Higher tax crowd, come on in.

[bu villain]

Too put it simple, ALL THE ABOVE. Want to talk about FAIR SHARE? Both sides have been overpromising and under delivering for a generation.

The simple answer is everyone and i mean EVERYONE is going to have to pay. Theres ways to do it without shafting people directly, like raising SS age, phasing it in, privatizing it, etc.

Definitely agree that we need to restructure our debts so that we can afford them and minimize the pain but if we don't increase the debt ceiling before make those changes (raising SS age etc) then there will be a lot of pain immediately and it will not be done in a way that most people consider fair.

There are no laws that require spending except SS and medicare. Promises have been made, but since when has a politician been trustworthy? Who should be shafted? No one needs to get shafted. Some people just wont get paid to sit at home on unemployment for 4 years. Welfare requirements could go back to where they were 5 years ago. The list goes on and on with pork projects and handout programs that dove the vast majority of the budget short falls.

It's not just welfare spending. It's all the government spending including debt interest, military salaries, immigration enforcement, employee salaries, etc. You could end unemployment insurance tomorrow (UI maxes out at less than 2 years, not sure where you got 4 years from) and still not get close to making all the payments on everything else. We need to cut spending but it needs to be done in a smart way, not just in a cut all cash flow and let the chips fall where they may manner.

[BanginJimmy]

Definitely agree that we need to restructure our debts so that we can afford them and minimize the pain but if we don't increase the debt ceiling before make those changes (raising SS age etc) then there will be a lot of pain immediately and it will not be done in a way that most people consider fair.

Which is exactly what the GOP has been asking for. A way to reduce the deficits and eventually debt by overhauling the programs that drive it. SS and Medicare along with defense are what drive the deficits. GOP wont touch defense, Dems wont touch SS and medicare. So we are left with little fringe slowing in growth and zero cuts. The so called Sandy relief bill has more pork than relief in it.

It's not just welfare spending. It's all the government spending including debt interest, military salaries, immigration enforcement, employee salaries, etc. You could end unemployment insurance tomorrow (UI maxes out at less than 2 years, not sure where you got 4 years from) and still not get close to making all the payments on everything else. We need to cut spending but it needs to be done in a smart way, not just in a cut all cash flow and let the chips fall where they may manner.

No, its not just welfare spending. Its every program and agency. HHS could hire 50K fraud investigators and pay them 100k a year to investigate medicare and medicaid fraud and the US would save $10 for every dollar spent on them. Will it ever happen? Hell no.

Who came up with this idea that if we dont raise the debt ceiling the US will have no money? As I already explained, the US has around 6B a DAY coming into its coffers. All of our debt would be served, there would be no default. All of the SS checks would go out and clear. All of the medicare bills will be paid. Where the cuts will come in is in unnecessary programs and agencies. DHS can go away and take the TSA with them, there is 110m a day in savings. The Dept of Ed. can go away and take their 300M a day budget with them. Congress wanted 17B in pork in the Sandy bill. Thats is 50M A DAY over the next year. How many billions a year to go colleges for research? Its great for everyone involved, but we still dont have the cash.

[bu villain]

SS and Medicare along with defense are what drive the deficits. GOP wont touch defense, Dems wont touch SS and medicare. So we are left with little fringe slowing in growth and zero cuts.

Nothing to argue with here.

Who came up with this idea that if we dont raise the debt ceiling the US will have no money? As I already explained, the US has around 6B a DAY coming into its coffers. All of our debt would be served, there would be no default. All of the SS checks would go out and clear. All of the medicare bills will be paid. Where the cuts will come in is in unnecessary programs and agencies. DHS can go away and take the TSA with them, there is 110m a day in savings. The Dept of Ed. can go away and take their 300M a day budget with them. Congress wanted 17B in pork in the Sandy bill. Thats is 50M A DAY over the next year. How many billions a year to go colleges for research? Its great for everyone involved, but we still dont have the cash.

But we both know that those "unnecessary programs" (which many people consider necessary) would not simply go away. It's easy to come up with a solution when you don't take into account what other people value and the reality of politics.