Obamacare Upheld

[Vteckidd]

My point is if you dont have insurance, MOST care is affordable in terms of colds, flu, scrapes, etc.

Insurance is REALLY needed for the big stuff like broken bones, surgery, appendix ruptures, etc. IMO you should get a plan that takes care of the big ticket items, leave the smaller stuff to out of pocket expenditures .

$116 for STREP THROAT AND MEDS!? THATS CHEAP!

I was paying $150/month for my old insurance and i maybe used it once.

[Vteckidd]

Minor illness exams

Services range from $79 - $89
Come to us for:

Allergy symptoms (2 years+)
Bronchitis / cough
Earache / ear infection
Flu-like symptoms
Mononucleosis (mono)
Motion sickness prevention
Sinus infection / congestion
Pink eye & styes
Sore throat / strep throat
Upper respiratory infection
Urinary tract / bladder infection (females 12 years+)

[BanginJimmy]

You might as well not have anything. They suck, and cover little to nothing.

You really are an idiot if you believe this. I know several people that purchase their own insurance and it has great coverage. I have family in the medical insurance business and they are expecting to roll out a massive rate increase next year.

It's like the elderly that use to bitch about SS. They would say Social Security would drive the country down,... DON"T DO IT! BLAH BLAH BLAH. Now that they are retired, go to their home and take the check away and let's see how they feel about it.

The people saying this were right. SS IS hurting the country because 4 generations of citizens ignored their retirement and just rely on SS to take care of them. The best possible thing we could do for SS is to transition to a privatized system and eventually phase it out. Look at Galveston Texas' system for a freat example. They opted out of SS when it was possible and set up a privatized system. Those people on the privatized system paid in less and get more out of it.

The ones bitching about it are the rich republicans who already have insurance, and the pseudo-republican-conservatives who vote party line no matter what, even when it hurts them because "'Murica fuck yea damn liberals". Anyone who does have half a brain won't give a shit because it will benefit them or it won't.

Typical banter from the clueless. The people with more than half a brain hate this because they see the obvious. Higher costs, lower quality, and in the end, single payer.

Heres a simple question for you. Say you have minimum coverage on your car. If the state starts coming down and mandating everyone carry collision coverage also, do you think your rates are going to come down? Next, they mandate that everyone who applies for insurance, no matter their driving record, must be approved. Will this also lower your insurance costs? This is exactly what Obamacare is.

In countries with socialized healthcare, everyone raves about it and talks about how much America's healthcare system sucks, which it does. No one complains about wait times or quality of care because it's a non issue. Everyone gets the same quality of care, rich or poor. "Oh I dont wanna pay for someone else's grandmas healthcare because wah wah wah". Get over yourself or move to another country. I would gladly pay extra taxes so that myself and all my friends and family get healthcare.

Really? 100% of the people in socialized countries love the healthcare? They enjoy waiting months for procedures you could have done the same day here?

I'm sure the people relying on a new hip are absolutely thrilled with the NHS.
Budget cuts force NHS hospitals to stop non-emergency surgery | Society | The Guardian

Go buy your own damn health insurance then! Lol. People already aren't buying health insurance cause they don't have to, then getting saddled with ridiculous medical debt, then saying "fuck it, not paying it" because its prohibitive. What do you really think is causing health care costs to go up?

I would make medicals bill principles unaffected by bankruptcy because you are right, people dont bother with health insurance because they are guaranteed care. Then again, this bill does nothing to change that. For the vast majority of people who fall into this category, they will simply do as I am going to do. Pay the tax every year and if I need an expensive procedure, purchase insurance then.

[Vteckidd]

Like it or not , Obamacare is forcing people to buy insurance or pay a tax/penalty.

How is that not going to affect the middle class/poor if you are going to force them to now purchase something and pay for it monthly?

[BanginJimmy]

Like it or not , Obamacare is forcing people to buy insurance or pay a tax/penalty.

Roberts changed the Govts defense for them and made it a tax. Has anyone ever heard of a judge changing the defenses defense cause it makes their life easier?

How is that not going to affect the middle class/poor if you are going to force them to now purchase something and pay for it monthly?

I have yet to hear anyone give even an inkling of an idea on how this is going to lower healthcare costs. The mandate in of itself WOULD lower costs to individuals, but any savings associated with higher membership are pissed away with mandated coverage.




Another question, what does this law do to employees 50-55? If I am running a business, they are out the door and I stick at 49 so I'm not covered by the mandate.

Need more employees to make your 5 piece widget? Start another business. 1 business makes the pieces then sells it to the other to assemble them. Now you have up to 98 employees without having to deal with the mandate. And you can go on from there until you get to the point that it makes more sense to outsource.

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If you do the math on it, it's really not that much more than you're already paying:

We know healthcare costs are more than the defense budget. We'll take the middle men out of the equation (insurance companies) and it deflates the costs a lot. End all unnecessary military conflict that doesn't immediately threaten domestic US territory (everything that's going on now), apply all of THAT money to healthcare, maybe 250 billion. Take about $30 in taxes each month from EVERY tax paying citizen, or make it progressive based on income, lets say youve got about 250 million of those, bump up the tax on cigarettes and alcohol, LEGALIZE, REGULATE, AND TAX WEED AND COCAINE and voila! Socialized medicine paid for, AND legal drugs. All rolled into one. 80% of the population is happier.

Like it or not , Obamacare is forcing people to buy insurance or pay a tax/penalty.

How is that not going to affect the middle class/poor if you are going to force them to now purchase something and pay for it monthly?

Subsidized for anyone between 133% and 400% of the poverty line. Medicaid for those under it. I'm middle class now, don't know where I'll stand on that line in 2 years, but Im fine with that.

[Browning151]

Another question, what does this law do to employees 50-55? If I am running a business, they are out the door and I stick at 49 so I'm not covered by the mandate.

Need more employees to make your 5 piece widget? Start another business. 1 business makes the pieces then sells it to the other to assemble them. Now you have up to 98 employees without having to deal with the mandate. And you can go on from there until you get to the point that it makes more sense to outsource.

Temp agencies? Might not be a bad time to get into that business.

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And you can go on from there until you get to the point that it makes more sense to outsource.

Thats the American way! Lol.

Never understood why this is the mantra of the same conservatives who always ask where the jobs are. Lol.

[BanginJimmy]

Thats the American way! Lol.

Never understood why this is the mantra of the same conservatives who always ask where the jobs are. Lol.

Thats the smart way. If it was cheaper to manufacture a product here than in Brazil, Brazilian companies would be manufacturing here instead of there.

[BanginJimmy]

If you do the math on it, it's really not that much more than you're already paying:

We know healthcare costs are more than the defense budget. We'll take the middle men out of the equation (insurance companies) and it deflates the costs a lot. End all unnecessary military conflict that doesn't immediately threaten domestic US territory (everything that's going on now), apply all of THAT money to healthcare, maybe 250 billion. Take about $30 in taxes each month from EVERY tax paying citizen, or make it progressive based on income, lets say youve got about 250 million of those, bump up the tax on cigarettes and alcohol, LEGALIZE, REGULATE, AND TAX WEED AND COCAINE and voila! Socialized medicine paid for, AND legal drugs. All rolled into one. 80% of the population is happier.

Accounting for all this, you still lose more than a trillion a year. You forget the added crime from people running around high on cocaine and crack.

You also didnt account for the added billions a year in fraud.

Subsidized for anyone between 133% and 400% of the poverty line. Medicaid for those under it. I'm middle class now, don't know where I'll stand on that line in 2 years, but Im fine with that.

So you mean if I am under 400% of the poverty line, someone else would pay for me to get health insurance? I am all for this. Oh wait, the govt one will still cost more than 2.5% of my income. Forget it, I will worry about insurance after I need it. They want to make the system easy to game, why shouldnt I game it?


BTW, is congress going to join this wonderful plan or are they going to hide from it like they do with most of the garbage they pass?

[Vteckidd]

If you do the math on it, it's really not that much more than you're already paying:

We know healthcare costs are more than the defense budget. We'll take the middle men out of the equation (insurance companies) and it deflates the costs a lot. End all unnecessary military conflict that doesn't immediately threaten domestic US territory (everything that's going on now), apply all of THAT money to healthcare, maybe 250 billion. Take about $30 in taxes each month from EVERY tax paying citizen, or make it progressive based on income, lets say youve got about 250 million of those, bump up the tax on cigarettes and alcohol, LEGALIZE, REGULATE, AND TAX WEED AND COCAINE and voila! Socialized medicine paid for, AND legal drugs. All rolled into one. 80% of the population is happier.

Name me 1 program that the govt has been able to run IN BUDGET and not grossly underfund.........

SS?
MC?
MCaide?

negative ghost rider. You and i both know the "savings from the war" arent savings, its money they will spend on something else. There isnt any money left thats the whole point.

Im with you on taxing the shit out of Weed and legalizing it, not on cocaine.


Taking the insurance companies out of the middle doesnt help anything, private companies are better at running the private sector (we will disagree on this in principle). Healthcare is a service based industry. You have to pay for care. Its not an entitlement. You arent entitled to healthcare. Once you accept that you can start fixing the problem.

Hospitals cost money
Doctors cost money
Equipment costs money
Ambulances cost money
Needles cost money
MRI cost money
Surgery costs money

There is nothing wrong with it being a FOR PROFIT business because it HAS to be. No other model works when you factor in our population, our illegal immigration problems, and our economy. You cant compare us to Sweden, or Canada.

Now that we agree its a for profit business because there is no other choice, you have to get the insurance companies to compete against each other for YOUR dollar. That means why pay $10,000 for an MRI when you can pay $500, why pay $90 for a doctor visit when you can pay $50. I paid $116 for a lady to swab my throat and give me penicillin an it took her 3 minutes to see me. Why do i need to go to a Dr to do that? A nurse does the same thing right?

Increase competition, lower prices, cap malpractice lawsuits, allow buying over state lines, and offer some form of catastrophic coverage for people who dont want full time health care.

Lets face it people arent going broke going to the Dr. for strep throat or bronchitis. They are going broke because of a broken leg or cancer. Why should i pay $150/month for something i might use ONCE a year or less? Let me pay for a plan that fits me and my needs. We do it with Auto Insurance? Why not Healthcare?

Does a 25 year old really need access to $150/month healthcare to treat a head cold? NO. He needs something for broken bones or surgery.

Im all for mandating minimum coverage provided by private insurance as long as it is tailored to fit the needs of the people that need it.

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You and i both know the "savings from the war" arent savings, its money they will spend on something else. There isnt any money left thats the whole point..

That's exactly what we want them to do though! Spend it on something else. In this case something that will save a few lives instead of ending them

[Vteckidd]

That's exactly what we want them to do though! Spend it on something else. In this case something that will save a few lives instead of ending them

yeah but they wont do that lol

Govt looks at SAVING 100 million from not being in a war= Spend 100 million on building airport for Senator of North Dakota.

There are no savings per se, if there was they would pay down the deficit.

When we are projected at running 1+ Trillion dollar deficits already, there are no savings.

The reason why the individual mandate is so big, is if it got struck down they had ZERO way to fund Obamacare. the war savings doesnt touch 1/100th the cost of healthcare in this country

[BanginJimmy]

That's exactly what we want them to do though! Spend it on something else. In this case something that will save a few lives instead of ending them

The entire cost of a decade in Iraq and Asscrackistan wont pay for 2 years of Obamacare.

This is going to push our deficits even further and probably lead to another downgrade.



Where do you see savings for ANYONE in this bill? Just a reminder, I dont use the congressional definition of savings either. Savings means spending less than the previous year, not a smaller increase.

[Sinfix_15]

The ones bitching about it are the rich republicans who already have insurance, and the pseudo-republican-conservatives who vote party line no matter what, even when it hurts them because "'Murica fuck yea damn liberals". Anyone who does have half a brain won't give a shit because it will benefit them or it won't.

In countries with socialized healthcare, everyone raves about it and talks about how much America's healthcare system sucks, which it does. No one complains about wait times or quality of care because it's a non issue. Everyone gets the same quality of care, rich or poor. "Oh I dont wanna pay for someone else's grandmas healthcare because wah wah wah". Get over yourself or move to another country. I would gladly pay extra taxes so that myself and all my friends and family get healthcare.

i would gladly move to another country if i had a realistic option to do so. If my job opened a branch in another country.... id be asking whos dick i could suck to get moved there. Yes..... thats how bad YOUR president is.

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I wonder if this was Romney's healthcare plan if there would have been as much backlash against it. My guess is probably not because it would've been sold with American eagles and Jesus.

[Vteckidd]

I wonder if this was Romney's healthcare plan if there would have been as much backlash against it. My guess is probably not because it would've been sold with American eagles and Jesus.

rOMNEYS plan was a STATE plan not a national plan, and it went after people that didnt have insurance and left the people that did have insurance alone in theory.

But even so, its much easier to have an individual mandate on a per state basis that the state pays for itself, not at the federal level.

its 2 totally different plans, Romney or GOP never would have proposed what Obama is proposing. The GOP thought up the individual mandate, and honestly i think the individual mandate is something we are going to have to come to grips with and somehow its going to have to work. But it should be within the guise of the private insurance companies.

Obamas mandate is to basically take a step towards eliminating the private insurance companies so we get single payer. Problem is the country cannot afford single payer, itll go broke. Then, you wont have any healthcare at all

[BanginJimmy]

I really need to make myself read more on Romneycare so I can actually compare the 2.

Does Romneycare also carry with it all of the extra mandates to insurance companies that Obamacare does? Does it also dictate how much an insurer is allowed to make? Could you imagine what this world would be like if the govt could tell an individual business how much they are allowed to make?


BTW, I have yet to hear anyone tell me how Obamacare is going to do anything but cause prices to go up drasticly.


You cant say the mandate will bring in all these extra healthy people because the bill also forces a lot more expenses on insurers than it does revenue. How many hundreds of new healthy customers will it take for an insurer to cover just 1 cancer case? How many millions will it take for an insurer to cover free checkups and free birth control? The math just isnt there unless insurers just jack up prices. According to the bill, 80% of premiums will need to be spent on healthcare, I wonder how insurers will adjust to that to keep their profit margin constant, which they will do.

On top of all the other problems, this bill will eliminate competition as small insurers will have no way to compete with larger ones.

[nelson9995]

Again, ignore what you can't control. It's passed, nothing we can do about it.
Let's adapt to it, just like the elderly had to adapt to SS.

[BanginJimmy]

Again, ignore what you can't control. It's passed, nothing we can do about it.
Let's adapt to it, just like the elderly had to adapt to SS.

Or you do the smart thing and work to get people elected who will repeal it.

The French and English are happy you had no influence in the early '40's. You would have just told them to adapt to the new reality of German occupation.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

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Or you do the smart thing and work to get people elected who will repeal it.

The French and English are happy you had no influence in the early '40's. You would have just told them to adapt to the new reality of German occupation.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

No, they're happy we have no influence cause if we influenced them, they'd have for-profit healthcare and citizens dying because they can't afford treatment.

[Vteckidd]

I think for profit is the only way healthcare can be run, but you must force competition to bring prices down and offer tailored plans to meet peoples needs.

Healthcare cant be run as a non profit, theres not enough money in the world to do that

[Sinfix_15]

No, they're happy we have no influence cause if we influenced them, they'd have for-profit healthcare and citizens dying because they can't afford treatment.

The soup at the soup kitchen is just as good and readily available as the soup at Olive Garden. If all of Olive Garden's customers decided to go to the soup kitchen, the soup kitchen would have no problems continuing to offer their soup without profit. The quality of chef that would volunteer to work at the soup kitchen is just as good as the chef who would work for profit at Olive Garden.

Silly right?

Why cant we use the same common sense when talking about healthcare?

[Vteckidd]

The soup at the soup kitchen is just as good and readily available as the soup at Olive Garden. If all of Olive Garden's customers decided to go to the soup kitchen, the soup kitchen would have no problems continuing to offer their soup without profit. The quality of chef that would volunteer to work at the soup kitchen is just as good as the chef who would work for profit at Olive Garden.

Silly right?

Why cant we use the same common sense when talking about healthcare?

because they will say the Soup Kitchen is better because everyone gets care vs only the people who can afford it.

If you have ZERO healthcare at all, would you rather have shitty Dr visits, or nothing? They arent concerned with the "top care" because they will never get it anyway. Its why people freak out when they hear the oil companies make 20 billion dollars in profit, when in reality, they only average 8% return. 20 billion is a huge number when you make $50,000 a year yourself, but in context of their operation, its not a lot of money. they could make A TON more.

Mediocre care for everyone is better than Decent care for some, and no care for others, and top quality care for few. That is their entire argument. They want to bring the entire system down lower so everyone can partake in it.

[Browning151]

because they will say the Soup Kitchen is better because everyone gets care vs only the people who can afford it.

If you have ZERO healthcare at all, would you rather have shitty Dr visits, or nothing? They arent concerned with the "top care" because they will never get it anyway. Its why people freak out when they hear the oil companies make 20 billion dollars in profit, when in reality, they only average 8% return. 20 billion is a huge number when you make $50,000 a year yourself, but in context of their operation, its not a lot of money. they could make A TON more.

Mediocre care for everyone is better than Decent care for some, and no care for others, and top quality care for few. That is their entire argument. They want to bring the entire system down lower so everyone can partake in it.

That's the liberal way, instead of bringing the bottom up, bring the top down. All in the name of fairness.

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That's the liberal way, instead of bringing the bottom up, bring the top down. All in the name of fairness.

Is the right still using this tired old phrase? Bring the top down instead of the bottom up? LOL

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The soup at the soup kitchen is just as good and readily available as the soup at Olive Garden. If all of Olive Garden's customers decided to go to the soup kitchen, the soup kitchen would have no problems continuing to offer their soup without profit. The quality of chef that would volunteer to work at the soup kitchen is just as good as the chef who would work for profit at Olive Garden.

Silly right?

Why cant we use the same common sense when talking about healthcare?

Really?

[Sinfix_15]

At what point will black people be able to discuss Obama subjectively? will it not be until we have a 2nd black president? It's nearly impossible to talk about Obama with a black person. He can literally do nothing wrong and is the savior of the modern world............

[Sinfix_15]

Really?

What part of the analogy do you not understand?

[Browning151]

Is the right still using this tired old phrase? Bring the top down instead of the bottom up? LOL

That's exactly what PRESBO has preached since day 1, tax the rich and spread the wealth, same principle applies with this healthcare mess. If that's not bringing the top down I don't know what is.

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What part of the analogy do you not understand?

I think you and a lot of people confuse "non-profit" with "free".

[Vteckidd]

I think you and a lot of people confuse "non-profit" with "free".

I wasnt being an asshole, i was being serious so just focus on what i said. Is that not true?

You cant have innovation without investment which comes from profit. Sure, there are govt funded research labs and such, but as a whole, private investment is much more thriving and bigger.

If you try to eliminate the private insurance carriers, and make everything govt related, you will lose that section of the business that invests in Viagra, Propecia, Cancer drugs, etc. They risk capital to find new medicine, but also to make money. Thats just the way the world works.

Healthcare is far to big an industry to be solely non-profit. Most Non Profits exist in niche markets.

[Vteckidd]

Is the right still using this tired old phrase? Bring the top down instead of the bottom up? LOL

well that is what they are doing. Its impossible to have top quality care when you want to put a cap on what people can make. Its econ 101. Remember Healthcare is a for profit business, we all agreed it is. Dealing with that business model, you cannot have:

A) Cheap care
B) Free access
C) Top Talent

Just not possible. you cant have the best Drs in the world with the best equipment and have it be a not for profit business model. not only that, the whole premise of universal healthcare is to give access to a service that only the "wealthier" of people can afford. So yes, it is bringing the top down to the bottom.

[alex14]

Speaking as a 21 year old who lives on my own and is 100% independent from my parents, free healthcare is horse shit. I dont have healthcare because I cant afford it. Healthcare is a privileged not a right. Besides, go to the hospital when you are hurt. It is illegal for them to not help you. People are going to abuse the shit out of this.

The government sucks ass at running things in comparison to the private sector, Do you really want these fools in control of your well-being? I know I dont.

[nelson9995]

Speaking as a 21 year old who lives on my own and is 100% independent from my parents, free healthcare is horse shit. I dont have healthcare because I cant afford it. Healthcare is a privileged not a right. Besides, go to the hospital when you are hurt. It is illegal for them to not help you. People are going to abuse the shit out of this.

The government sucks ass at running things in comparison to the private sector, Do you really want these fools in control of your well-being? I know I dont.

So, if you can't afford medical ins... what makes you think you can afford the bill after you go for their overpriced services?

[BanginJimmy]

So, if you can't afford medical ins... what makes you think you can afford the bill after you go for their overpriced services?

A VAST majority of singles in their 20's will spend more a year on medical insurance than they do on medical care. To counter the possibilty of a major procedure you can easily purchase a major medical plan for 1/10th of the cost of a typical plan.


Since you believe the services re overpiced and you agree with Obamacare, why dont you enlighten us and tell us what provisions of Obamacare will bring prices down.

[nelson9995]

Who cares about prices not dropping? You can now feel safe knowing your grandmother who may have diabetes, cancer, etc... can get treated...

and the whole thing about wait until you need it and get insurance is bs.
Have you not seen all the cases where people go in and their insurance won't cover because they previously had the same problem they are now going in for. Most insurances won't cover you.

Man, I swear the only ones complaining are the ones that can already afford insurance, or are being affected by this in a negative way.

[nelson9995]

I would gladly pay a bit extra and know that people aren't dying from cancer because they found out when it's too late. This is a form of preventive care. But again, 99% of business owners are against this because it is hurting their pockets. This is why the world is the way it is. Noone cares about anyone anymore.
Notice how most the billion dollar companies pay minimum wage. How do the rich get rich? exploiting the poor. It is VERY hard for a person to get rich doing the right thing. It all works together.

I was watching undercover boss and I can't remember the last time I got that angry. The owner went for a week undercover doing what his employees do and by NO MEANS he could do what they did. Not even in double the time. These people are being worked in paces where only robots would be able to do it effectively. Even though he couldn't do ANYTHING, not even in double the time as his employees, he didn't do anything to change it. He just congratulated them, (In other words, "thanks for making me money bitches") and didn't change a thing. Why? because he could care less about his employees, all he cares about is them making him money.

Sadly, this is the way it is in 99% of the cases. Most business owners disgust me.
I've only met one business owner, in my entire life, who I actually looked up to.

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The government sucks ass at running things in comparison to the private sector, Do you really want these fools in control of your well-being? I know I dont.

You hit the nail on the head, but why stop there? We need private sector law enforcement, military, and fire departments as well. We can't continue to trust the government with our safety! And why are we still letting Uncle Sam regulate what goes in our mouths with their ridiculous FDA? And what about the Department of Education? If I want my childs school to teach my children that the earth was made 6000 years ago and dinosaurs existed with humans, then god damnit, thats what they're gonna teach! When are we gonna learn, we gotta let the private sector handle ALL of this since the government sucks at running things, period. And dont let the damn libruls tell you any different!

[Vteckidd]

Police , Fire, Teachers arent 1/100th the cost of medical care. And they are totally different scenarios. The federal govt doesnt run police, fire services, those are state taxes.

ANd if you havent noticed most public school institutions are bankrupt