Vagina hurting? Vent in here.

[Elbow]

There is nothing wrong with Neons, not any other limited series racing; however, you cannot say that a street car with a couple of bolt on suspension pieces is suddenly a racecar, because it was put on at the factory. You turn around and call all the people that do the same thing aftermarket ricers. That's nothing but trying to boost your own ego. The ACR was available with A/C, not something most racecars have.

A 150 hp street car is nothing like an 800hp engineered racecar. If you think they are, you haven't driven a race car.

Modern cars that top out at 115-120mph, and no different from their street counterparts, are not racecars to me. Just because you take a car on a track does not turn it into a racecar. Just like if you take a tube chassis car, and put lights and a tag on it, doesn't make it a street car.

Well we're going to just have to disagree then. What I get from what you're saying is that a car modified to be a race car isn't a race car. In this case, the ACR Neon was modified to a start to be a race car. I'm saying this particular car, started life from the dealer, went to get a cage, and has raced sense. The fact that it has road racing logbooks and what not makes it a race car, simple as that.

I've driven purpose built race cars and of course there is a difference. I'm saying though to me a race car is a race car. If it can legally compete in a wheel to wheel race then it is a race car. It doesn't matter if it goes 10mph, it's still a race car. I am very open minded when it comes to my definition of a race car and I've seen just about any type of car you can think of racing, maybe that's why I disagree what what you're saying.

Who have I called a ricer? The 240 guy just to piss him off. Like I said though, if I bought a Civic, put a full cage, fire system, seat, harness, etc. Chose a class, did some work, got a logbook for it, then yes, it very well IS a race car. The only reason I keep saying is the ACR wasn't a street car or was built to be a race car is that it WAS, I didn't buy an ACR and turn it into a race car. I'm speaking of my car in this situation.

As for the A/C thing, I don't know what the ACR could or couldn't come with, like I said I don't know much about Neons, I bought it because it was ready to race, not because I like Neons. lol I do know this one doesn't have A/C though. I also know most race cars these days in larger series DO have A/C, just not the factory installed type.

If you have a Showroom Stock ACR which is a basically stock car and it turns the same laps as a street ACR, the SS ACR is still a race car. Why? It's legal to race. THAT is my definition of what a race car is, if it races, it's a race car.

[Elbow]

let me turn mine into a racecar. jk.

Go for it. However Vincent Diesieldwarf sitting next to you may get angry since you owe him a 10 second car and neons aren't legal on a race track. So....good luck Brian.

[David88vert]

Well we're going to just have to disagree then. What I get from what you're saying is that a car modified to be a race car isn't a race car. In this case, the ACR Neon was modified to a start to be a race car. I'm saying this particular car, started life from the dealer, went to get a cage, and has raced sense. The fact that it has road racing logbooks and what not makes it a race car, simple as that.

I've driven purpose built race cars and of course there is a difference. I'm saying though to me a race car is a race car. If it can legally compete in a wheel to wheel race then it is a race car. It doesn't matter if it goes 10mph, it's still a race car. I am very open minded when it comes to my definition of a race car and I've seen just about any type of car you can think of racing, maybe that's why I disagree what what you're saying.

Who have I called a ricer? The 240 guy just to piss him off. Like I said though, if I bought a Civic, put a full cage, fire system, seat, harness, etc. Chose a class, did some work, got a logbook for it, then yes, it very well IS a race car. The only reason I keep saying is the ACR wasn't a street car or was built to be a race car is that it WAS, I didn't buy an ACR and turn it into a race car. I'm speaking of my car in this situation.

As for the A/C thing, I don't know what the ACR could or couldn't come with, like I said I don't know much about Neons, I bought it because it was ready to race, not because I like Neons. lol I do know this one doesn't have A/C though. I also know most race cars these days in larger series DO have A/C, just not the factory installed type.

If you have a Showroom Stock ACR which is a basically stock car and it turns the same laps as a street ACR, the SS ACR is still a race car. Why? It's legal to race. THAT is my definition of what a race car is, if it races, it's a race car.

We definitely disagree, as that definition puts every street car that ever rolled off the line as a racecar, if it runs just once.
By that definition, any car that is on track in a race - even just once - is a race car. Basically, a bonestock VW diesel that enters a bracket race on Saturday afternoon at Commerce, is still a race car. Even though it would do 22-23 seconds.
Any stock Kia that is entered in a track day event that participates in a lunch time race would be a racecar.
A lawnmower could be considered a race car if it was on a track even - and only doing your 10mph.

To me, those are just street cars that are being enjoyed, but not race cars. As an example, my old RX7 (GSL-SE, not the FD) was caged, built suspension, motor, etc, and I did not consider it to be a racecar. It was just a street car that saw some occasional track time.

Ultimately, as long as you enjoy the car, that is all that matters though. If you want to consider it to be a racecar, that is up to you.

[iamdallas]

Cars first were first built as luxury transportation and then raced. For me, the history of automobile racing says that you can buy a car from the factory and race it. And so, it becomes a racing car.

And what about Touring Car races? They're not race cars? They're production cars with bolt ons (in some cases) and they're racing around a track... so what does that make them?

There are even showroom stock classes that run stock cars of the same make. Purpose built race cars are definitely more impressive, but they're not the only race car.

I think the definition of a race car depends on whether or not you ACTUALLY REGULARLY use it as a racing vehicle. I think if a purpose built race car were left in a showroom or a museum it's entire life it kind of negates the fact that it is honestly a race car. But that's hard to distinguish and I really don't want to piss anyone off.

How a car is primarily used defines what it is.

Just respectfully disagreeing with you, david88vert. You've got some good points that I do agree with though.

[Elbow]

We definitely disagree, as that definition puts every street car that ever rolled off the line as a racecar, if it runs just once.
By that definition, any car that is on track in a race - even just once - is a race car. Basically, a bonestock VW diesel that enters a bracket race on Saturday afternoon at Commerce, is still a race car. Even though it would do 22-23 seconds.
Any stock Kia that is entered in a track day event that participates in a lunch time race would be a racecar.
A lawnmower could be considered a race car if it was on a track even - and only doing your 10mph.

To me, those are just street cars that are being enjoyed, but not race cars. As an example, my old RX7 (GSL-SE, not the FD) was caged, built suspension, motor, etc, and I did not consider it to be a racecar. It was just a street car that saw some occasional track time.

Ultimately, as long as you enjoy the car, that is all that matters though. If you want to consider it to be a racecar, that is up to you.

Drag racing and road racing...HUGE difference. I'm ONLY talking about road course cars. Did your RX-7 have a logbook? If not, then of course it wasn't a race car. Time trials is not racing. I'm talking about RACING, wheel to wheel racing, not against the clock. As those are all competitive forms of motorsport, there is a difference there. Just about anyone can bring anything and do drag racing or time trials.

The difference in your RX-7 and my car is that my car was built to be a race car, that was its sole purpose in life, nothing more. It has everything needed to race, it's been raced, that's all there is to it.

[Bacon]

I would slightly disagree with time trials not being a form of racing. Directly....no it's not in the fact that you are racing against a clock, an inanimate object that can't compete against you. Indirectly, in the sense, that you are trying to keep a better time than someone else therefore making it a "race". The terms "race" and "racing" are used loosely and can mean several things. IMO, if you are using a car in a competitive sport against another individual, yourself, or a machine....it is considered "racing".

Bottom line: Simon's car was built with a purpose in mind and that was to be a track car. I will assume that Sinfix's 240 was built as an all around good vehicle that can serve several functions.

[Elbow]

I would slightly disagree with time trials not being a form of racing. Directly....no it's not in the fact that you are racing against a clock, an inanimate object that can't compete against you. Indirectly, in the sense, that you are trying to keep a better time than someone else therefore making it a "race". The terms "race" and "racing" are used loosely and can mean several things. IMO, if you are using a car in a competitive sport against another individual, yourself, or a machine....it is considered "racing".

Bottom line: Simon's car was built with a purpose in mind and that was to be a track car. I will assume that Sinfix's 240 was built as an all around good vehicle that can serve several functions.

I agree, I mainly meant that a time trials car doesn't usually have to be prepared the same as a road racing car. In my opinion if your car is required to have all of that safety equipment and be scrutinized and be issued a competition logbook than it is a race car. Some time trial events don't even require a roll bar.

[David88vert]

Drag racing and road racing...HUGE difference. I'm ONLY talking about road course cars. Did your RX-7 have a logbook? If not, then of course it wasn't a race car. Time trials is not racing. I'm talking about RACING, wheel to wheel racing, not against the clock. As those are all competitive forms of motorsport, there is a difference there. Just about anyone can bring anything and do drag racing or time trials.

The difference in your RX-7 and my car is that my car was built to be a race car, that was its sole purpose in life, nothing more. It has everything needed to race, it's been raced, that's all there is to it.

So drag racing, and time trials aren't racing? So the cars used for them aren't racecars? Your stock Neon is more of a racecar that a Pikes Peaks hillclimber?
I guess that my old tube chassis, sheet metal body, dirt tracker wasn't a race car, as we didn't keep a log book, and it wasn't on a paved road course - even though I ran it door-todoor multiple seasons on the track when I was younger than you are now. Granted, it looked way worse than your Neon, and didn't turn except with the throttle.

[David88vert]

I agree, I mainly meant that a time trials car doesn't usually have to be prepared the same as a road racing car. In my opinion if your car is required to have all of that safety equipment and be scrutinized and be issued a competition logbook than it is a race car. Some time trial events don't even require a roll bar.

I'm going to take my grandmother's old Buick Century, bolt in a cage, and get a log book - then I'll have a racecar!

[David88vert]

I would slightly disagree with time trials not being a form of racing. Directly....no it's not in the fact that you are racing against a clock, an inanimate object that can't compete against you. Indirectly, in the sense, that you are trying to keep a better time than someone else therefore making it a "race". The terms "race" and "racing" are used loosely and can mean several things. IMO, if you are using a car in a competitive sport against another individual, yourself, or a machine....it is considered "racing".

Bottom line: Simon's car was built with a purpose in mind and that was to be a track car. I will assume that Sinfix's 240 was built as an all around good vehicle that can serve several functions.

I completely agree.
And I think both car's serve their purpose.

[Bacon]

IMO, you don't have to have a logbook to say a car is a race car. I can take my mostly stock Integra LS to the drag strip and say it's a race car. Why? Simply because it was used in some sort of competition. To competition officials, they don't see it as a race car because of the lack of preparation that a typical race prepped vehicle has. Everyone sees race cars differently.

[lanning]

YOU WANNA SEE A GOD DAMN RACE CAR WATCH THIS SHIT LOL

[Elbow]

So drag racing, and time trials aren't racing? So the cars used for them aren't racecars? Your stock Neon is more of a racecar that a Pikes Peaks hillclimber?
I guess that my old tube chassis, sheet metal body, dirt tracker wasn't a race car, as we didn't keep a log book, and it wasn't on a paved road course - even though I ran it door-todoor multiple seasons on the track when I was younger than you are now. Granted, it looked way worse than your Neon, and didn't turn except with the throttle.

You really just don't have a clue what I'm saying. Pikes Peak isn't the same as regular time trials either, it requires road race prep.

I'm going to take my grandmother's old Buick Century, bolt in a cage, and get a log book - then I'll have a racecar!

You need a bit more than that but yeah if you did it all it would be a race car.

IMO, you don't have to have a logbook to say a car is a race car. I can take my mostly stock Integra LS to the drag strip and say it's a race car. Why? Simply because it was used in some sort of competition. To competition officials, they don't see it as a race car because of the lack of preparation that a typical race prepped vehicle has. Everyone sees race cars differently.

Well then we will all just disagree. I'm not even talking about drag racing anywhere in here, I have NO interest in drag racing, it's not my thing. I'm mainly talking about car prep. and what it takes to race it on a road course.

[Bacon]

I used drag racing as an example. Figured you could have figured that one out.

[Elbow]

I used drag racing as an example. Figured you could have figured that one out.

Well technically if you took it and raced it sure it's a race car I guess, but that wasn't its primary purpose so I wouldn't consider it a race car. If you bought it just to do that with, then it would be a race car. lol In drag racing. I have no clue about drag racing or what's required though.

[280zx 2by2]

In my opinion a stock ACR is 20x better than a stock 240. The 240 wasn't made to be a performance.

Move along here people, there is no saving this man...





Anyone who thinks a pos neon with slightly stiffer suspension is more of a racecar than a rwd coupe with a fully independent suspension and had several models come equiped with a viscous differential in an IRS rear end is beyond being saved from the level of fanboyism Simon Tubby exudes.

[Bacon]

Drag racing is simple.....stomp the gas and don't turn lol

[Elbow]

Move along here people, there is no saving this man...





Anyone who thinks a pos neon with slightly stiffer suspension is more of a racecar than a rwd coupe with a fully independent suspension and had several models come equiped with a viscous differential in an IRS rear end is beyond being saved from the level of fanboyism Simon Tubby exudes.

Wow...I hope you read what you just wrote and edit it because you just made yourself look stupid as shit.

[Elbow]

Drag racing is simple.....stomp the gas and don't turn lol

LOL I know HOW it works, I just don't know rules or license requirements, classes, any of that.

[Bacon]

All that doesn't matter. It was an example and we can leave it at that.

[Elbow]

All that doesn't matter. It was an example and we can leave it at that.

Fair enough.

[DA9_Vito]

Go for it. However Vincent Diesieldwarf sitting next to you may get angry since you owe him a 10 second car and neons aren't legal on a race track. So....good luck Brian.

I got a good lol out of that, ive thought about setting mine up for autocross but idk yet i like drag better. but turning aint hard, its fun.

[Elbow]

I got a good lol out of that, ive thought about setting mine up for autocross but idk yet i like drag better. but turning aint hard, its fun.

Huh? Drag racing is harder than autocross? lol

[280zx 2by2]

Wow...I hope you read what you just wrote and edit it because you just made yourself look stupid as shit.

I could go "herp derp derp derp Nissan > all" in all of my 76 posts and still not exhibit the level of ignorance and bias you have.

[Bacon]

I could go "herp derp derp derp Nissan > all" in all of my 76 posts and still not exhibit the level of ignorance and bias you have.

77 posts but that's neither here nor there lol

[quickdodge®]

There is nothing wrong with Neons, not any other limited series racing; however, you cannot say that a street car with a couple of bolt on suspension pieces is suddenly a racecar, because it was put on at the factory. You turn around and call all the people that do the same thing aftermarket ricers. That's nothing but trying to boost your own ego. The ACR was available with A/C, not something most racecars have.

The ACR did come with adjustable Koni shocks. It did NOT come with AC. AC was an option, like on another car. The ACR was designed and built to be a track car that could be driven daily as well. Even the radio was an option in the ACR model. Later, QD.

[Elbow]

I could go "herp derp derp derp Nissan > all" in all of my 76 posts and still not exhibit the level of ignorance and bias you have.

Bias? Explain that one. You think I'm a Neon fanboy. Like I said, I ONLY bought this car because it is a ready to race race car and it's cheap as hell to work on. I've owned a 240SX for one thing and use to be a huge 240 fanboy until I spent more time working on them than I did driving them. You really make yourself seem ignorant, you turn internet fun into what you're imagining to be serious business. Go to school or something. lol

[280zx 2by2]

77 posts but that's neither here nor there lol

LETTUCE BE CEREAL... It was 76 when I typed it and before I clicked Post Quick Reply.

[Elbow]

LETTUCE BE CEREAL... It was 76 when I typed it and before I clicked Post Quick Reply.

There is no better way to prove you're in middle school by using elementary school lingo.

[280zx 2by2]

Bias? Explain that one. You think I'm a Neon fanboy. Like I said, I ONLY bought this car because it is a ready to race race car and it's cheap as hell to work on. I've owned a 240SX for one thing and use to be a huge 240 fanboy until I spent more time working on them than I did driving them. You really make yourself seem ignorant, you turn internet fun into what you're imagining to be serious business. Go to school or something. lol

So because you bought a pos special edition neon that had the interior stripped out of it (propbably because it smelled like a bar from the hooker that owned it before you.) and then had someone put you in a roll cage that makes it an awesome race car?



Damn what would a 240sx with a stripped interior and a cage be? An F1 car?



My God I have more respect for the kid whos in that gay club with that green riced out integera with neons then you... At least he has a grasp of reality.

[280zx 2by2]

There is no better way to prove you're in middle school by using elementary school lingo.

COOL STORY BRO!


At least im not a fat ass who daily drives a shitty as neon and tells people its a racecar when they ask why there are no interior pannels and the AC doesn't work.

[Bacon]

So because you bought a pos special edition neon that had the interior stripped out of it (propbably because it smelled like a bar from the hooker that owned it before you.) and then had someone put you in a roll cage that makes it an awesome race car?



Damn what would a 240sx with a stripped interior and a cage be? An F1 car?



My God I have more respect for the kid whos in that gay club with that green riced out integera with neons then you... At least he has a grasp of reality.

I'd be willing to bet that he bought the car with the cage in it. Simon, care to prove that theory wrong?

[Elbow]

So because you bought a pos special edition neon that had the interior stripped out of it (propbably because it smelled like a bar from the hooker that owned it before you.) and then had someone put you in a roll cage that makes it an awesome race car?



Damn what would a 240sx with a stripped interior and a cage be? An F1 car?



My God I have more respect for the kid whos in that gay club with that green riced out integera with neons then you... At least he has a grasp of reality.

Did you read any of this?

The car I bought was never a street car. It was bought from Dodge in 1997 (not by me) and turned right into a race car. It won a divisional championship in 1998 in SSC, it raced in the Neon Challenge series (semi-pro), enduros, etc. It has a bit of history, including quite a few well known drivers driving it, wins, being in Autoweek, a Canadian postage stamp, etc. I bought it from a guy who bought it and had it sitting in his works garage at Road Atlanta and needed it gone, I got a killer deal on it, it was cheap and ready to go. So I did not build this car, it wasn't a hooker fucking street car, and it doesn't just have a roll cage in it for me to call it a race car.

Having driven a few caged stripped 240s, no, it's a decent handling car. Depending on suspension.

I have more reality than you because I'm a very open minded individual, you don't read anything in here or even know what an ACR is.

[Elbow]

I'd be willing to bet that he bought the car with the cage in it. Simon, care to prove that theory wrong?

No, I bought the car basically as it is, in fact most of the interior was still in because it was last raced in SSC which required full interior, even carpet. The only reason I took it out was to weld the cage plates in and fix some wiring that I needed to work with for the kill switch. Plus there is no point in having carpet in a track car. Still has door panels too. Buying an already built and worked out race car is SOOOOO much better than building your own and usually a LOT cheaper.

As for my A/C not working, it doesn't have A/C. Nice try though 280ZX kiddo.

[DA9_Vito]

My God I have more respect for the kid whos in that gay club with that green riced out integera with neons then you... At least he has a grasp of reality.[/QUOTE]

your 18 and your calling me a kid.

[Elbow]

My God I have more respect for the kid whos in that gay club with that green riced out integera with neons then you... At least he has a grasp of reality.

your 18 and your calling me a kid.[/QUOTE]

He's not very bright.

[Bacon]

vitodon, learn to quote.

[lanning]

My God I have more respect for the kid whos in that gay club with that green riced out integera with neons then you... At least he has a grasp of reality.

your 18 and your calling me a kid.[/QUOTE]
Out of that whole quote you took offense to the kid part?

[DA9_Vito]

Huh? Drag racing is harder than autocross? lol

no i was sayin id like to do autocross. but i like drag racing better.... i was saying the turning part aint hard in racing like some think it is.... not you.

[280zx 2by2]

My God I have more respect for the kid whos in that gay club with that green riced out integera with neons then you... At least he has a grasp of reality.

your 18 and your calling me a kid.[/QUOTE]

You obviously have the mentality of a child to be openly associated in a club full of ricers that does nothing but meet in parking lots and talk about what the best brand of black spray paint is for hoods.