nothing i said was a generalization. What i said was fact. Health Insurance premiums, are RISING, not falling. That statement is said as a matter of averages. I didnt say "ALL HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS FOR EVERYONE ARE RISING". Are you trolling or just being really dense?Originally Posted by .blank cd
Use some critical thinking.
Your premium is not indicative of the entire spectrum, and the chart i posted from the Census Bureau proves that.
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We both agree that decoupling is a good idea. I understand we are on the same page there. You are refuting my other point though when you say "Total compensation would decrease, there is no question of that". I am questioning that. Generally speaking, I do not think the type of benefits provided change the overall total compensation companies offer. Of course we can argue about the subjective value of benefits (e.g., the value of a benefit that promotes company loyalty) but I don't think this distinction is important enough to warrant much discussion. Indeed we should be careful with major overhauls of such pervasive and important policies such as health care but you can't calculate every possible consequence so at some point you have to make your best estimates and move forward.
It doesn't have to be bi-partisan to be democratic. A majority of the bills passed for at least the last decade have been mostly along party lines. That doesn't make them undemocratic.
There are a lot of problems with Obamacare no doubt. I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks its anywhere near perfect. When you have such a diversity of opinions from libertarian laissez-faire to single payer, any bill you draft is probably going to piss off a lot of people. When it comes to politicians exempting themselves, that's par for the course. Look at how they allow themselves to make tons of money in the stock market off insider information that would be totally illegal for a normal citizen. Only in the last couple years have they even been giving lip service to that but that doesn't mean we should have laws against insider trading.
Well well well, what do we have here?
Some unions now angry about health care overhaul - Yahoo! Finance
But this thing is gonna be great, right guys?
This does not come as a surprise to anyone that actually thought about the effects of Obamacare.
Not at all.
The CBO projected it will end up saving money, so I think those few unions need to pump the brakes a little.
Just ignore all of the companies who are cutting back and laying off because of this......
this is good for business!!! says democrats.
Please explain the difference between static and dynamic predictions please.
The CBO predictions are almost useless because of the difference between dynamic and static.
Sent from my S3 using Tapatalk 2.
Your CBO Update in simple form: CBO: Obamacare estimated cost nearly double to $1.7 trillion | WPMT FOX43
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
The CBO did a shitty estimate BEFORE it was passed that came up with some imaginary numbers that counted the donut hole savings twice. But since prob 2010, its all been growing exponentially, it is not debatable that Obamacare is going to COST money, not save. Not even close.
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CBO just recently said the opposite. They would like to debate you. Lol
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43471
CBO estimates are useless because of the way they are required by law to estimate.
This is a good counter argument but I still dont believe it. The rules still arent even written to cover much of Obamacare so there is still a lot of changes that will have to be made.
Your article does point out a significant fact though. Some estimates see costs rising dramaticly because the younger, healthier people dont jump into the markets in as large of numbers as expected. The article also doesnt say if they account for businesses that will reduce or eliminate coverage.
In the end, year 2 is the year I expect to see what rates really do. Insurers are dealing this a brand new dynamic in year one and there is no way to know exactly how it will turn out.
The first large exchange just came online - for California ( Affordable Health Insurance | Covered California? ). Washington, Oregon, etc, are also opened up.
So far, it looks like people will be really limited in what plans and providers they can choose from - only 13 providers so far, and what doctors they can go to. Obama's claim that "you can keep your same doctor", does not appear to be panning out. However, the rates appear to be much better than initially expected, but are still subject to approval, and may still go up before implementation in 219 days.
Covered California insurance marketplace to have limited choice - UPI.com
13 insurers offer policies on Covered California exchange, including Anthem, BCBS, Kaiser | MedCity News
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Cheapest Obamacare plan will be $20k per family....
Lets show an example for a couple making a combined income of $120k per year.
Well this year my high deductible plan costs 16433/yr. That is for me, my wife, and my son. So at that rate, the cost for 5 people would be 16422/3*5=$27388. This is the cheapest plan my company offers by the way.
Also from the IRS report but the article neglected to mention is that individuals will be exempt if the contributions are more than 8% of their income (MAGI) (Page 8, 23)
Add IBEW to the list...
Electrical workers union jumps aboard anti-Obamacare bus - Washington Times
This should be no surprise to anyone. In 2010 there were a half dozen people on this site that were saying you werent keeping your doctor or plan. If us laymen could see it, why couldnt everyone else?
Chris "Tingles" Matthews syndrome?
People see what they want to see.
Using the exact same rules as Obamacare I could put forth a plan that actually would bring the prices down. I can also do it in a way that would be FAR less burdensome on the economy, and it does carry with it a mandate to carry health insurance. The difference is, people would be required to carry only a major medical plan, not a catch all plan. My plan also covers what causes a medical bankruptcy, a major medical emergency. People arent going bankrupt because they had to pay $5 for their birth control pills or to cover $1200 for xrays on a hurt ankle. They are going broke because of a 500k heart attack or a 1mil cancer fight
Guess Im not the only one who's premiums went down...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/he...l-50.html?_r=0
Add the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, United Food and Commercial Workers International Union, UNITE-HERE to the list now upset about Obamacare.
Labor Unions: Obamacare Will 'Shatter' Our Health Benefits, Cause 'Nightmare Scenarios' - Forbes
“When you and the President sought our support for the Affordable Care Act, you pledged that if we liked the health plans we have now, we could keep them. Sadly, that promise is under threat…We have been strong supporters of the notion that all Americans should have access to quality, affordable health care. We have also been strong supporters of you. In campaign after campaign we have put boots on the ground, gone door-to-door to get out the vote, run phone banks and raised money to secure this vision. Now this vision has come back to haunt us.”
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
a section of obamacare, read it and form your own opinion.
https://grants3.hrsa.gov/2010/Web2Ex...e&pageNumber=1
More insurers pull out:
Big insurers ditching Obamacare exchanges - Sep. 10, 2013
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Obamacare in GA (more relevant to us):
"Kyle Wingfield, a columnist for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, outlined them this way:
• A 25-year-old, non-smoking male can currently buy the cheapest, no frills plan with high out-of-pocket costs for about $66 a month. If the premium hikes go through, that plan would cost from $150-197 a month, depending on the insurer.
• A 45-year-old male non-smoker can find a low-cost plan for $119 a month. A similar plan offered under the exchange would cost from $217 to $234 per month.
• A 64-year-old male non-smoker can find a low-cost plan for $293 a month. Similar plans offered through Obamacare would cost from $450 to $501 per month.
At the 11th hour, two private health insurers that do business in Georgia, Aetna and its subsidiary, Coventry Health Care, announced that neither would participate in Georgia’s exchange, expected to be operating Oct. 1. Officials for the companies doubted that the plans they would offer would be “financially viable” — meaning that they don’t make sense because they would be net losers for the company. That’s the not-so-hidden flaw in Obamacare — it’s going to require a massive subsidy to keep afloat."
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
The hits just keep on comin', but it's ok because we already know the end-game of Obamacare; single payer. It won't take long for this thing to become a massive failure once it's fully rolled out and you'll start hearing the calls of "we tried and it failed, the only solution now is a single payer system."
None of this is news and many of us said it was going to happen 3 years ago.
As I said before, Obamacare was purposefully designed to put insurers out of business. This is not among the unintended consequences, it was intended from the start.
And as I read this, my premiums continue to fall, on Aetna. This tells me there's a difference between the rhetoric, and what's actually happening.
The healthcare lobby is probably the biggest lobby in existence. If they didnt want Obamacare, we wouldn't have Obamacare. Simple as that.
Hospitals stand to make a lot of money off this. Insurers will lose their ass on it.
On the other hand, I cold see doctors and insurers making huge money on this. Doctors increase their rates by 10% across the board. Insurers dont fight it, they just pass the costs on to consumers. Because their payouts will be so much higher, the profit side of the 20% that doesnt go directly to heathcare will also be higher. Then again, why stop at 10%, why not 50%?
I'm just going to come right out and call you a liar.
Call what you want. My premiums, with Aetna, are lower this year than they were last year.
you might want to look over your declarations page and see how your coverages changed. It is also possible your employer is picking up a larger percentage.
I just compared the quotes from BCBS and Kaiser to what I am paying now. They want over $1800/month now to cover a healthy family of four with less coverage than I currently have. That's triple what it costs, and they say that these rates that I just had quoted are expected to go up on 10/1, when they have to comply with the ACA.
How does Obama expect a family of four to pay out $1800/month of health insurance?
Looking at the cheapest option that was available ($5000 ded. per individ.), the cost comes down to just over $600/month.
Good thing that I have private insurance through my employer.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
then youre not telling us something.
Same coverage, same members, same EVERYTHING.
Tell you what, blank out the Account Number , leave your last name, and post a copy of last years statements and this years. Should be EASY.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
hes not telling us something, or hes not accurate as the plan has changed.
Even my Doctor has told me that come 10/1 expect my private insurance to go up. I pay $234 a month, I paid $134 3 years ago
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-www.usedbarcode.net
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