In this thread, I deomstrate the future of America

[Sinfix_15]

Sometimes i wonder if freedom of speech is such a great thing after all. Maybe we should reserve this right for tax payers only, that might solve the problem.
In a day and age where sending an angry text or email to an exgirlfriend can get you arrested, how is it that the law doesnt prevent people from being told that theyre going to burn in hell? If i sent the text "You're going to burn for what you did", i could be arrested. If i were completely ignorant to christian lore and saw a protester holding a sign telling me that i was going to burn in hell, could that not be perceived as a threat? Why does the law assume that people are in understanding of christian meaning. Is being a christian a free pass to talk like a crazed lunatic? On the news yesterday i listened to a preacher giving his political advice to the presidential candidates. His advice was to lock "Lesbians and queers" in cages together and eventually they would die off because they wouldnt be able to reproduce.

My only beef is this........... Christians.... you have the right to say whatever you wish within the confines of the law. I want you to have this right, even if you use it to tell me i am going to burn in hell. However...... if you're going to abuse your freedoms, at least help pay for them. Give me one reason that any church should be tax exempt in a country that is trillions of dollars in debt. Based on a brief attempt at finding the answer, i estimate there is about 400,000 churches in the united states. For comparison, there's about 4000 Walmarts.

[Elbow]

So I may be missing the point here but it seems like you are mad tha people can say burn in hell or something related to hell because it relates to religion and not everyone is religious? LMFAO What is wrong with you? Either you just get bored and make dumb threads to have entertainment or you really are an idiot. It would be hard to find anyone that does not know the idea of heaven and hell. All I really see in here though is a bashing of Christianity and a lack of English.

[Browning151]

All I really see in here though is a bashing of Christianity

Pretty much. I guess OP doesn't realize that the concept of "hell" exists in other religions as well.

[Sinfix_15]

So I may be missing the point here but it seems like you are mad tha people can say burn in hell or something related to hell because it relates to religion and not everyone is religious? LMFAO What is wrong with you? Either you just get bored and make dumb threads to have entertainment or you really are an idiot. It would be hard to find anyone that does not know the idea of heaven and hell. All I really see in here though is a bashing of Christianity and a lack of English.

So as an american citizen i am required to have an understanding of a 1000 year old science fiction book? Why is it so hard to believe that some people absolutely do NOT believe in your religion. Being told i'm going to hell draws about the same emotional reaction as being told i'm going to be wisped away by magical unicorns.

Pretty much. I guess OP doesn't realize that the concept of "hell" exists in other religions as well.

Meaning nothing to the nonreligious. Is it a requirement to be a part of a religious group?

[Elbow]

So as an american citizen i am required to have an understanding of a 1000 year old science fiction book? Meaning nothing to the nonreligious. Is it a requirement to be a part of a religious group?

Stop acting like such an idiot. You do not need to understand the bible to know hell is a term for a bad place. You never fail at making me worry about the future of man kind. Lol

[Sinfix_15]

Stop acting like such an idiot. You do not need to understand the bible to know hell is a term for a bad place. You never fail at making me worry about the future of man kind. Lol

yet people who believe in angels, demons and lakes of fire do not make you worry about the future of man kind???? Understanding of the bible is about as useful as understanding The Lord of the Rings or what elements are needed to summon Captain Planet.

[Browning151]

Meaning nothing to the nonreligious. Is it a requirement to be a part of a religious group?

You attacked Christianity, you dolt. Your argument has nothing to actually do with hell, the concept thereof or freedom of speech, you're just pointlessly ranting on about Christianity.

[bu villain]

The issue here has nothing to do with Christianity. If you text your girlfriend and tell her you are going to burn her, that is a very specific threat from one individual to another. You may get a visit from the cops but I don't believe they can arrest you for that. It's probably good grounds for a restraining order though. Holding a sign saying that 'gays will burn in hell' for example is a very general threat which is not against any particular individual and it doesn't state the sign holder will do the burning. It is clearly different than 'I will burn Ellen DeGeneres".

Now if particular speech can be shown to incite violence then there may be a criminal action there, but as shown by many white supremacists, that is pretty hard to prove.

[chaseamundo]

Holy Shit

[David88vert]

You need to break down your arguments in to logical separations to be able to have them taken seriously.

1) Freedom of speech in relationship to taxation.
2) The concept of hell in relationship to multiple religions and the non-religious.

Your muddling of these questions and concepts show your lack of logic, reason, and general common sense. You should pick a subject, and stick to it, without falling into tangents.

In the first question, freedom of speech has never been tied to taxation, and the 1st Amendment addresses it as a personal right of all individuals. Political, business, and religious affliations have no bearance on this fundamental right of all individuals.
Taxation is very different between businesses and individuals, and tax-exempt organizations do not have to be religious in nature to obtain tax exempt status.

[nelson9995]

I'm guessing sinfix gets high every night (which I have nothing against) and thinks of these things that noone else thinks of and posts it on IA. lol

[-EnVus-]

Its to easy to photo shop or alter those signs and also churches are tax exempt cause they take in no profits. Churches give back to the community in many ways food drives, Help homeless, Shelter the needy, Clothes drives etc...I do think they allow to many people to operate or obtain the permit to have a church.
In Winder alone there is a remodeled building or store every 50 yards that has became a church in the past years. Not trying to sound racist in any way but they are almost all black owned and the owners drive new fancy cars...

[C230K]

Im convinced now that your just a cold hearted guy, first the funeral thread and now this, really? Its ok I will pray for you tonight

[Sinfix_15]

I'm guessing sinfix gets high every night (which I have nothing against) and thinks of these things that noone else thinks of and posts it on IA. lol

you might be on to something here.

Im convinced now that your just a cold hearted guy, first the funeral thread and now this, really? Its ok I will pray for you tonight

I'm a teddy bear.

You need to break down your arguments in to logical separations to be able to have them taken seriously.

1) Freedom of speech in relationship to taxation.
2) The concept of hell in relationship to multiple religions and the non-religious.

Your muddling of these questions and concepts show your lack of logic, reason, and general common sense. You should pick a subject, and stick to it, without falling into tangents.

In the first question, freedom of speech has never been tied to taxation, and the 1st Amendment addresses it as a personal right of all individuals. Political, business, and religious affliations have no bearance on this fundamental right of all individuals.
Taxation is very different between businesses and individuals, and tax-exempt organizations do not have to be religious in nature to obtain tax exempt status.

No need to separate religions to me, i view them all the same.

Freedom of speech IS tied to taxation as there are guidelines for keeping your tax exempt status. Based on the law, several churches violate the terms of their tax exempt status by exercising their "free speech". I mentioned one example in my "mindless" rant. I always bury facts in my posts.

[David88vert]

No need to separate religions to me, i view them all the same.

Freedom of speech IS tied to taxation as there are guidelines for keeping your tax exempt status. Based on the law, several churches violate the terms of their tax exempt status by exercising their "free speech". I mentioned one example in my "mindless" rant. I always bury facts in my posts.

Clearly, you do not view all religions as the same, as you specifically target only one - Christianity. You have not started any threads complaining about any other religions.

The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech. Please show me where it refers to taxation - there is none.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Here's a good article for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom..._United_States
Basically, you will see that religion and taxation are not affiliated with freedom of speech. Your concept that religion and taxation should be used to control the ability of individuals to practice their First Amendment right of freedom of speech is not only unconstitutional, it is against the very grain of what this country was founded upon, and if you feel that you need these constraints to be happy, I suggest that you move to a country that has these constraints - try China, Russia, Burma, etc.

Tax Exempt status comes form the IRS guidelines - not from the Constitution, which is the guideline of the law. The IRS is not tasked with creating the law, and cannot have any say concerning individual rights, that is the job of Congress. Your "facts" are incorrect, and your very concept of how the system works shows that you did not grasp the basics in civics class.

Now, personally, I have no problem with removing tax exempt status from EVERYONE and ALL organizations. All individuals and organizations use the common services provided by revenue gathered through taxation, so all should pay into the same system. We are all protected by our Armed Forces, we all use the fire and police departments, etc. That is very different than tying freedom of speech to taxpayer status.

[Jdm94Coupe]

Now, personally, I have no problem with removing tax exempt status from EVERYONE and ALL organizations. All individuals and organizations use the common services provided by revenue gathered through taxation, so all should pay into the same system. We are all protected by our Armed Forces, we all use the fire and police departments, etc. That is very different than tying freedom of speech to taxpayer status.

Well said, I agree.

[Sinfix_15]

Clearly, you do not view all religions as the same, as you specifically target only one - Christianity. You have not started any threads complaining about any other religions.

The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech. Please show me where it refers to taxation - there is none.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Here's a good article for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom..._United_States
Basically, you will see that religion and taxation are not affiliated with freedom of speech. Your concept that religion and taxation should be used to control the ability of individuals to practice their First Amendment right of freedom of speech is not only unconstitutional, it is against the very grain of what this country was founded upon, and if you feel that you need these constraints to be happy, I suggest that you move to a country that has these constraints - try China, Russia, Burma, etc.

Tax Exempt status comes form the IRS guidelines - not from the Constitution, which is the guideline of the law. The IRS is not tasked with creating the law, and cannot have any say concerning individual rights, that is the job of Congress. Your "facts" are incorrect, and your very concept of how the system works shows that you did not grasp the basics in civics class.

Now, personally, I have no problem with removing tax exempt status from EVERYONE and ALL organizations. All individuals and organizations use the common services provided by revenue gathered through taxation, so all should pay into the same system. We are all protected by our Armed Forces, we all use the fire and police departments, etc. That is very different than tying freedom of speech to taxpayer status.

I do view all religions the same, but what i talk about is dictated by my audience. For all you know, i have another thread posted on importIraqiKurdistan.com about the Koran too.


To retain tax exempt status, churches are required NOT to publicly endorse any candidate for any public office. This includes the president, obviously. Churches are not suppose to use their public exposure to comment on any government office in any way good or bad.

Example - " LiSssSsSSSssSsSSsSSSTeNN here Brothas and Sistas.................... i say i say i say i say i say listen here AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when i vote, i wont be votin for a mormon or a baby killa AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

This would be a violation of the tax exempt agreement. In order to retain tax exempt status, churches are not allowed to comment on any candidate for any government office. Something we know they ALL do...................... Churches should be held accountable for their actions and stupidity.

[David88vert]

I do view all religions the same, but what i talk about is dictated by my audience. For all you know, i have another thread posted on importIraqiKurdistan.com about the Koran too.


To retain tax exempt status, churches are required NOT to publicly endorse any candidate for any public office. This includes the president, obviously. Churches are not suppose to use their public exposure to comment on any government office in any way good or bad.

Example - " LiSssSsSSSssSsSSsSSSTeNN here Brothas and Sistas.................... i say i say i say i say i say listen here AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when i vote, i wont be votin for a mormon or a baby killa AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

This would be a violation of the tax exempt agreement. In order to retain tax exempt status, churches are not allowed to comment on any candidate for any government office. Something we know they ALL do...................... Churches should be held accountable for their actions and stupidity.

You are not on another car site making the same type of statements that you do on here. Don't even try to say that you are.

Your statement that they cannot comment on any candidate is so wrong that its funny. You need to educate yourself before typing.
Read the IRS guidelines - see page 7-13 on http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

There are specific guidelines, and IF a church violates them (and yes, I am sure that quite a few have over the decades), THEN the IRS should remove their tax-exempt status, BUT ONLY if it is a statement from the Church, and not just the pastor expressing his own personal views. Again, read the guidelines.
If you have specific proof of a church violating the guidelines, then you would submit them to the IRS, so that the IRS can investigate. That is the proper course of action - not running to a local car forum and whining like a high school drama queen. No one on this forum is in the position to change the tax exempt status of any organization or individual.

So, how would you know what is being said in ALL of the churches, since you don't attend ANY of them?

[Echonova]

Religious Organizations

To determine whether an organization meets the religious purposes test of section 501(c)(3), the IRS maintains two basic guidelines.

That the particular religious beliefs of the organization are truly and sincerely held.

That the practices and rituals associated with the organization's religious belief or creed are not illegal or contrary to clearly defined public policy.

Therefore, your group (or organization) may not qualify for treatment as an exempt religious organization for tax purposes if its actions, as contrasted with its beliefs, are contrary to well established and clearly defined public policy. If there is a clear showing that the beliefs (or doctrines) are sincerely held by those professing them, the IRS will not question the religious nature of those beliefs.
Churches. Although a church, its integrated auxiliaries, or a convention or association of churches is not required to file Form 1023 to be exempt from federal income tax or to receive tax deductible contributions, the organization may find it advantageous to obtain recognition of exemption. In this event, you should submit information showing that your organization is a church, synagogue, association or convention of churches, religious order, or religious organization that is an integral part of a church, and that it is engaged in carrying out the function of a church.

In determining whether an admittedly religious organization is also a church, the IRS does not accept every assertion that the organization is a church. Because beliefs and practices vary so widely, there is no single definition of the word church for tax purposes. The IRS considers the facts and circumstances of each organization applying for church status.

Convention or association of churches. Any organization that is otherwise a convention or association of churches will not fail to qualify as a church merely because the membership of the organization includes individuals as well as churches or because the individuals have voting rights in the organization.

Integrated auxiliaries. An organization is an integrated auxiliary of a church if all the following are true.

The organization is described both in sections 501(c)(3) and 509(a)(1), 509(a)(2), or 509(a)(3).

It is affiliated with a church or a convention or association of churches.

It is internally supported. An organization is internally supported unless both of the following are true.

It offers admissions, goods, services, or facilities for sale, other than on an incidental basis, to the general public (except goods, services, or facilities sold at a nominal charge or for a small part of the cost).

It normally gets more than 50% of its support from a combination of governmental sources, public solicitation of contributions, and receipts from the sale of admissions, goods, performance of services, or furnishing of facilities in activities that are not unrelated trades or businesses.

Special rule. Men's and women's organizations, seminaries, mission societies, and youth groups that satisfy (1) and (2) shown earlier are integrated auxiliaries of a church even if they are not internally supported.

In order for an organization (including a church and religious organization) to qualify for tax exemption, no part of its net earnings can inure to any individual.

Although an individual is entitled to a charitable deduction for contributions to a church, the assignment or similar transfer of compensation for personal services to a church generally does not relieve a taxpayer of federal income tax liability on the compensation, regardless of the motivation behind the transfer.


http://www.irs.gov/publications/p557...link1000200104

[Sinfix_15]

All of these violate the terms of tax exempt status.

[.blank cd]

you're right..... now imagine how great the world would be if it wasnt.

Humans are dumb, panicky, irrational animals. There will always be religion to quell those people, and as soon as protestant Christianity dies out, there will be something new to replace it.

[.blank cd]

So, if we go back to the "time before religion" we would be back in the Stone Age, living in caves, hunting with spears, etc., right? I'll keep my world of Christians and Muslims, complete with cars, air conditioning, hospitals, and fast food.

Religion was responsible for none of those. Sorry.

And even in the stone age, there was religion, just not "Christianity"

[Jdm94Coupe]

Religion was responsible for none of those. Sorry.

And even in the stone age, there was religion, just not "Christianity"

Oh so true.

[David88vert]

Religion was responsible for none of those. Sorry.

And even in the stone age, there was religion, just not "Christianity"

First "car" was steam powered - created by Ferdinand Verbiest, a Jesuit missionary in China. Karl benz is recognized as the father of the modern car - I have no idea if he was a Christian or religious.

Fast Food - chicken sandwich - Chick-Fil-A, enough said.

Willis Carrier came from a deeply religious Christian family, and went on to bring us modern air conditioning.

The ancient Egyptians and the ancient Greeks linked religion and medicine, see their temples. The first documented institutions that functioned as hospitals were Egyptian temples.

You can't just rule out the effect that religion as a concept has had on modern life.

What religions did the cave man recognized? No one has seemed to be able to determine that, they just guess that they had some sort of religion in the upper paleolithic.

[Echonova]

On a related note.

[Browning151]

On a related note.

I'm amazed at the shit you find sometimes.

[98blackcivic]

dude just go with it lol

[blaknoize]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA what!?!?!

[.blank cd]

First "car" was steam powered - created by Ferdinand Verbiest, a Jesuit missionary in China. Karl benz is recognized as the father of the modern car - I have no idea if he was a Christian or religious.

Fast Food - chicken sandwich - Chick-Fil-A, enough said.

Willis Carrier came from a deeply religious Christian family, and went on to bring us modern air conditioning.

The ancient Egyptians and the ancient Greeks linked religion and medicine, see their temples. The first documented institutions that functioned as hospitals were Egyptian temples.

You can't just rule out the effect that religion as a concept has had on modern life.

What religions did the cave man recognized? No one has seemed to be able to determine that, they just guess that they had some sort of religion in the upper paleolithic.

You just told me that some of the people you designated as the pioneers of those technologies may have been religious, but religion was still not responsible for them, sorry. All of those would have come along, religion or not.

[David88vert]

You just told me that some of the people you designated as the pioneers of those technologies may have been religious, but religion was still not responsible for them, sorry. All of those would have come along, religion or not.

Proof that we would be at the same location in time?

[Elbow]

I still don't get the point in bashing religion, someones belief doesn't effect you...AT ALL.

There are extremist, but there are extremist that aren't into religion either. Your bashing of religion is no different than some insane extremist Christian saying you're going to hell for not going to church.

[Jdm94Coupe]

I still don't get the point in bashing religion, someones belief doesn't effect you...AT ALL.

You joking, right? Not sure if religious people don't notice, but EVERYWHERE you go now days somebodies religion affects you. School, retail stores, gas stations, work, and at your own home. When I was unemployed, the "witnesses" came to my house 3 times a week on average. Face facts man, religious people don't like you not to believe what they believe. And once they find out you don't have a religion, they will do anything in their power to try to get you in "their" church. As if one church will make the difference that the other churches didnt.

Me personally, I am not a religion "basher". I just do not like to be bothered and lectured by people who believe their religion is what "I" need in my life. You have your religion, believe in it and quit trying to make me believe something that is not believable in my eyes. I don't walk around wal-mart handing out flyers to people trying to get them not to believe in god...... so why do religious people? Crazy world we live in. But I deal with it now, when people ask me about religion or wanna talk about it.... i simply say "I have my own relationship with god".... then they'll drop it, lol.

[Elbow]

You joking, right? Not sure if religious people don't notice, but EVERYWHERE you go now days somebodies religion affects you. School, retail stores, gas stations, work, and at your own home. When I was unemployed, the "witnesses" came to my house 3 times a week on average. Face facts man, religious people don't like you not to believe what they believe. And once they find out you don't have a religion, they will do anything in their power to try to get you in "their" church. As if one church will make the difference that the other churches didnt.

Me personally, I am not a religion "basher". I just do not like to be bothered and lectured by people who believe their religion is what "I" need in my life. You have your religion, believe in it and quit trying to make me believe something that is not believable in my eyes. I don't walk around wal-mart handing out flyers to people trying to get them not to believe in god...... so why do religious people? Crazy world we live in. But I deal with it now, when people ask me about religion or wanna talk about it.... i simply say "I have my own relationship with god".... then they'll drop it, lol.

Once again, some, not all, just as some people that don't like religion want to be completely sure you KNOW they don't like religion. If all religious people felt this way you wouldn't even be able to walk without having to stop because someone is trying to feed you something.

I'd love to hear how retail stores, schools, etc all have anything to do with religion.

You live in a Christian dominated country, of course there will be religious holiday type things everywhere in season, but I'm pretty sure last time I walked into Publix the cashier didn't say "are you currently a member of a church?"

[Jdm94Coupe]

Once again, some, not all, just as some people that don't like religion want to be completely sure you KNOW they don't like religion. If all religious people felt this way you wouldn't even be able to walk without having to stop because someone is trying to feed you something.

I'd love to hear how retail stores, schools, etc all have anything to do with religion.

You live in a Christian dominated country, of course there will be religious holiday type things everywhere in season, but I'm pretty sure last time I walked into Publix the cashier didn't say "are you currently a member of a church?"

People who aren't religious don't walk around telling people that what they believe is not right. Not sure what publix you go to, but I've had multiple people come up to me with flyers and papers speaking about their church or their beliefs. And I'm not talking about any holidays, strictly about the people who make it a point to make sure you believe what they do.

[David88vert]

People who aren't religious don't walk around telling people that what they believe is not right. Not sure what publix you go to, but I've had multiple people come up to me with flyers and papers speaking about their church or their beliefs. And I'm not talking about any holidays, strictly about the people who make it a point to make sure you believe what they do.

Are you kidding me? American Atheists (http://www.atheists.org/) specifically targets religious communities:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1316294.html

[Echonova]

[.blank cd]

You really have a reading comprehension problem, don't you?

Do you have any concept of how integrated religion is in Japanese society? How it affects their culture and decision making? Your car is a Japanese import. just think about it for a moment. Christianity is not the only religion.

You do know Japan is one of the most non religious countries in the WORLD right?

[Echonova]

[David88vert]

You do know Japan is one of the most non religious countries in the WORLD right?

You do know that they follow a lot of religious customs for a country that is less religious than many others, right? And, currently, 46% of them still believe in "God/gods". If they are so affected by the tradition of following relgious customs (84%-96%), just think how traditional Islamic countries are integrated into their religion.

You cannot eliminate religion and expect the world to progress the same way, with as many customs and traditions being based upon religion.

[.blank cd]

^ Are you sure you wanna go the billboard route? Lol. I can show you 100x as many billboards that are WORSE from the other side.