Plane on a treadmill poll...

[ISAtlanta300]

I will play your game.

---A ---

1) turn on treadmill on 10mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?

He will go forward, but then the treadmill is not matching your speed, like the scenario posted.


--- B ---

1) turn on treadmill on 100mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?


2) lol, more like fly backwards into the wall.

What is full boost? if it is <100mph he will gradually continue backwards. if it is = 100MPH he will stay put. If it's > 100MPH he will go forward.


--- C ---

1) turn on treadmill on 100000mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?

Same as above.

[BABY J]

I'm gonna need you to put the weed down for a minute - lol.

[ISAtlanta300]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now - you have seen people pull the cloth on NORMAL plates and they don't move right? So what will happen if you put wheels on said plates - then they DEF would not move... correct??

Take those non-moving plates, push them the opposite way that the cloth is being pulled and they WILL accelerate - yes?

They actually DO move, but the way you tug the cloth creates a wave force in that their backwards motion equals the force of the cloth 'pushing' them back in their place.

If it were that easy everyone could do that trick.

[speedminded]

I'm gonna need you to put the weed down for a minute - lol.

I'm beginning to think a little bit of green might help the situation.

To a point anyways, until you just get completely baked and stupid high: your face is tingling and feels like you have a 10lb weight on your head it actually enhances your thinking...but if you're thinking all wrong in the first place then I guess enhancing the wrong thought isn't going to help one bit, lol.

[ISAtlanta300]

I'm gonna need you to put the weed down for a minute - lol.

Pass the dutch on da left hand side, brother....


LOL

[BKgen®]

shit. let's just steal a plane and try it ourselves

[speedminded]

shit. let's just steal a plane and try it ourselves

I can get you a plane, several people on here own or have access to them...it's finding a 3,000 foot long treadmill that's the problem.

[ISAtlanta300]

I spent too much time in here... LOL



Yes, it will eventually take off.



Baby J, this is the scenario to explain it:

Two guys are playing tug of war. Each one is pulling at 50lb/force. Who will win??

Answer.. Tie.

Same guys, on rollerblades. Playing tug of war. They are equally strong. Both pulling at 50lb. force. Who will win??

None of those fookas will go over the line.


Same guys, facing each other on threadmills. Equally strong. threadmills set as fast. Both pulling at 50lb. force. Who will win??

Fookas will get kicked out of the gym for horsing around.



One of the guys works out secretly. Rematch.

On solid ground: Other fool goes over the line.

On rollerblades: Other fool goes over the line.

On threadmill: At equal force and equal speed, they were tied. once the otherguy pulls an extra 50lb, the other fookah smashes his face into the treadmill.

Even if they increase the speed of the treadmill, the other guy still have to pull the exact same 50lb to keep it stationary. And once he flexes and pulls that extra 50lb it;s bye bye other guy.


The main problem is the distinction of friction, resistance, weight and speed. Different variables. Yes, the threadmil will be putting resistance to the wheels, but non on the engines, nor the wings for a matter of fact.

No matter how fast the conveyor goes, or the wheels spin, they won't match the thrust / pull / force of the engines, because not only are the wheels free spinning, the engine has no limiting factor or no resistance from anything.

The wheels willl indeed be spinning faster, but the take-off speed will be as if the treadmill was not there.

There is just no way of stopping motion by accelerating the treadmill, as long as the engines are providing trust. The engines will always win, because they have no factors acting upon them.


Cookie?

[BABY J]

Fuck a cookie.


NOOKIE!!!


Speaking of nookie... where is Jocelyn at? LOL




NE1 else doesn't get it?

[BKgen®]

I can get you a plane

ditto.. i was just saying

it's finding a 3,000 foot long treadmill that's the problem.

hahaha yeah good point

[©hris]

call up the Myth Busters

[speedminded]

No matter how fast the conveyor goes, or the wheels spin, they won't match the thrust / pull / force of the engines, because not only are the wheels free spinning, the engine has no limiting factor or no resistance from anything.

The wheels willl indeed be spinning faster, but the take-off speed will be as if the treadmill was not there.

There is just no way of stopping motion by accelerating the treadmill, as long as the engines are providing trust. The engines will always win, because they have no factors acting upon them.


Cookie?

Yes, you get a cookie! Two double chocolate chip peanut butter cookies with whipped caked icing in-between. Instant diabetic!

[BKgen®]

call up the Myth Busters

[speedminded]

i've been trying to get jaime and adam to do it...the cost of a runway sized treadmill or even a scaled model is the limiting factor. $$$

[ISAtlanta300]

Yes, you get a cookie! Two double chocolate chip peanut butter cookies with whipped caked icing in-between. Instant diabetic!

Hmmmm i'd rather have a coochie....


Where's my Girlfriend?? ooh honeeeyyyy !!!

[BKgen®]

i've been trying to get jaime and adam to do it...the cost of a runway sized treadmill or even a scaled model is the limiting factor. $$$

but they could probably tell just by using a smaller scale version (kinda like the truck bed gas mileage experiment -- with the truck model in the water tunnel) --if you know which one i'm talking about lol

[BABY J]

I have another poll.

Submarine in a parking lot. Will VTEC engage if it was on a Thursday and the crew had cereal for breakfast??

Oh yeah - the submarine is blue and uses Mobil 1 oil.

[speedminded]

ditto.. i was just saying



hahaha yeah good point

The question of the day is, Why would we need a 3,000 foot long runway if the plane isn't going to go anywhere?!!!

[speedminded]

but they could probably tell just by using a smaller scale version (kinda like the truck bed gas mileage experiment -- with the truck model in the water tunnel) --if you know which one i'm talking about lol

That's exactly what the video's Ruiner posted show...3 of the 4 easily proved it. The one with the flatbed truck was questionable, the idea was there but not as well done as the others.

[Echonova]

I have another poll.

Submarine in a parking lot. Will VTEC engage if it was on a Thursday and the crew had cereal for breakfast??

Oh yeah - the submarine is blue and uses Mobil 1 oil.

Of course it will, unless the cow walked across the baseball field under a full moon. In which case the trezel rod will contact the conuter valve and cause a left-handed smoke shift pattern.

[BABY J]

Oh yeah - another poll too.

So - let's say you are banging an ghonorrea infected prostitute raw in the back of her VW bug downtown Denver. Will you get it too? B/c if so I need to go see a doctor.

Oh yeah - it was a Wednesday night.

[BABY J]

Of course it will, unless the cow walked across the baseball field under a full moon. In which case the trezel rod will contact the conuter valve and cause a left-handed smoke shift pattern.

Dairy cow or meat cow? Would it happen to be in a leap year?

[Doppelgänger]

the plane still cant take off.........

why?

Because your stupid asses are out on the runway arguing about it and causing a security breach of listed passengers that are not on the place. Therefor the plane sits still.

[BABY J]

Just answer the poll. I'm not looking for some explanation as I already know the damn answer. Either you think that the plane will take off or it won't. It's very simple. I would like to keep a record of who says it will and who says it won't. When the question is finally proven, we can all laugh at the people who were wrong. I made this thread public so that all of IA.com can know where you stand. Don't be a pussy, answer up. Stand by your convictions...

Why am I doing this? I'm bored.

Here is the question:

Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?

Once again, I don't want an explanation. I already know the answer.

No. B/c the treadmill will keep the plane from moving. Duh.

[BKgen®]

Dairy cow or meat cow? Would it happen to be in a leap year?

do the chickens have large talons?

[Echonova]

That's exactly what the video's Ruiner posted show...3 of the 4 easily proved it. The one with the flatbed truck was questionable, the idea was there but not as well done as the others.

Does anyone read my posts? I stated earlier that the flatbed was stupid. To the plane it doesn't matter the truck is moving. The "ground" is still stationary relative to the plane.

[Echonova]

Is the maximum of the minimum, the minimum of the maximum?

[BKgen®]

Does anyone read my posts? I stated earlier that the flatbed was stupid. To the plane it doesn't matter the truck is moving. The "ground" is still stationary relative to the plane.

my comment had nothing to do with comparing the truck experiment to the plane experiment. i was just saying that they could do a smaller scale experiment like the one with the truck instead of using a real plane.

[coolcat]

The plane uses THRUST to accelerate it, not wheel spin, it would take off if the conveyer belt was going ANY amount of speed (considering there is no friction in this problem)

[BKgen®]

The plane uses THRUST to accelerate it, not wheel spin, it would take off if the conveyer belt was going ANY amount of speed (considering there is no friction in this problem)

we've already answered this question... so stop posting your solutions. the answer is:

the plane will not take off unless Jack Bauer allows it to.

[man]

Holy shit, why is this still going? People really don't get this? Just answer yes and move on. Also, you should plan to take a physics course sometime in your lives. You'll look back at this thread and realize the error of your ways.

[Fast Shadow]

The plane will take off as long as the treadmill as as long as a traditional runway and as long as the plane's wheels don't fall off, since they'll be spinning twice as fast as normal.

If you want proof of this concept go to an airport with one of those flat, conveyor belt walkways in the terminal, like Charlotte. Stand on solid ground next to the walkway and bring a rolling suitcase. Put the suitcase on the rolling walkway in the opposite direction that you're walking, and pull the suitcase along with you. The suitcase will roll right along with you as you walk, but the wheels will be spinning twice as fast. It's the exact same principle - the wheels are not driving the plane, the engines are. The wheels are not driving your suitcase, your body is.

[Deke]

Yeah, ok I originally voted no but then I read the question closer. If the treadmill matched the speed of the plane's wheels, then no it would not take off. However, since the question states that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane and the wheels are free rolling, yes, it would definitely take off.

Oh, and wow this thread is old.

[Fast Shadow]

Opposite direction will prevent it from moving. Same direction will increase it's speed.

It scares the piss out of me that someone who doesn't understand the most basic princples of physics is allowed to own a 600rwhp car.

[speedminded]

The plane will take off as long as the treadmill as as long as a traditional runway and as long as the plane's wheels don't fall off, since they'll be spinning twice as fast as normal.

If you want proof of this concept go to an airport with one of those flat, conveyor belt walkways in the terminal, like Charlotte. Stand on solid ground next to the walkway and bring a rolling suitcase. Put the suitcase on the rolling walkway in the opposite direction that you're walking, and pull the suitcase along with you. The suitcase will roll right along with you as you walk, but the wheels will be spinning twice as fast. It's the exact same principle - the wheels are not driving the plane, the engines are. The wheels are not driving your suitcase, your body is.

Very good Exactly what i quoted before...

This is somewhat of a "trick" question. Not because it is phrased in a
deliberately tricky way, but because people tend to have trouble
thinking about the operation of other vehicles apart from cars which
they know so well.

The heart of the confusion is simply these two important facts:
* cars propel themselves by pushing against the ground via friction
* airplanes propel themselves by pushing against the air
If you can let go of how cars operate and think about what an airplane
does, you'll be able to see the problem clearly.

One good way of tackling this problem is to find a good analogy. But
the analogy must be a valid one else you'll just get more confused.
For example, someone posted the analogy of running on a treadmill. Why
is that a bad analogy? Because one runs by pushing against the ground
via friction between their shoe and the ground. This is how a car
propels itself! It is not how an airplane propels itself, by pushing
against the air. Bad analogy.

Let's use this analogy. Instead of looking at the airplane, let's back
up and go into the airport. Suppose you're walking down to your gate
and pulling your carry-on bag behind you. It's a nice new bag with low
friction wheels. No problem! Up ahead you see one of those moving
walkways. You don't see anyone coming, so you decide to do a little
experiment. You go over to the walkway that is moving TOWARDS you and
place your bag on it. Meanwhile, you step off to the side of the
walkway, and still holding on to the handle of your bag, you continue
to walk along. In fact, you intentionally walk along at the same speed
that the moving walkway is going, just in the opposite direction.
Question: does the bag move or does it remain stationary as you keep
walking? Obviously it moves with you. So why does your bag move
forward when you are walking at the same speed of the conveyor going
in the opposite direction?

The answer to that question is also the answer to the
airplane-conveyor question. To complete the analogy, the pull of your
arm is analogous to the force of the airplane engines. The bag's
wheels are analogous to the airplane tires. Do the nice low-friction
wheels on your bag on the conveyor pull against you anymore than they
do when you're just pulling your bag along normally? No, they don't.
They are free-wheeling, after all. Meanwhile, you're pulling the bag
with the same force in both cases. So in both cases, the bag keeps
moving forward. Likewise with the airplane, the pull of the engines
doesn't change nor does the force on the airplane imparted by the
tires change no matter what the ground is doing underneath the tires.
You have the same force imbalance in either case, and since Force =
mass x accceleration, you have the same acceleration. Remember, we are
talking airplane engines which push against the AIR, not the ground.
The acceleration is with respect to the AIR, thus the airplane
develops a speed relative to the air and can eventually take off...

John Strong
Ph.D., biochemical engineering
M.S., chemical engineering
B.S., mechanical engineering

[Fast Shadow]

For the record I had a hard time figuring this out at first, too. I had trouble with the concept of the wheels not driving the plane until I did the suitcase/airport thing. And yes, I actually did it. I was in Charlotte a few weeks ago for something else and saw one of those walkways in the airport, LOL.

The one thing I DIDN'T do, even when I was confused by the concept, was argue and get in fights with people who know a thing or two about physics. echo419 is a fucking retard who should be banned for a lot of reasons, profound stupidity being one of them. His insulting of a guy who served for 8 years in the Air Force being another reason why.

[{X}Echo419]

For the record I had a hard time figuring this out at first, too. I had trouble with the concept of the wheels not driving the plane until I did the suitcase/airport thing. And yes, I actually did it. I was in Charlotte a few weeks ago for something else and saw one of those walkways in the airport, LOL.

The one thing I DIDN'T do, even when I was confused by the concept, was argue and get in fights with people who know a thing or two about physics. echo419 is a fucking retard who should be banned for a lot of reasons, profound stupidity being one of them. His insulting of a guy who served for 8 years in the Air Force being another reason why.

a. I was NOT in the Airforce
b. gawd damn you can't get over shit can you? jesus get a puppy or something
c. I'd crush you son ask anybody on here that's met me.
d. it's the INTERNET let it go
e. what am I doing here there probally 1 of 1,000,0000,000,000 versions of CSI on

[BuBBa DRiFT]

now that you guys explain it, i was overthinking, so basically, even if its on a treadmill, the plane requires the same amount of work to take off, regardless of the treadmill speed?

[ISAtlanta300]

now that you guys explain it, i was overthinking, so basically, even if its on a treadmill, the plane requires the same amount of work to take off, regardless of the treadmill speed?

Yes. No matter what the treadmill is doing down there, there is no stress on the engine.

To understand that, in a black hole situation, yes the starship won't move, since the gravitational pull is on the entire aircraft, engine and all. The starship won't escape the black hole, but also won't fall in (as long as he keeps his thrusters on, and has fuel)

In this example the resistance is on the wheels alone (from the spinning treadmill), not on the engines. It will take off like nothing happened. Only the wheels will be spinning faster than normal.

[Ruiner]

Thank goodness some of ya'll are coming around. I'm proud that you see the light (the correct one). Yes, the plane will take off and some of you have explained it rather well.

The "rolling a suitcase with wheels in the airport walkway" was rather brilliant.