no torque this and no torque that, wow, honda's dont have torque big deal, i have had three honda's and have raced and beet cars with twice as much torque as me so what. i think i have seen just as many riced out v6 mustangs as i have civics. yes there is a lot of slow ass riced out honda's, but at the same time there are some very respectable well put together honda's that are fast/quick, and they didnt spend that much money making them fast. so i have honda love