Obamacare Upheld
Now the govt can force you to buy anything they want.
As soon as this takes effect I am canceling my insurance coverage. I will pay the fine and if I ever have an emergency, I will just start a policy and stick them with the bills.
Private insurance will be nearly dead by the '16 elections.
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Where was all the bitchin when car insurance was mandated? Lol.
Good riddance to private insurance.
Name a single state where car insurance is mandated.Originally Posted by .blank cd
That stupid car insurance thing has been so throughly debunked its not even laughable anymore.
Now everyone can partake is mediocre to poor health care. Except the rich who will simply pay cash.
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Wow.. Sad..
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I'm for it. I've considered moving to Canada for this reason, and a few others. The crazy thing is, that they do better than us.
Jimmy- Cancel you car insurance, and get pulled over and we will see what happens. So yes, it may not be directly mandated, but indirectly, it is.
By what measure do they do better?
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do you know anyone from Canada? because i dont think ive ever heard anyone say they were "doing better".
Free isnt always a good thing. I gladly pay money to sit down and eat at olive garden.... when i could go to a soup kitchen and eat for free. Obama is making everyone eat at the soup kitchen.......
Maybe not in the amount of money moved... But, their economy is much more stable.
No he is not. He is helpin those that can't afford to eat, eat at a soup kitchen. The ones that can already afford steak, will keep eating steak.
Jimmy- Cancel you car insurance, and get pulled over and we will see what happens. So yes, it may not be directly mandated, but indirectly, it is.
We are talking about the quality of health care though not the economy.
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Debunked? Have you driven through GA without car insurance lately?
Glad that you have faith in your government to make decisions for you. I'd feel better about letting a crack head hold my car keys than trusting the government to take care of me.
Good god. Ridiculous argument is ridiculous, and old. You have a choice not to drive a car on a public road, you don't have a choice not to live. Well I guess you do if you just really don't want to pay the tax and you just feel like offing yourself.
So the individual mandate is allowed to stand as a tax best I can tell from all the commotion so far. Didn't Obamacare originate in the Senate, and don't all tax bills have to originate in the House? So is this now a tax that originated in the Senate?
Yes I have driven and I do have insurance.
I made the choice to own a vehicle though. If I decided to sell my vehicles I would no longer be forced to have car insurance.
My brother in law does not own a personal vehicle so doesnt pay car insurance. He drives every day in a company owned vehicle though.
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So how do you guys think it's bad? why would quality decrease?
The way I see it, now ALL COMPANIES have to offer insurance which is a good thing.
We will have the same doctors, same schools, etc... so I don't understand why it would decrease.
And no, doctors will not quit or stop going to school.
So if you don't want to pay insurance, Kill yourself. It's the equivalent of needing a car to survive in areas where there is no public trans. like where I live for example, and not having one.
You won't be forced to have it if you are dead.
I see why you like this now. How could I possibly compete with this quality argument?
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I didn't meant it to offend you, or literally telling you to kill yourself man. It was just an example. I could have worded it better.
Why not create something for people that can't afford health insurance? Oh wait they have, so why try to regulate individual policies or companies?
You think we are in debt now, wait until all the people cancel their policies and buy a Goverment plan.
I'll be one of those... Oh wait, NVM I can't because even though I'm full time, make good money it's a good job and all, I don't have insurance because it is not offered to me.
There are times when I need to go for something I consider serious, and I don't because I can't afford to throw another bill on me, and on top of that, be overcharged for it.
Think of the hospitals that every year lose millions in unpaid bills. Now they will get their money.
So you don't have health insurance because your employer doesn't offer it? Last time I checked you can purchase insurance as an individual.
Freedom:
The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.
Absence of subjection to foreign domination or despotic government.
My lifetime's worth of medical bills would be less than $2000. I've paid cash for all of my ER visits. Why should i be forced to buy health insurance? The only answer..... to pay for everyone else. To pay for everyone's grandmother to go to the doctor 3 times a month, to pay for the guy who needs a knee replacement..... That's the only way something like this is affordable, if the people who dont use it have to pay for the people who use it a lot. I'd prefer to just take care of myself and let others do the same.
Is it the right thing to do? maybe... probably. Freedom doesnt mean the freedom to make only the decision you would make or to make the "right" decision. Bottom line is, i dont want the government making choices for me, i dont care if they make the right one or not. The largest bill i pay is taxes. My taxes are higher than any other living expense i have. I dont want to pay them to tell me how to live my life. How can you have one ounce of confidence in these idiots? They spend trillions of dollars and somewhere, in some office, there's government workers sitting around a table trying to decide if banning large drinks from mcdonalds is a good idea or a bad idea.......
we need to take power away from these morons, not continue to put our lives in their hands. The government should work for the people, not the other way around. you know who knows what the best healthcare for you is??? you. You know who knows what the best healthcare for me is? me.
Not the government.
You might as well not have anything. They suck, and cover little to nothing.
I agree with you on some things. I barely go to the hospital, but recently, I've had some serious migranes. I called the hospital, first thing they'll do is a MRI which costs $3000. I can't afford that right now. So I've just been sucking it up.
It's like having car insurance. How many times do you wreck? Not often. But it's good to have it for when you do, because if you wreck and don't have it, you know what happens next.
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What do you think gov't run healthcare is going to look like? Lollipops and rainbows?
Who's fault is it that you don't have health insurance so that you can go get your migraines taken care of? Mine? Sinfix? BanginJimmy? Your next door neighbor? None of the above, go look in the mirror.
The car insurance shtick is an asinine comparison.
It's like the elderly that use to bitch about SS. They would say Social Security would drive the country down,... DON"T DO IT! BLAH BLAH BLAH. Now that they are retired, go to their home and take the check away and let's see how they feel about it.
The ones bitching about it will always be the ones getting affected by it. if it was to help you you'd be for it. That's why this is a topic that NOONE will ever agree on if they are already in 2 diff. boats.
I will almost guarantee that those saying I don't need health insurance...... were to develop cancer... they would change their mind when they receive the bill, unless they have money to blow.
.....and they were right.
Believe it or not, there are people out there that believe wrong is wrong, whether it benefits them or not.
See how those people feel now? Ask any elderly that receives their check how they would feel if it was taken from them? You might get insulted lol.
But yeah, there are people that believe wrong is wrong no matter what. But, that number of people is very minimal, AND, it is not free. We are paying for it. We are getting taxed, and we would still pay a part of it.
I will comment further when I get home.
There are some simple facts to consider though.
1. Obamacare has no provisions that will bring costs down. Many that will cause costs to rise.
2. There is nothing in this that will keep quality at the same level it is now, several things that will cause quality to decrease.
3. Private insurance and employer insurance are dead as costs are going to skyrocket while revenue declines. It will be FAR cheaper for an individual to simply wait until they are sick to purchase a plan.
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The bottom line when power is of a man.. they will only do want they want.. government.. is about how many people can have your back.. what people are made about it is something they can't do anything about because the people have money,power and respect is the ones that run the world... and the people that are middle class bitch and get mad about things that they cant do anything about.. so sad.. they people are madd... when people cant do anything about it
Midnight Atl= Stretch Built, Morris Tuned= Some serious problems for people on the Streets and Track!
Good Work and Good People
You mean the check that barely pays for their living cost and expenses? You mean the check that still requires the elderly to work? You do know w/ SS it is getting to a point where it can not sustain itself without more taxation... Hence this healthcare bill, Additional taxation on all, and in and on multiple levels.
The ones bitching about it are the rich republicans who already have insurance, and the pseudo-republican-conservatives who vote party line no matter what, even when it hurts them because "'Murica fuck yea damn liberals". Anyone who does have half a brain won't give a shit because it will benefit them or it won't.
In countries with socialized healthcare, everyone raves about it and talks about how much America's healthcare system sucks, which it does. No one complains about wait times or quality of care because it's a non issue. Everyone gets the same quality of care, rich or poor. "Oh I dont wanna pay for someone else's grandmas healthcare because wah wah wah". Get over yourself or move to another country. I would gladly pay extra taxes so that myself and all my friends and family get healthcare.
I could not agree more. Took the words out my mouth.
Maybe I feel this way because I come from a country where you see what not having insurance does. In my country the rich do great, everyone else is struggling pretty bad. I personally see people dying all the time because they can't afford to go to a hospital. We have it easy in this country. We talk about how bad it is but in reality is not. Most of us can still afford to own a toy, go out every weekend, go on vacation, etc... Yet we still complain.
Well if that's the case, why can't people go out a buy their own damn health insurance instead of expecting someone else to pay for it? Oh, that's right, personal responsibility is frowned upon and sucking the gov't teat for all it's worth is rewarded.
Go buy your own damn health insurance then! Lol. People already aren't buying health insurance cause they don't have to, then getting saddled with ridiculous medical debt, then saying "fuck it, not paying it" because its prohibitive. What do you really think is causing health care costs to go up?
the Car Insurance argument is stupid , cmon guys.
Ok, first of all you have a right to choose to NOT purchase car insurance, just dont buy a car. You can go through your entire life without ever having car insurance if you dont buy a car. Period. Have you ever owned Plane insurance? Boat insurance? House insurance? Unless you own those things you arent required to have insurance for them.
Requiring people to have health insurance is forcing them to pay for something they have no way of refusing. You are ''taxing" them for simple being "alive".
The problem is that while you can choose NOT to own a car, you cant choose NOT to get cancer, or not break your leg playing basketball, or whatever.
The Individual Mandate is bad for everyone, its going to bring care quality standards down and drive premiums UP. Then, we will get to a point where Private insurance will disappear and we will go to Single Payer, at that point your taxes will be so high to pay for medical care it wont matter.
Healthcare is a SERVICE BUSINESS, thats what the democrats cant get through their head. The way to lower premiums is expand coverage, and make the premium holders into consumers by making hospitals compete for care. Why pay $10,000 for an MRI when you can pay $500? Health Savings accounts, catastrophic coverage, etc are all ways to solve the problem.
But Obama doesnt want to solve the problem, he wants Single Payer. this is a step toward that.
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Those other "SOCIALIZED COUNTRIES" dont have:
A) the population we have
B) the illegal immigration problem we have
C) some of those countries are in dire straits, financially.
You realize the "extra in taxes" you will have to pay is 3-5 TIMES THE DEFENSE BUDGET right? Right now the defense budget is 500 Billion dollars. Healthcare costs in 2009 were approaching 2 TRILLION DOLLARS. Figure out how much of your tax dollars go to Defense, and triple it, thats what you would have to pay to break even on healthcare costs.
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IF the individual mandate simply required everyone to have insurance from a private company, then you might see competition for cheaper plans. But , it basically says "if you cant afford it, you can buy it from the govt aka medicade" .
or you pay a 2.5% of income fine.
I just went to the doctor as ive been sick last 3 days. I have insurance but its not very good so usually colds and stuff i just go to CVC minute Clinics. Well i walked in an had strep throat, $116 dollars later i had antibiotics and walked out the door.
To be honest, id rather pay the $116 and be done than make an appt at my Dr office because i have to wait, make an appt, they always are late, then i have to see his Nurse, then the mid nurse, then i finally see the DR, etc.
Minute Clinic im in and out , so much more efficient. I dont go to the dr unless its something really really bad like I fractured my tibia (8 weeks ago :P)
So, get insurance that covers MAJOR problems like broken bones, sprains, tendon tears, surgery, etc. Any small things just pay cash and go to the Minute clinics.
Considering i paid $116 to go to the Dr. ONCE in the last 3 years for a cold vs paying $150 a month for the same insurance coverage................
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Wait a minute, you mean you were able to get your healthcare needs taken care of without going broke or making someone else pay for it? All you had to do is a little planning and use some common sense and you could do that? You must be one of those whiney rich republicans or something.
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