BSA and Chick fil A anti-gay

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You aren't debunking anything. It's a fact that Christians originally sailed and settled here. Our government and laws came from these people's descendants. That does not mean that the government cannot change over time.

As for one man and woman - maybe because more than one wife is just too much trouble to deal with on a daily basis?

It's a fact that some theists came here to get away from.....

Religious oppression.

Some were Christian, others were not. They created a land where every individual was free to worship as they pleased and the government had nothing to do with it. This is called secularity. The statement America was founded on Christian principles is inherently false because there are no principles that exclusively apply to Christianity that don't apply to another religion. So in the same vain, you could say America was founded on Buddhist principles or Muslim principles, it doesn't matter.

Guess what it's called when the government starts making laws to benefit one particular religion....

You guessed it. Religious oppression.

[David88vert]

It's a fact that some theists came here to get away from.....

Religious oppression.

Some were Christian, others were not. They created a land where every individual was free to worship as they pleased and the government had nothing to do with it. This is called secularity. The statement America was founded on Christian principles is inherently false because there are no principles that exclusively apply to Christianity that don't apply to another religion. So in the same vain, you could say America was founded on Buddhist principles or Muslim principles, it doesn't matter.

Guess what it's called when the government starts making laws to benefit one particular religion....

You guessed it. Religious oppression.

We partially agree. On some things though, you are out in left field without a clue. This was founded as a Christian nation. Look it up.

The colony of Plymouth was founded by Pilgrims, English Dissenters or Separatists, Calvinists.
The colonies of Massachusetts Bay, New Haven, and New Hampshire were founded by Puritan, Calvinist, Protestants.
New Netherland was founded by Dutch Reformed Calvinists.
The colonies of New York, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia were officially Church of England.
When New France was transferred to Great Britain in 1763, the Catholic Church remained under toleration, but Huguenots were allowed entrance where they had formerly been banned from settlement by Parisian authorities.
The Colony of Maryland was founded by a charter granted in 1632 to George Calvert, secretary of state to Charles I, and his son Cecil, both recent converts to Catholicism. Under their leadership many English Catholic gentry families settled in Maryland. However, the colonial government was officially neutral in religious affairs, granting toleration to all Christian groups and enjoining them to avoid actions which antagonized the others. On several occasions low-church dissenters led insurrections which temporarily overthrew the Calvert rule. In 1689, when William and Mary came to the English throne, they acceded to demands to revoke the original royal charter. In 1701 the Church of England was proclaimed, and in the course of the eighteenth century Maryland Catholics were first barred from public office, then disenfranchised, although not all of the laws passed against them (notably laws restricting property rights and imposing penalties for sending children to be educated in foreign Catholic institutions) were enforced, and some Catholics even continued to hold public office.
Spanish Florida was ceded to Great Britain in 1763, the British divided Florida into two colonies. Both East and West Florida continued a policy of toleration for the Catholic Residents.
The Province of Pennsylvania was founded by Quakers, but the colony never had an established church.
West Jersey, also founded by Quakers, prohibited any establishment.
Delaware Colony had no established church.
The Colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, founded by religious dissenters forced to flee the Massachusetts Bay colony, is widely regarded as the first polity to grant religious freedom to all its citizens.


Religious oppression was a motivating factor for some individuals - the Pilgrims in 1620 is who you are mostly referring to.

However, a larger amount of people came to Virginia, and not due to religious persecution, but rather for the opportunity to make a life for themselves. Back in Europe, generally the eldest son inherited from his father - the others had to fend for themselves. America was an opportunity for many to escape a poor existance in a crowded area, and to create their own life, and to own their own land. These individuals were Christian generally, and Christian churches sprang up everywhere. These are the people who founded this country, not large groups of Muslims, Buddists, etc.

The First Amendment is there to prevent the government from establising a state religion - remember England? The founders were all to familiar with the Church of England, and that the King of England was the head. Review your history to learn about it's rift with the Catholic Church.
The First Amendment does not state that no religion should be in government. It's not a firewall between religion and government. The founding fathers had no problem with religious beliefs and customs being involved with the government, but they did not want the government to dicate a state religion to all, and wanted everyone to have tolerance to practice their religious beliefs as they saw fit.
There is no such thing as separation of Church and State in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. The phrase came from Thomas Jefferson in a letter in 1802. What does it mean? In the words of Justice Hugo Black, it means that "the government cannot promote, endorse, or fund religion or religious institutions". It does not mean that people cannot follow their beliefs in public office, or that no religious activities can be performed on government grounds.

[Sammich]

wall of text...i'm out lol

[geoff]

David88vert: you can put as many facts as you want for blank to read, but he just reads between the lines and copy/pastes from quotes or articles he believes share his views. He will argue with you till the end of time regardless of facts. I agree with pretty mucg everything you said.

If someone wants to be gay or have gay intercourse, I nor anyone can stop it or should be allowed to. God gives us free will to choose how to live our lives. Most outside of the gay community consider this choice or lifestyle a perversion. No straight person would consider a man giving another man a rim job, blow job, ect..."a beautiful act of nature". It's simple fact that the rectum was not meant to be stretched and used for a penis to plow in. Therefore, it's natural use has been perverted. My problem with the gay community is not that they wish to be gay, it's that they wish for their ways to be the norm. There is not a shred of scientific evidence that suggests homosexuality is genetic. Therefore it is a choice. But the gay community would have the populous believe otherwise. They compare their agenda to the battle blacks and women fought for equality...lol. They have no right to teach youth in schools that "gay is normal". They have no right to force their lifestyle to be accepted by everyone. There are people that practice incest and bestiality, you don't see them marching and rallying to gain approval. The gay community is the biggest group of hypocrites. They preach equality yet if you disagree with them then you are a "bigot" and full of "hate". Get a life people.

[nelson9995]

I agree with Geoff. Being gay is not normal. Being gay is not okay either but if they want to do what they do I am noone to stop them or tell them they are wrong. It is my belief and I express it if I want without any consequences.

[geoff]

Nelson9995: you are allowed to have that opinion as long as it doesn't infringe on their beliefs.

[Vteckidd]

God gives us free will to choose how to live our lives. Most outside of the gay community consider this choice or lifestyle a perversion. No straight person would consider a man giving another man a rim job, blow job, ect..."a beautiful act of nature". It's simple fact that the rectum was not meant to be stretched and used for a penis to plow in. Therefore, it's natural use has been perverted. My problem with the gay community is not that they wish to be gay, it's that they wish for their ways to be the norm.

Quoted for LOL

I dont think its a perversion, i think you love who you love. No one knows if its genetic, inherited, a choice, etc. There is evidence everywhere supporting every ones point of view. I tend to think its a little bit of everything. In some cases its personal choice, in others its genetic. I can speak on personal experience for both.

There was a kid on my swim team in High School that everyone KNEW he would eventually come out as gay. I mean theres was no doubt. he had brothers that were :normal: but he was different. Feminine tendencies, talked with a lisp, hung out with girls, i mean there were so many signs, kid was 14. WHY? I dont think thats a CHOICE, i think something in his genetics predisposed him to be that way, and his brothers werent like that.

I also have known people that just said you know what, im attracted to girls, or guys. It was just a much simpler choice.

I dont think about gay consenual sex as being "BEAUTIFUL" anymore than i want to imagine my mom and dad having sex ..............ewwww. What happens behind closed doors, happens.

I dont think 2 dudes going at it is attractive at all, but 2 chicks, HELLO! LOL Thats because im attracted to women. I find their bodies sexy and attractice. I dont think dudes are good looking.

Besides all of that, whatever your GOD teaches you and you follow , isnt the same for others. YOure trying to push your beliefs saying "its not natural" on the gay population, when the gays are saying "WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE".

You guys are in essence making the same argument, that is what is so funny.

[geoff]

Also, I have read up on comments that the gay community has made on these issues. They claim it's ok for these private organizations to voice their opinion, yet call them bigots and hateful. They also don't like how chick fil a donates money to "traditional family/marriage" groups and other organizations that oppose the gay agenda. Since when does ANYBODY have a right to say where someone can give charity? The BSA do not approve of gays in there ranks for a simple reason, no sexual activity is allowed on trips. You put a group of gay curious youth together and they are bound to experiment. They also don't approve of gay leaders for the same reason you don't see men leading girl scout troops. It has nothing to do with discrimination.

Also, incest is illegal, but why? I have mentioned before that there are ways to stop reproduction in incestual relationships therefore tossing out the issue of genetically screwed offspring. But what about this, say gay marriage is allowed, would we then allow incestual homosex between two brothers or sisters? After all, no gay couple can reproduce, so why deny the incestual ones marriage rights? The issue here is to draw a line somewhere. Gays are not persecuted in this country unlike in many others where it is a crime punishable by death. They have every freedom every single individual in this country has. So leave it at that, before we as a nation completely lose all sense of tradition and morality. Next thing you know, the president of the United States will be Jane Doe, that used to be John, who's first man is his brother Steve, whom enjoy f@cking sheep on the side.

Also, let's say that some how sexual orientation is found in genes, and that we could tell before birth if a child was going to be gay or not. Would we then outlaw abortion to parents that dont want gay children? Would it then be considered murder or a hate crime? We allow certain "rights" and all it does is send us down a rabbit hole and open up a can of worms.

[geoff]

Vteckidd: my friend, natures way of showing what is natural and perversion is the ability to reproduce. Atheist or Theist, we all no it to be true. Evolutionists would argue that a "homosexual gene" is not beneficial nor productive in any way shape or form. After all, the strong survive and pass on there traits. Homosexuals would have been phased out in the very beginning. And there is NO evidence what so ever to suggest that sexual orientation is genetic. As far as the guy you mentioned in your example, how do you know what his home life was like? I have two homosexual friends one a lesbian one gay. The guy Jayce was molested by his uncle for years, he grew up thinking it was normal, he now finds himself attracted to men. My lesbian friend Jackie was molested by her father, she now finds all men disgusting. Both these cases are examples of environmental influence. I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone. Marriage has ALWAYS been between men and women regardless of religious alliance. The gays come in and want to redefine it. How about this, we as a nation extend benefits to gay couples that have been together 5 years or more and have had a civil union. But they are not given a marriage license. Would that satisfy them? Are they after the equality to share the same benefits as a married couple(tax breaks, insurance benefits, ect) or are they poised at changing the way we as heterosexuals think?

[.blank cd]

This is why I cant take any of your arguments seriously. You dont make any sense and you spew what the the rest of your christian conservatives tell you to.

"If you put two gay kids on a bus, they're bound to experiment"

Are you serious right now? Are you saying all gay people lack self control or where are you going with that?

Are you a troll or what? I can kinda believe some christians are a little mis-informed, but not blatantly clueless

Scientific evidence is not on your side, Geoff. Only biblical conjecture. Homosexuality is normal. It is manifested in many species of animals. Is it common? No

[.blank cd]

And the fact that you say there's no scientific evidence to support genetic influence shows how completely ignorant you are

[bu villain]

The whole idea of Boys Scouts is already pretty gay.

As far as Chick Fil-A goes. Both sides are exercising their rights to free speech. Chick Fil-A can support groups fighting against gay marriage and gay proponents can say they think Chick Fil-A are hatemongers and boycott them. I see no problems with either side expressing their views even if I don't agree with them.

[geoff]

Blank: I don't need to believe in God to know two men sticking eachother in the butt is wrong. Many things happen in nature; murder, theft, incest, cannabilsm, ect.... Does not make it normal or ok. Please show me one shred of evidence that supports sexual orientation being genetic. I want a case study that clearly shows this, not an interpretation of what an outcome could mean.

[.blank cd]

Blank: I don't need to believe in God to know two men sticking eachother in the butt is wrong. Many things happen in nature; murder, theft, incest, cannabilsm, ect.... Does not make it normal or ok. Please show me one shred of evidence that supports sexual orientation being genetic. I want a case study that clearly shows this, not an interpretation of what an outcome could mean.

Your definition of normal and a scientific definition of normal are two different things. There are case studies that are linking genetic influences all over the damn place. You can't dismiss them because it's not a solid link, but it's enough of a step in that direction to consider it a plausible factor.

Stay away from the anti-reality-Christian-science science blogs and you'll find it.

[nelson9995]

Your definition of normal and a scientific definition of normal are two different things. There are case studies that are linking genetic influences all over the damn place. You can't dismiss them because it's not a solid link, but it's enough of a step in that direction to consider it a plausible factor.

Stay away from the anti-reality-Christian-science science blogs and you'll find it.

I know you wouldn't tell your 20 year old son to be gay and have sex with a guy, but you would tell your son to have sex with girls, or at least it'd be okay with you. That's enough evidence to show that it is not normal.
and
If you say that yes you would, I don't believe you.

[.blank cd]

I know you wouldn't tell your 20 year old son to be gay and have sex with a guy, but you would tell your son to have sex with girls, or at least it'd be okay with you. That's enough evidence to show that it is not normal.
and
If you say that yes you would, I don't believe you.

I would tell my son or my daughter that whoever they love is completely ok with me, provided it was a completely consensual loving relationship.

[geoff]

I've read of the studies of the pioneers behind the study of sexual orientation, there has never been any solid evidence to suggest sexual orientation is in the genes. There are speculations that it could be, but as a student of science you know that facts are what matter, not speculation. Show me evidence that clearly shows I'm wrong and I will conseed.

[nelson9995]

I would tell my son or my daughter that whoever they love is completely ok with me, provided it was a completely consensual loving relationship.

at that point you have no choice but to accept it. If they are gay they will be gay whether you like it or not. Would you tell your son damn look at that guy, like you would tell him damn look at that girl?

[.blank cd]

I've read of the studies of the pioneers behind the study of sexual orientation, there has never been any solid evidence to suggest sexual orientation is in the genes. There are speculations that it could be, but as a student of science you know that facts are what matter, not speculation. Show me evidence that clearly shows I'm wrong and I will conseed.

You are looking for something that hasn't been found yet and dismissing it as fallacy. There was no solid explanation for gravity, but it still worked until the current theory was developed. What we have are studies and scientific theories (this means explanations, not guesses)

Nelson, to finish what I was saying is that it is psychologically damaging to persuade someone otherwise, that it's not ok to be human, and to suppress natural human emotion. That is the problem I have with religion. Their ethos is full of suppression of natural human emotions, no matter how uncommon they are. Homosexuality, in this case, is a natural human emotion, it may be uncommon, it may not be appealing to some, but it doesn't exclude it from being natural.

[.blank cd]

at that point you have no choice but to accept it. If they are gay they will be gay whether you like it or not. Would you tell your son damn look at that guy, like you would tell him damn look at that girl?

I have no problem pointing out attractive physical features in men. I'm getting married to an attractive woman, and I fuck her brains out constantly. I'm not bothered by some people's perception of homosexuality, because I understand it better than most, and I'm above the negativity.

[geoff]

Blank: it's funny how when one presents the same argument for the existence of God, you and your kind dismiss it as irrelevant because a lack of tangible evidence. Yet, you use it to support your beliefs. Hypocritical? There is ZERO evidence to your claim, no tangible evidence whatsoever. Sure a couple scientists, who happen to be homosexuals themselves, have theories that sexual orientation is in the genes. Well no sh*t they would theorize that. What better way to gain support for gay agenda then to say, " being gay is no more of a choice then being black". The funny thing is, color is genetic and the evidence is tangible and irrefutable. Show me the same evidence that sexual orientation is found in the DNA. It's just a wild goose chase. How about this one, show me generic evidence that supports those who have gender confusion and can't help but mutilate themselves because "I was supposed to be born a man/woman".

So according to your beliefs of consent in relationships, what would you say if you had two sons that were in love with eachother and wanted your blessing to be together, or a son that enjoys porking his sister and she likes it too; but it's ok cuz he had a vasectomy and she's on birth control. You sir are twisted and only add to the down fall of moral fiber.

[.blank cd]

Blank: it's funny how when one presents the same argument for the existence of God, you and your kind dismiss it as irrelevant because a lack of tangible evidence.

Yes, we're still talking about tangible evidence versus intangible evidence not based in reality whatsoever.

Yet, you use it to support your beliefs. Hypocritical? There is ZERO evidence to your claim, no tangible evidence whatsoever. Sure a couple scientists, who happen to be homosexuals themselves,

Once again, another ignorant comment from you

have theories that sexual orientation is in the genes. Well no sh*t they would theorize that. What better way to gain support for gay agenda then to say, " being gay is no more of a choice then being black". The funny thing is, color is genetic and the evidence is tangible and irrefutable.

ANOTHER ignorant comment from you. Wanna know something funny? There was a day when there was zero evidence that black skin was genetic. Wanna know the popular opinion at the time? Blacks were inferior people, and people also used the bible to discriminate against them. Guess what happened? Science worked on the answer and proved people differently. Your ignorance on the issue is astounding, but I wouldn't expect less from an evangelical. Why don't you leave the psychology for the psychologists, and stick to what you do best: preaching the dribble that is your version of the bible

So according to your beliefs of consent in relationships, what would you say if you had two sons that were in love with eachother and wanted your blessing to be together, or a son that enjoys porking his sister and she likes it too; but it's ok cuz he had a vasectomy and she's on birth control. You sir are twisted and only add to the down fall of moral fiber.

As a spin artist, you never disappoint. Like I said. Just because you believe it's wrong, doesn't mean it's wrong.

[geoff]

Blank: you call me ignorant as if I'm missing some kind of well known fact. I am not ignorant to these studies that have been conducted. Show me an ounce of proof that refutable shows sexual orientation is genetic. You keep making references to things that we previously could not explain scientifically (skin color and gravity). What you are really saying is that there is no scientific proof for it but it's ok, because maybe some day there will be. Kinda like how Christians believe science cannot disprove God therefore you cant assume He isn't real. Ironic no? Fact, as of this day there is no proof that someone is born gay. That does not mean you can just assume that it might be true. Isn't that what you atheists believe?

You sir are a puppet that swings from the liberal sack. You deny anything that goes against your views, dismiss any opinion against yours as bigotry, and purposely dodge challenges to your beliefs. You sir have challenged my beliefs many times, and I never fail to represent my beliefs with a sound argument with facts, history, ect...you on the other hand simply insult me and say" nuh uh that's not how it is, you're wrong". But you don't actually make any kind of intelligent rebutall. So instead of wasting time and trying to have an intelligent debate with you, I will use your own tactics against you. But I will not sink completely to your level, first I will complement you, you seem to have a strong stance on your views and beliefs which is admirable. Now, I will insult you, you sir are a dumb fuck liberal who is blind, deaf, and dumb. You have not the slightest shroud of intelligence in anything you say and I would wager that I might get more of a sound argument from an 8 year old.

[Sinfix_15]

Blank: you call me ignorant as if I'm missing some kind of well known fact. I am not ignorant to these studies that have been conducted. Show me an ounce of proof that refutable shows sexual orientation is genetic. You keep making references to things that we previously could not explain scientifically (skin color and gravity). What you are really saying is that there is no scientific proof for it but it's ok, because maybe some day there will be. Kinda like how Christians believe science cannot disprove God therefore you cant assume He isn't real. Ironic no? Fact, as of this day there is no proof that someone is born gay. That does not mean you can just assume that it might be true. Isn't that what you atheists believe?

You sir are a puppet that swings from the liberal sack. You deny anything that goes against your views, dismiss any opinion against yours as bigotry, and purposely dodge challenges to your beliefs. You sir have challenged my beliefs many times, and I never fail to represent my beliefs with a sound argument with facts, history, ect...you on the other hand simply insult me and say" nuh uh that's not how it is, you're wrong". But you don't actually make any kind of intelligent rebutall. So instead of wasting time and trying to have an intelligent debate with you, I will use your own tactics against you. But I will not sink completely to your level, first I will complement you, you seem to have a strong stance on your views and beliefs which is admirable. Now, I will insult you, you sir are a dumb fuck liberal who is blind, deaf, and dumb. You have not the slightest shroud of intelligence in anything you say and I would wager that I might get more of a sound argument from an 8 year old.

I agree with blank on a lot of religion/science topics..... but he's so far left he probably thinks the government should wipe his ass for him and tuck him in to sleep at night.

[.blank cd]

Blank: you call me ignorant as if I'm missing some kind of well known fact. I am not ignorant to these studies that have been conducted. Show me an ounce of proof that refutable shows sexual orientation is genetic. You keep making references to things that we previously could not explain scientifically (skin color and gravity).

Yes, thats exactly what I meant to do. Just because we havent found the answer doesnt mean its not there. The overwhelming evidence says that we cant dismiss homosexuality as solely an environmental influence.

Read this, but I dont expect you to make it past the first paragraph before you dispel it as leftist gay researcher agenda BS

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What you are really saying is that there is no scientific proof for it but it's ok, because maybe some day there will be. Kinda like how Christians believe science cannot disprove God therefore you cant assume He isn't real. Ironic no? Fact, as of this day there is no proof that someone is born gay. That does not mean you can just assume that it might be true. Isn't that what you atheists believe?

Scientists have never tried to disprove "God". This is impossible as you cannot disprove something that does not yet exist within the current laws of physics. You cant hold out your empty hand and tell me to prove theres not a pink leprechaun in it. Science searches for an answer theists think they already know, and day after day they get more and more upset when it turns out that "God" isnt the answer for it.

You sir are a puppet that swings from the liberal sack. You deny anything that goes against your views, dismiss any opinion against yours as bigotry, and purposely dodge challenges to your beliefs.

No, I deny and dismiss things that aren't based in reality and classify actions to hate and restrict other peoples freedoms based on this alternate reality as bigotry. Defined as the state of mind of one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance. If there is a completely secular reason gay people should not get married, a reason not based on ANYONES religion, Im all ears. But theres not, and there never will be.

You use 'liberal' like you think its a pejorative.

[.blank cd]

I agree with blank on a lot of religion/science topics..... but he's so far left he probably thinks the government should wipe his ass for him and tuck him in to sleep at night.

Why the fuck not? Why should I wipe my own ass and go to sleep by myself? Thats boring

[geoff]

Blank: I will dismiss that article not because a gay biast opinion, I will dismiss it because you seriously tried to use Wikipedia as a legitimate source. You are using the same approach to the "gay gene" as most Christians use for the existence of God. You can't disprove it therefore it must exist. You can not use an argument that your kind automatically dismisses as insufficient to bring to the debate table. You see, you stated the current laws of physics show no evidence for a God. One, my God is not bound by our laws of physics as He alone established them. Two, I don't expect you to just believe or argue that since it can't be proven it must be real. I can give you clear examples of the scientific kind that suggest intent and design, that point to the existence of an almighty being that put forth all that we know. Yet you simply dismiss it because you choose not to believe. As far as the causes of homosexuality, I believe, and so do many students of science that sexual orientation is dependent on many factors, I.e. environment, choice, ect... The human mind is very influential and much more so a child's mind. Look at nazi Germany. One man some how managed to convince an entire nation of peopl and military that the Jews were to be wiped off the face of this earth, and that they were some how inferior.

Further, I don't hate gays. Dont agree with their lifestyle, I don't agree with their over exaggerated plea, I don't agree with them forcing those with opposing views to agree with them, condone their behavior, and applaud them for just taking a shot in the mouth. Their sexual life disgusts me. They wanna be gay, by all means go ahead and do so in the privacy of your own home. They have every human right that an individual in America is given. They want benefits, ok, every gay couple that has been together more than 5 years and has had a civil ceremony should recieve the same tax, insurance, ect benefits as a straight couple. But don't tarnish the tradition of marriage. Don't pollute our Tvs, schools, and society with your choice of sex. Don't parade down the street in assless chaps making out with other men. Don't wear a military uniform as you parade around in a gay pride parade and promote an agenda(which is illegal). Stop indoctrinating the youth that gay is the norm.

This group breaks the values and laws we are all to follow. Freedom of speech, not for those that disagree with GLBT or else it's bigotry and hatred. Freedom to assemble and protest, unless against the gays cuz that's discrimination. Dressing in uniform while supporting the GLBT community when it is prohibited for any member of the military to be in uniform during any public support of any agenda. There are no heterosexual pride parades where straights all but f@ck eachother while walking down the street. They are perverse, they are forceful of their agenda, and they are corrupting traditional American values.

So answer me, if you have a set of gay sons/daughters and they ask for your blessing to be together; what say you? What about trans gender, where is this genetically caused?

[geoff]

Also, you ever hear of NAMBLA? The GLBT community was once a big supporter of this but has recently rejected them so they are not politically damaged. After all, having a group of pedophile lovers is not good for the GLBT image. Funny how the NAMBLA now cries discrimination because they have been dropped from the "movement".

Let's imagine a liberal utopia where no one has to work because the govt provides every basic need, all things are legal as long as it doesn't "harm" anyone, and every religious/spiritual belief is banned. Sounds like your ideal world?

[Sinfix_15]

Further, I don't hate gays. Dont agree with their lifestyle, I don't agree with their over exaggerated plea, I don't agree with them forcing those with opposing views to agree with them, condone their behavior, and applaud them for just taking a shot in the mouth. Their sexual life disgusts me. They wanna be gay, by all means go ahead and do so in the privacy of your own home. They have every human right that an individual in America is given. They want benefits, ok, every gay couple that has been together more than 5 years and has had a civil ceremony should recieve the same tax, insurance, ect benefits as a straight couple. But don't tarnish the tradition of marriage. Don't pollute our Tvs, schools, and society with your choice of sex. Don't parade down the street in assless chaps making out with other men. Don't wear a military uniform as you parade around in a gay pride parade and promote an agenda(which is illegal). Stop indoctrinating the youth that gay is the norm.

lol excellent choice of words.

[quickdodge®]

The same thing I always say about racism and the "why can't whites do this" or "why can blacks have that" crap I can say here, too.

Who cares? Why bother yourself about what other people feel when it doesn't concern you? Seems some people either live perfect, stress-free lives to where they have time to be bothered by frivolous, petty "issues" or they just feel they don't already have enough on their plates. What does someone being gay have to do with you? If you're scared, say so. Do I think being gay is right? My answer is it doesn't matter. I am me and I control only me. If a dude, wants another dude, who am I to stop that or think less of that dude? That's not place.

Geoff, you seem to put yourself out there as a "know-it-all." Coming from an actual "know-it-all," I can say you're not. I know I keep reminding you that knowing something and believing something are two completely different things. And there is not a thing wrong with you having your beliefs. I would be contradictory to myself if I said otherwise. Who are you to say that being gay is not normal? No one. Just like me. Maybe you don't like it and that's fine, but what's normal to you may not be normal for another. You again reaffirm yourself on here as a "Christian" person with your judgmental ways.

Bottom line that most people fail to see is "so what?!?!" I have bills to pay, a family to feed, clothe and house and a job to do to ensure this happens. I have enough on my plate to keep me going without having to inject more into my life that has nothing to do with me or my life. Later, QD.

[David88vert]

blank cd, no gene has been discovered in the mapping of DNA that is related to sexual orientation, and currently, it is not expected to be discovered. Hamer's "discovery" was found to be incorrect and misguided at best. Xq28 is not a "gay" gene.

Being gay is a choice. It is legally allowable, but marriage licenses are regulated by the state, and currently in the state of Georgia, gay marriage is not recognized as a legal union. Those are the facts whether you like them or not.

The issue is that the gay community attempt to push their minority agenda onto the majority of Americans. They want the schools to teach that being gay is normal, when the majority of Americans do not want their kids to be taught that in school. The gay community is not just asking for marriage rights, they are pushing against the beliefs of Americans who do not have the same opinion as them. Don't expect people to just say ok when you go against their beliefs.

[quickdodge®]

Being gay is a choice.

I can't agree or disagree. I agree in a way because I do think that some people do choose to be that way. But I can't affirm or deny that genetics make up any part of a decision because I don't know.

Don't expect people to just say ok when you go against their beliefs.

That's part of the problem, David. If someone doesn't like something, instead of moving past it, they want to confront it. If I don't like something, I tend to move on to something I do like. Not complicate my life with things I don't. If gay people want to get married, let them. Who is it harming? Later, QD.

[.blank cd]

Blank: I will dismiss that article not because a gay biast opinion, I will dismiss it because you seriously tried to use Wikipedia as a legitimate source.

Wikipedia cites all of its sources, especially when it comes to case studies. It is a legitimate source of information. Wheres the bibliography on the bible? I'd really like to see its sources...

You are using the same approach to the "gay gene" as most Christians use for the existence of God. You can't disprove it therefore it must exist. You can not use an argument that your kind automatically dismisses as insufficient to bring to the debate table.

Disproving the existence of something that doesnt exist is a logical fallacy.

You see, you stated the current laws of physics show no evidence for a God. One, my God is not bound by our laws of physics as He alone established them. Two, I don't expect you to just believe or argue that since it can't be proven it must be real. I can give you clear examples of the scientific kind that suggest intent and design, that point to the existence of an almighty being that put forth all that we know. Yet you simply dismiss it because you choose not to believe.

Even if there were evidence for some kind of divine creator, it doesnt mean its the Abrahamic God of the bible.

As far as the causes of homosexuality, I believe, and so do many students of science that sexual orientation is dependent on many factors, I.e. environment, choice, ect... The human mind is very influential and much more so a child's mind. Look at nazi Germany. One man some how managed to convince an entire nation of peopl and military that the Jews were to be wiped off the face of this earth, and that they were some how inferior.

Now you're getting it! Environmental influences lead up to choice, but there are other factors such as genetics and hormones that have been studied which lead up to it not being a choice.

This is what your next paragraph would sound like had this been before it was accepted and made legal....

Further, I don't hate BLACKS. Dont agree with their lifestyle, I don't agree with their over exaggerated plea, I don't agree with them forcing those with opposing views to agree with them, condone their behavior, and applaud them for just taking a shot in the mouth. Their BLACK life disgusts me. They wanna be BLACK, by all means go ahead and do so in the privacy of your own home. They have every human right that an individual in America is given. They want benefits, ok, every BLACK, BLACK/WHITE couple that has been together more than 5 years and has had a civil ceremony should recieve the same tax, insurance, ect benefits as a straight couple. But don't tarnish the tradition of marriage. Don't pollute our Tvs, schools, and society with your choice of COLOR. Don't parade down the street EATING FRIED CHICKEN. Don't wear a DASHIKI as you parade around in a BLACK pride parade and promote an agenda(which is illegal). Stop indoctrinating the youth that BLACK is the norm.

You change one term and immediately you sound like an ignorant racist.

This group breaks the values and laws we are all to follow. Freedom of speech, not for those that disagree with GLBT or else it's bigotry and hatred. Freedom to assemble and protest, unless against the gays cuz that's discrimination. Dressing in uniform while supporting the GLBT community when it is prohibited for any member of the military to be in uniform during any public support of any agenda. There are no heterosexual pride parades where straights all but f@ck eachother while walking down the street. They are perverse, they are forceful of their agenda, and they are corrupting traditional American values.

Corrupting traditional American values huh? LOL. You pick homosexuality as the bane of traditional American values? Your worldview is as narrow as the pages of the book you base it on.

If you disagree with being gay, thats fine. Thats what you have selectively picked out of the bible out of context to crusade against. Guess what, no one is forcing you to be gay, and no one will ever force you to be gay. Ever. Pushing their agenda would be trying to make you be gay. If you want to hate gays, thats fine, do it within your own home, within your own church. Dont push your hateful agenda and indoctrinate the youth that hating gays is the norm.

So answer me, if you have a set of gay sons/daughters and they ask for your blessing to be together; what say you? What about trans gender, where is this genetically caused?

The reason I didnt answer this question the first time is because you lack the cognitive ability to separate fact from beliefs.

Also, you ever hear of NAMBLA? The GLBT community was once a big supporter of this but has recently rejected them so they are not politically damaged. After all, having a group of pedophile lovers is not good for the GLBT image. Funny how the NAMBLA now cries discrimination because they have been dropped from the "movement".

Why do evangelicals always use unhealthy sexual relationships between adults and children as their reason to hate gay lifestyle? Older men have sex with underage girls all the time, do we ban heterosexual relationships? While we're on the subject, historically the age of consent has been all over the place. What was once a normal relationship/marriage would be considered pedophilia today. Where do you draw the line and why?

blank cd, no gene has been discovered in the mapping of DNA that is related to sexual orientation, and currently, it is not expected to be discovered. Hamer's "discovery" was found to be incorrect and misguided at best. Xq28 is not a "gay" gene.

Being gay is a choice. It is legally allowable, but marriage licenses are regulated by the state, and currently in the state of Georgia, gay marriage is not recognized as a legal union. Those are the facts whether you like them or not.

The issue is that the gay community attempt to push their minority agenda onto the majority of Americans. They want the schools to teach that being gay is normal, when the majority of Americans do not want their kids to be taught that in school. The gay community is not just asking for marriage rights, they are pushing against the beliefs of Americans who do not have the same opinion as them. Don't expect people to just say ok when you go against their beliefs.

Sorry, the overwhelming scientific opinion would not agree with you on it being a choice. Too much evidence that points in the other direction. If homosexuality was a choice, then it wouldnt be expressed in animals without the cognitive ability for choice and reason, but it is. The xq28 study is not the only study to have been performed, and I dont think you understand what a scientific dispute actually means. Its saying that the answer to the question is not this particular answer, not that the question is dismissed. EVEN IF it was a choice, who are you to say its wrong? I'm pretty sure its your CHOICE to own a gun....

Read your last paragraph again. Change ONE term and listen to how it sounds...

The issue is that the BLACK community attempt to push their minority agenda onto the majority of Americans. They want the schools to teach that being BLACK is normal, when the majority of Americans do not want their kids to be taught that in school. The BLACK community is not just asking for marriage rights, they are pushing against the beliefs of Americans who do not have the same opinion as them. Don't expect people to just say ok when you go against their beliefs.

This was EXACTLY what was said back in the 50s when people thought black people were inferior. Intolerance to gays is actually the minority opinion.

[Vteckidd]

I would say the last few years the dominating trend has been in favor of Gay Marriage
Public opinion of same-sex marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most polls nationwide are in favor of some form of legalizing gay marriage. I wouldnt classify it as normal in terms that normal sexual activity from all beings is usually male and female. Species of the same sex do have sexual activity with each other, and theres records of that going back to the beginning of time.

I would disagree with Blanks notion that it is the same as Racism. Sexual orientation is not the same as racial injustice. No one is refusing gay people any rights(they can still get married in several states). No one is forcing them to sit at the back of the bus, drink from different water fountain, etc.

[.blank cd]

I would disagree with Blanks notion that it is the same as Racism. Sexual orientation is not the same as racial injustice. No one is refusing gay people any rights(they can still get married in several states). No one is forcing them to sit at the back of the bus, drink from different water fountain, etc.

It's an injustice on a different level. Sure some states allow it and that's great. It needs to be all 50. I think we're one of the only countries in the civilized world that outlaws it, and thats pretty sad seeing as that we're also one of the most advanced. The violent oppression in the mid 20th century wont happen again. What were seeing though is the same kind of ideological divide.

[eraser4g63]

Why does it matter what chick-fil-a or the boy scouts thinks of you? They are privately owned companies and are allowed to have opinions, get off your cross and get the f*ck over it. If you don't like it don't eat there, same reason I don't eat at tacomac they are anti-gun.

[geoff]

QD: man for someone with better/more important things to do, you sure spend a lot of time on these forums. Lol sorry man had to point out the obvious. It's not that it personally effects me. I have two gay friends that are cool people. It becomes my issue when it is forced down my throat, no pun intended. They push homosexual support in the schools under the guise of anti-bullying ( the GLBT community does not deny it). They cry discrimination and inequality yet when someone like BSA or chick fil a voices their opinion, they jump all over it screaming bigotry and hate. You don't see atheists protesting chick fil a or BSA because they are Christian organizations do you? Gays are given every right that an individual in the USA is entitled to under the constitution. So they can do as they wish behind closed doors. Stop forcing Americans to accept and support your lifestyle. Hope that makes sense.

Blank: your argument of science is now null and void as you can not show me any evidence that supports your claim. You also failed to answer my question as to the transgendered. Are you really trying to support the NAMBLA agenda? If so you are more messed up than I previously thought. Yes it happens in heterosexuals as well, but we don't have a movement trying to abolish age of consent laws so we can f@ck preteens. I for one believe in compromise, what about the scenario I stated about gay couples being entitled to rights just no marriage license? Please stop trying to compare the civil rights movement to the gay agenda, they are no where near the same.

[.blank cd]

^ I dont think they all are.

[.blank cd]

Blank: your argument of science is now null and void as you can not show me any evidence that supports your claim.

Coming from someone who knows absolutely nothing about science, I'll take that as a compliment. I showed you the case studies, you chose not to read them because they're compiled on Wikipedia. Truly simple minded you are.

Please stop trying to compare the civil rights movement to the gay agenda, they are no where near the same.

They are pretty much exactly the same as I pointed out. Sorry you are that far from reality that you don't see the similarities.

[Sinfix_15]

It's an injustice on a different level. Sure some states allow it and that's great. It needs to be all 50. I think we're one of the only countries in the civilized world that outlaws it, and thats pretty sad seeing as that we're also one of the most advanced. The violent oppression in the mid 20th century wont happen again. What were seeing though is the same kind of ideological divide.

Blank: your argument of science is now null and void as you can not show me any evidence that supports your claim. You also failed to answer my question as to the transgendered. Are you really trying to support the NAMBLA agenda? If so you are more messed up than I previously thought. Yes it happens in heterosexuals as well, but we don't have a movement trying to abolish age of consent laws so we can f@ck preteens. I for one believe in compromise, what about the scenario I stated about gay couples being entitled to rights just no marriage license? Please stop trying to compare the civil rights movement to the gay agenda, they are no where near the same.

Agree with this. Civil rights movement has absolutely nothing in common with gay agenda. Unlike black people in the past, gay people do have every other right that everyone else already has. "but, they cant get married?" yes they can, to an opposing gender, just like everyone else has the right to do. Marriage is defined as a union of man and woman, they are seeking to redefine the meaning of this tradition. Theyre not asking for the same legal rights and benefits of married couples, they want to redefine the meaning. It would be the same as atheist trying to legally get the name of christmas changed to xmas. We know what christmas is, we understand the meaning behind it and christmas being a national holiday isnt discrimination against nonreligious people, it's religious people enjoying a celebration. If youre not religious and wish not to participate in it, dont. Gay people, you know what marriage is, if you dont like it, dont participate. If you want to seek similar benefits of marriage union, by all means.... you have my blessing