 4 Life NM?
ZOMG WTF people keep voting no?!!!! :TRIPLEFACEPALM:
I'm impressed. A lot of the time I see this problem stated incorrectly which causes a lot of useless debate (ie., belt matches speed of plane as opposed to matching the wheels). Also of note is the fact that more people are getting it right here than did over at the lotus forums.
lol ooopppsss mybad! well the "no's" are only 4 off from the "yes'" now lol
Posting Permissions
