#OccupyWallStreet. Why is this not getting major MSM attention?

[Vteckidd]

Let me go ahead and stop you right here. I can clearly see that you don't understand how this whole movement thing works.

Every day you go into the for sale section in IA and see people selling curbed up Drag wheels for $1000 bucks. Do they think they'll get a stack for em? Hell no. They're playing the game. Someone will come down to the price set they're looking for. Same thing happens here. They're not stupid. They throw out a highball number so that when negotiating begins, they have a higher starting point. You can't really topple a system of greed by asking for a pittance.

Let me ask all the naysayers this: If you think this whole OWS thing is bogus, what do you make of the recent LARGE (several million dollar) cash "donation" by JP Morgan Chase to the NY City Police Department, and the subsequent aggressiveness by the department? Bunch of generous folks up there at Chase I guess

what basis does a 20/hr minimum wage have vailidity? Please, explain. Minimum wage is already high, minimum wage isnt for people to survive their entire lives on, its for people who start out and have a job at the bottom rung. Its for teenagers and college kids. Its not for some 45 year old or some 30 year old. its for 16-22.

TELL ME WHY THEY SHOULD GET ANY INCREASE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE?? LET ALONE 20$/HR. the fact they want $20/hr for the most menial jobs, AND free borders is just one big pile of laugh. Seriously? you think these no working kids will be able to compete against a flood of immigrants that are actually WILLING to do the work? No, they dont care , because they will have their LIVING WAGE which means who gives a shit if they get a job, theyll have free govt money.

Their argument for having a 20$/hr minimum wage is because they are INCAPABLE OF MAKING A DECENT LIVING BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN FAULTS. Thats it. I dont think i should subsidize someones inability to make a living.

These ARENT people slaving away at blue collar jobs being mistreated. Id be more sympathetic then. These are SLACKERS, IDIOTS, FREE LOADERS who havent worked a day in their life demending free shit on the backs of everyone else. They probably come from WEALTHY FAMILIES. I mean who protests corporate greed then says "im eating mcdonalds". Or is talking on their Iphone? These people had a moment of silence for Steve Jobs, the epitome of capitalism and corporations lol.

FYI I think Goldman Sachs is a big a cheat as there ever was, so are some of the other big banking systems out there. BUT WE COULD HAVE LET THEM FAIL , but who bailed them out? BUSH AND OBAMA. SO why arent we protesting Obama since he is in power?

Their list of demands shows who they are, they want to transfer all the wealth from the rich to them, the poor, because it would make them ..........rich. They want to take from people with money because they have none. its sad, its pathetic, and i hope they realize how stupid they are

[Browning151]

I mean who protests corporate greed then says "im eating mcdonalds". Or is talking on their Iphone?

This is what cracks me up about the whole thing. "Damn these evil rich people, corporations and banks. I'm going to protest them and post on facebook and twitter the whole time from my iPhone and iPad etc.etc." How do you think those devices ever came to be? They sure as hell didn't come from government, they were designed and produced because of the FREE MARKET.



You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[bu villain]

Wow I haven't seen such polarization on this forum for a while. I don't care if it's the tea partiers or the occupy wall streeters. I'm glad when I see people protesting and standing up for what they believe in. You don't have to agree with someone to respect their convictions. I don't care if they are hippies, rednecks, or whatever. Ideas should be argued but it seems like people would rather attack each other and focus on every negative aspect they can than to actually debate ideas in a civil and intelligent way.

I'll jump back in when I don't have to wade through so many angry accusations to discuss actual issues and policies. It's like a fucking soap opera in here.

[BanginJimmy]

I'm glad when I see people protesting and standing up for what they believe in. You don't have to agree with someone to respect their convictions. I don't care if they are hippies, rednecks, or whatever. Ideas should be argued but it seems like people would rather attack each other and focus on every negative aspect they can than to actually debate ideas in a civil and intelligent way.

You might want to run over to Wall St. and let them know what they are protesting then. The people out there have no clue. Most are just there to say they were there.

[alpine_aw11]

I just love the Tea Party supporters tearing the protestors down as ignorant/uninformed when the Tea Party was the dumbest group of slackjawed fucks I've ever seen in my life. Just sayin. Tea Party protestor=patriot, occupy WS protestor=anti-american communist stoner.

[BanginJimmy]

I just love the Tea Party supporters tearing the protestors down as ignorant/uninformed when the Tea Party was the dumbest group of slackjawed fucks I've ever seen in my life. Just sayin. Tea Party protestor=patriot, occupy WS protestor=anti-american communist stoner.

And I find the opposite quite entertaining. How all the OWS supporters, like yourself, were so quick to degrade the tea party, yet get all butt hurt then the tea party attacks the OWS hippies.


Quick question. How many tea partiers were arrested? How many tea partiers were shitting on American flags and police cars? How many tea party rallies required a massive cleanup effort?

[.blank cd]

Isnt that cute, you can use my quote and attach it to another, completely unrelated, subject.

Ok. It's clear that you don't want an intelligent discussion, from this statement alone. In every language, at least in the English language anyway, protesting is the same word and means the same thing as protesting. I don't know how I could explain that any better. It doesn't matter if you do it in 1960 or in 2011. Protesting is protesting is protesting. Both subjects are related. That's it.

Exactly.

LOL. Ok. I'll concede that one. I guess getting money is getting money, no matter how many people or nations you have to screw up in the process

Yes it is. Salk may not have been extremely rich, but I can assure you that he wasnt living pay check to pay check. As an MD and researcher I can assure you that he made good money in his day.

Fast forward to someone well known in sports today. Joe Paterno is the lowest paid head coach among the 'BCS' schools. I would say he is extremely successful in life even though he could be making 3 or 4x the money is he now.

You completely overlooked my point, but ok, I'll address your new point. I sold lemonade for a living, and then patented a revolutionary new way to sweeten it, and then gave it away for free, I was successful in revolutionizing my industry and made zero dollars from it. This is aside from the success I had selling the lemonade.

You can find a major medical plan for a healthy male for less than $100 a month.

Since you already know the argument, you already know its true. You forgot to mention the lower quality care though. Not really a fan of Socialism, I mean, can you name a single place on earth that it has actually worked?

$70 seems to be about the going rate for a decent insurance plan. I would say I'm a person of average health. If I had this plan, I would spend about 900 bucks a year, and if I'm lucky I'll make one visit to the Gen. Practioner. $100. Then 5 years from now after I've spent $5000 on HI, my company decides to switch carriers, and a week later I take a nasty spill down some stairs and break my leg, some carriers don't cover major medical for a year, but what about what I've already paid? Where did that all go? Healthcare needs major revamping. I'll give it to the president for trying more than the previous presidents before him, but it's just not enough.

The quality of care is not lessened by a socialized system. Actually that's not true anywhere. Look it up, ask some people in Canada.

And I'm going to assume from your hostility to the word "socialism", that you actually mean "National Socialism", or you mean "communism". All of which are different concepts which conservatives and the Tea Party easily get mixed up. It is quite obvious that unbridled capitalism (which is where the US is heading) is not working out. "Socialism", which you and I benefit from every single day, whether you want to believe it or not, is a great idea, when it's balanced. Capitalism is also a great idea, when it's balanced. But as of late, that balance is becoming unchecked. This is where our problems lie. So to bluntly answer your question, socialism has worked for the United States. If it hasn't worked for you, feel free to stop using public highways, MARTA, US post offices, public schools, and public libraries.

[Vteckidd]

ok this is going to be a long post so READ EVERYTHING. Lets keep it as simple as possible.

Lets all agree that our Economy runs on the private sector. Lets also agree that the Government doesnt create wealth it only transfers it. It also doesnt create money, it COLLECTs it through taxes. It generates that through income taxes, lifestyle taxes (gas , sales, etc). It also collects taxes from "corporations" as well as individuals.

Ok so lets address this $20/hr minimum wage, free healthcare, free education notion. Lets pretend that tomorrow, all that gets passed. As a business owner you have the right to shut your operation down. So lets assume tomorrow ALL THE CORPORATIONS vanish, because the evil millionaires and billionaires decide "you know what, ill retreat with me millions and live a nice life" and shut everything down. Mcdonalds closes, starbucks, apple, etc they all decide you know what WE ARE THE 1% and we dont have to employ the other 99%.

Tax revenues drop because guess what theres no corporations anymore, and theres no more workers FOR those corporations. The cashiers, the stock people, the drivers, the cooks , all unemployed. Cause for every fatcat billionaire, there is 1000 people he employs. For every wall street financier there is 1000 stock traders trading his companies stock, who make commission.

Now, the govt collects ZERO in taxes. No corporations, no individuals working, less jobs, no revenue for the govt. So, how do they pay your healthcare and education?

Now you are asking that doctors, nurses, professors, etc teach people for free, out of the kindness of their heart. That is essentially what they are asking. That brain surgeons/heart surgeons etc should be educated to the highest standard for free, and then basically work for free. the govt remember has no money or very little at this point because you have made it impossible for anyone to operate under the $20/hr minimum wage rule. So where does the govt get this money from? it will print it. Which drives up inflation. What good is a ferrari if everyone owns one?

If everyone is a millionaire, then being a millionare is not what it used to be. Go to turkey, you can be a turkish millionaire for about $10 US.

First you have to realize the capitalistic system (which is the best in the world) is built upon personal success. Some people are BORN into wealth. Obama, Bush, Rockefellar, Hilton, Kardashian, etc were all born into wealthy families. YOu cannot stop that. Thats a privledge as old as time. You cant legislate people being born into life all the same. Its impossible. So except that some people are going to be better off than you at birth. That is just life.

For every person born INTO wealth there is a person not born into wealth. And those people still make it to the top. Richard Branson, Donald Trump, Steve Jobs , Bill Gates, any rapper in our lifetime, almost any sports figure etc was born into poverty and impossible to propser conditions, and made it in life. through work, through talent, through luck etc.

You also have to accept the fact that there are people that will NEVER make it. Luck, intelligence, work ethic, whatever the case may be, they will NEVER make a decent living, they will never be "rich". That is also life. Because to have a society that flourishes and grows, there has to be a top and a bottom.

Now the BOTTOM in the us isnt that bad. Our poor are the wealthiest individuals in the world and in most cases rank among the MIDDLE class of other countries (europe). Lets not confuse a HARD LIFE with a POOR LIFE. there is a difference and sometimes that line gets blurred.

What these occupy people are wanting is impossible to have. the banks taking the billions in bailout money, that was politicians offering it, they didnt have to take it. Blame Bush, Blame Congress, Blame Obama. The mortgage crises is just as much mainstreets fault as it is wall streets. TAKE RESPONSBILITY. Lost your house? that sucks, but it happens. You arent GUARANTEED HAPPINESS, only the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS. you are guaranteed the ABILITY/OPPORTUNITY to acquire wealth, not wealth itself.

Once you understand these concepts, it makes it easier to see just how insane these protests are. If wall street "people" walked outside and offered any of those people a job they would join their ranks in a heartbeat. The fact there is no jobs is NOT WALL STREETS fault, its Politicians. Furthermore, you have to understand and except the economic system we have. i see people protesting about no jobs with blue hair, piercings, visible tattoos, etc. No one in life takes you serious looking like that. I have tattoos but they are hidden. I didnt pievrce my nise or ears because it looks unprofessional. I dont die my hair a fucked up color because its not acceptable. realize your decisions TODAY affect you tomorrow.

Would you rather have a economic system that is setup for anyone to succeed but some will fail or a system that legislates people to all be the same and doesnt incentivize work or perseverance or wealth.

I think herman cain said it best. "if you arent wealthy, blame yourself"

[BanginJimmy]

Ok. It's clear that you don't want an intelligent discussion, from this statement alone. In every language, at least in the English language anyway, protesting is the same word and means the same thing as protesting. I don't know how I could explain that any better. It doesn't matter if you do it in 1960 or in 2011. Protesting is protesting is protesting. Both subjects are related. That's it.

So relating my comments to a completely different situation is intelligent discussion, but calling you out on it is not?

LOL. Ok. I'll concede that one. I guess getting money is getting money, no matter how many people or nations you have to screw up in the process

If you dont like my definition of greed, where is yours? You failed to comment on that part of my response.

You completely overlooked my point, but ok, I'll address your new point. I sold lemonade for a living, and then patented a revolutionary new way to sweeten it, and then gave it away for free, I was successful in revolutionizing my industry and made zero dollars from it. This is aside from the success I had selling the lemonade.

You made zero dollars from the patent, but you made money off the sweetener by selling the lemonade. Your success was simply selling the lemonade. It is possible to be successful doing more than 1 thing you know.

$70 seems to be about the going rate for a decent insurance plan. I would say I'm a person of average health. If I had this plan, I would spend about 900 bucks a year, and if I'm lucky I'll make one visit to the Gen. Practioner. $100. Then 5 years from now after I've spent $5000 on HI, my company decides to switch carriers, and a week later I take a nasty spill down some stairs and break my leg, some carriers don't cover major medical for a year, but what about what I've already paid? Where did that all go? Healthcare needs major revamping. I'll give it to the president for trying more than the previous presidents before him, but it's just not enough.

employer run health coverage typically doesnt have the same pre-existing condition stipulations as individually purchased. Also, I have never heard of an employer provided coverage having any type of wait time for full coverage. just your typical 3 month probation period. You could also get your major medical plan and supplant it with a health savings account to further reduce your out of pocket costs.

The quality of care is not lessened by a socialized system. Actually that's not true anywhere. Look it up, ask some people in Canada.

the same Canadians that come to the US for major medical care, such as cancer, if they can afford it?

It seems cancer survival rates are FAR higher in the US than the socialized medical systems of Europe.
http://factcheck.org/2009/08/cancer-...d-conclusions/

And I'm going to assume from your hostility to the word "socialism", that you actually mean "National Socialism", or you mean "communism". All of which are different concepts which conservatives and the Tea Party easily get mixed up. It is quite obvious that unbridled capitalism (which is where the US is heading) is not working out. "Socialism", which you and I benefit from every single day, whether you want to believe it or not, is a great idea, when it's balanced. Capitalism is also a great idea, when it's balanced. But as of late, that balance is becoming unchecked. This is where our problems lie. So to bluntly answer your question, socialism has worked for the United States. If it hasn't worked for you, feel free to stop using public highways, MARTA, US post offices, public schools, and public libraries.

Socialism is govt control over the means of production. Basicly a centrally planned economy where the govt selects winners and losers among businesses. I'm sure that wont lead to a bit of corruption.

Maybe you should recheck your definition, if you believe socialism has worked. As to your point about capitalism, the problem right now is crony capitalism. Business owners buying politicians for special breaks and no bid contracts.

BTW, I avoid the post office whenever possible and I wouldnt sentence my kids, if I had any, to public schools.



You never asnwered my point about greed though.

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ok this is going to be a long post so READ EVERYTHING. Lets keep it as simple as possible.

Lets all agree that our Economy runs on the private sector. Lets also agree that the Government doesnt create wealth it only transfers it. It also doesnt create money, it COLLECTs it through taxes. It generates that through income taxes, lifestyle taxes (gas , sales, etc). It also collects taxes from "corporations" as well as individuals.

Ok so lets address this $20/hr minimum wage, free healthcare, free education notion. Lets pretend that tomorrow, all that gets passed. As a business owner you have the right to shut your operation down. So lets assume tomorrow ALL THE CORPORATIONS vanish, because the evil millionaires and billionaires decide "you know what, ill retreat with me millions and live a nice life" and shut everything down. Mcdonalds closes, starbucks, apple, etc they all decide you know what WE ARE THE 1% and we dont have to employ the other 99%.

I'm having trouble assuming your fantasy scenario would actually happen. If an owner/founder of a corporation decided one day to say fuck it and take all his money and move to Fiji, the company wouldnt fold up. Im not sure if you understand how these corporations work. Unless of course you could get every single shareholder to divest their interests.

I think herman cain said it best. "if you arent wealthy, blame yourself

Herman Cain is delusional. Tell him to preach that nonsense to police officers, firefighters, EMT's, teachers, and other public workers who are wealthy and don't have a lot of money.

[Vteckidd]

I'm having trouble assuming your fantasy scenario would actually happen. If an owner/founder of a corporation decided one day to say fuck it and take all his money and move to Fiji, the company wouldnt fold up. Im not sure if you understand how these corporations work. Unless of course you could get every single shareholder to divest their interests.

No you obviously have no clue how our economic system works. Show me a law where any corporation HAS TO STAY OPEN? If you make costs HIGH enough for them, THEY WILL CLOSE THEIR DOORS VOLUNTARILY RIGHT? If you run a business and your Expenses are $1000 and you profit $1000, then all of the sudden your expenses become $1900, theoretcially you can close up shop right? liquadate everything, move on, close up , peace out.

So, you(and others) have to realize that when people (corporations) ARENT hiring, raising their COSTS (free healthcare, housing, education, minimum wage) isnt going to magically make them hire more people. You want to legislate them to their knees and what im saying is BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. If every corporation tomorrow said adios they could, and they could cash out the share holders and leave (think ENRON). The shareholders could do NOTHING. They could get what the open market said their piece of paper was worth. So, IF that happened, WHERE WOULD YOU GET YOUR MONEY FOR YOUR FREE PROGRAMS FROM?

Which is more fantasy? The scenario i posted which would be a direct result of this groups demands, or yours, this utopian koombaya society where everything is free yet you have no idea how to pay for any of it.

Since you basically skipped over EVERYTHING of substance i posted, ill make it even simpler:

HOW DO WE PAY FOR FREE HEALTHCARE
HOW DO WE PAY FOR FREE EDUCATION
WHO PAYS FOR THE $20/hr minimum wage increase ($13 more an hour over what it is now).
DO YOU THINK A 16 YEAR OLD DESERVES $40,000 a year to work the drive thru at mcdonalds?
DO YOU REALIZE THAT ITS A MASSIVE DOSE OF INFLATION IF YOU RAISE THE FLOOR THAT HIGH?

Answer me those simple questions. I suspect youre young, never had a real job, prob dont have a lot of money, and dont want to work for it. Or you got a degree in something oversaturated like graphic design, or history and are angry there is no $100,000 jobs in your field. that sucks, but its not my fault, just like its not your fault i chose to work in the automotive industry for 7 years making $14,600 a year until i wised up.

I realized that field sucked and got out of it.

[Vteckidd]

Herman Cain is delusional. Tell him to preach that nonsense to police officers, firefighters, EMT's, teachers, and other public workers who are wealthy and don't have a lot of money.

No hes not delusional he is 100% right. You realize that those people who CHOOSE those fields KNOW their fields dont pay high right? Do you think ANY teacher in elementary school THINKS they will make BIG BUCKs when they go through their college career? Firefighters dont do it for the money. Do you think any cop said "hell yeah im gonna join the police so i can be rich!"

FUCK NO.

So THEIR life choices , which i am thankful for, is not MY BURDEN TO BEAR. If any of them WANTED to be doctors, or nurses, or go into IT or anything else THEY COULD HAVE. BUT THEY CHOSE NOT TO!

THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM

[BanginJimmy]

I'm having trouble assuming your fantasy scenario would actually happen. If an owner/founder of a corporation decided one day to say fuck it and take all his money and move to Fiji, the company wouldnt fold up. Im not sure if you understand how these corporations work. Unless of course you could get every single shareholder to divest their interests.

You are assuming that every corporation has stock holders. Chrysler Corp doesnt have a single share of common stock. What they offer for public trade are corporate bonds. They work much the same as a share of stock, but they dont offer voting rights.

Herman Cain is delusional. Tell him to preach that nonsense to police officers, firefighters, EMT's, teachers, and other public workers who are wealthy and don't have a lot of money.

Really? What is delusional about telling people that not everyone is going to be rich and you are to blame if you arent? It may not be good politics, but it is reality.

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You're stuck on this $20 an hr minimum wage thing. I'm looking all over the place and not seeing this as an official grievance. So we're gonna scratch this altogether. What I am seeing as a universal grievance is the end of the revolving door policy and the end of corporate personhood. Let me address this free education thing while I have a minute

We have spent over 1.2 TRILLION DOLLARS on "terror war" since the end of 2001. I'm not gonna include the war on drugs right now. That's taxes that you've paid, I've paid, everyone who lives here has already paid. Lets also say that the total cost of ONLY the operations finding and capturing/killing OBL and Sadam Hussein cost $200b. Might be over guesstimating but let's just use this.

Let's also assume that on average, it costs $20k to send a kid to an accredited state university for 4 years. Out of that remaining balance of 1 trillion dollars, you could send 50 MILLION kids to state universities, or HEAVILY subsidize 100 MILLION.

But this is really a grievance for DC.

[Vteckidd]

You're stuck on this $20 an hr minimum wage thing. I'm looking all over the place and not seeing this as an official grievance. So we're gonna scratch this altogether.

its on the page i believe YOU LISTED where their manifesto is posted

Let me address this free education thing while I have a minute

We have spent over 1.2 TRILLION DOLLARS on "terror war" since the end of 2001. I'm not gonna include the war on drugs right now. That's taxes that you've paid, I've paid, everyone who lives here has already paid. Lets also say that the total cost of ONLY the operations finding and capturing/killing OBL and Sadam Hussein cost $200b. Might be over guesstimating but let's just use this.

Let's also assume that on average, it costs $20k to send a kid to an accredited state university for 4 years. Out of that remaining balance of 1 trillion dollars, you could send 50 MILLION kids to state universities, or HEAVILY subsidize 100 MILLION.

But this is really a grievance for DC.

Ok great, that money is gone, spent, done with. You cant travel back in time and get it, and NEWSFLASH the money we HAVE SPENT has sunk us DEEPER in debt. So merely saying YOU think you ahve a better way of spending a trillion dollars doesnt make you the savior. The problems we face are NOW, not yesterday. So , you cannot get that 1.2 trillion dollars back, so again i ask you how do you intend to pay for all this?

We are running at 1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR in deficits RIGHT NOW. so that 1.2 trillion you estimate we spent, that covers 1 YEAR OF OBAMA SPENDING. That makes us BREAK EVEN. think about that. So the 10 years of war amount to burying 2008s DEFICIT BY ITSELF then we are at zero. That doesnt wipe out the 9 trillion we had in debt before then, and the 1.3+ trillion PER YEAR we accrue now. So no, the war not happening doesnt even come CLOSE to solving your problem of money.

And, HOW IS THAT WALL STREETS FAULT????!!!! The Iraq/afghan war was DC NOT BANKERS ON WALL STREET. so why arent we protesting them?

I think you are starting to see the other side, keep walking into the light, youre almost there.

Also, college in this country is a PRIVLEDGE, not a right. High school education is where the states burden on education ends. College is not for everyone and MANY people choose NOT to go. So , if you get good grades in HIGH school you get the OPPORTUNITY to attend college. Now i agree that some kids may not have the finances to get to college and pay for it, for them there ARE govt loans EASILY accessible. Professors have to get paid, staff has to get paid, clerks, secretaries, phone systems etc have to get paid for. thats what your tuition goes to.

Why should the govt pay for anyones college education? For Free? Why? If your beef is with colleges CHARGING too much, then why arent we protesting THEM??? What does that have to do with Wall Street?

[-EnVus-]

Ok after watching all the News on the Occupy Atlanta ppl ive concluded they are all Hippies. Also all of them have no idea wtf is going on or why and are poor excuses for protesters.

[alpine_aw11]

Ok after watching all the News on the Occupy Atlanta ppl ive concluded they are all Hippies. Also all of them have no idea wtf is going on or why and are poor excuses for protesters.

If the government would decide to actually give a shit about this country instead of just their own interests, the uninformed wouldn't have to protest. You can't sit here and blame these people for not knowing the ins and outs of what's going on when we aren't included in our democracy anymore. The same thing happened a couple years ago......

That being said, I agree with you somewhat. Lots of idiots out there, however you can't sit here and say they're all dumb. That's ignorant.

[Total_Blender]

Nothing to see here in this thread, just selfish and petulant neocons grumbling about how they hate everybody and everything.

[Browning151]

Nothing to see here in this thread, just selfish and petulant neocons grumbling about how they hate everybody and everything.

Typical Blender. No constructive comment, just some petty name calling.

[Vteckidd]

i dont hate anyone. Im just pointing out the hypocrisy in their protests.

Ive yet to hear anyone reasonably justify why protesting wall street has anything to do with the govt bailing them out.

[bu villain]

i dont hate anyone. Im just pointing out the hypocrisy in their protests.

Ive yet to hear anyone reasonably justify why protesting wall street has anything to do with the govt bailing them out.

I think this is a common misconception about these protests. These protests are not just about wall street. The protestors are not really unified on any particular issue. The protestors seem hypocritical because they don't all agree with eachother on many issues. They are not a monolithical group rallying around an issue.

The only unifying theme seems to be that all these people feel disenfranchised. That no one is acting on their behalf and no one in power represents their views. Thus they are trying to be heard in the only way they know how. That's what I am seeing at least.

[BanginJimmy]

I think this is a common misconception about these protests. These protests are not just about wall street. The protestors are not really unified on any particular issue. The protestors seem hypocritical because they don't all agree with eachother on many issues. They are not a monolithical group rallying around an issue.

The only unifying theme seems to be that all these people feel disenfranchised. That no one is acting on their behalf and no one in power represents their views. Thus they are trying to be heard in the only way they know how. That's what I am seeing at least.

All I see is kids with no clue what they are talking about. This has been proven by both sets of grievances that have been posted in this thread.


I do find it odd that the same people ridiculing the Tea Party, which does actually have a set of realistic goals, are praising OWS. Outside of their political leaning, what is the difference? Other than the arrests and the mess they are making of course.

[green91]

Do people not understand HOW these large corporations got to be as prosperous as they are? They offered goods/services that people wanted, EARNED business in a competitive market place, and continued to GROW their WILLING CUSTOMER base. THE VERY PEOPLE who are protesting likely have used the SERVICES/GOODS of these corporations! You can't make money out of thin air, and these corporations can't either. Now it is true that it generally takes money to earn money, and once youre at the top its easier to stay there and increase.

Education is another dumb argument. Yes, tuition is absurdly high. But its also an investment in YOUR LIFE. Like buying a property knowing it will earn you dividends throughout the course of owning it and hopefully paying for itself in short time. Plus nowadays a bachelor's or master's isn't even a dire neccesity to be prosperous as much as it was in the past. I am so tired of hearing people my age complaining about how the gov't should relieve them of their student loans, yet i see them buying a $2,000 macbook pro and eating fucking ramen noodles every day on these loans.

[bu villain]

All I see is kids with no clue what they are talking about. This has been proven by both sets of grievances that have been posted in this thread.

There is no official list of greviences. The list posted in this thread was proposed by a single individual. You can't say it represents everyone protesting in dozens of cities.

I do find it odd that the same people ridiculing the Tea Party, which does actually have a set of realistic goals, are praising OWS. Outside of their political leaning, what is the difference? Other than the arrests and the mess they are making of course.

I agree that there is hypocrisy with both sides ridiculing each other for passionately standing up for what they believe in. I'm noticing a lot of people these days have a hard time respecting those they disagree with.

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All kidding aside. There is a clear message, these people sitting out there arent idiots, they're not "hippies". I dont know if you guys are looking at it, but seriously, they're chanting it all over the place. Whether its paraphrased or not, the message is "Get the money out of politics" plain and simple. Its the tie in of wall street and the white house. It doesnt matter if they're standing infront of wall street, or capitol hill, or boston, or seattle, or Atlanta. The message is the same all over the place. They want they're voices heard. Does anyone know how widespread the civil rights movements were? It was world wide. Their location is irrelevant. Their message is the same

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[Browning151]

The biggest thing that stands out to me in this little "comic" is the "everyone you know drowning in massive debt" comment. Who's fault is it that ANYONE is drowning in "massive debt"? It's not mine, it's not yours, it's not the govts, debt accumulation and the consequences there of are a direct result of personal decision, period. Slice it, dice it, spin it any way that you want but debt is a personal decision. It's not that hard for someone to live within their means or below, although you may have to forgo some luxuries along the way. And before you blame the education costs that are required to get a "good job", there are many people that are smart enough to begin saving from their first job in high school to afford college, or those out there who are willing to work as much as it takes to get through school and better themselves. Why is that acceptable for some, but not all? The whole "free etc.etc.etc. for everyone" is what really gets me about this whole protest, whether it be education, healthcare, minimum wage, living wage etc.etc. Nothing is free for anyone, "what one person receives without working for, someone else must work for without receiving."

[-EnVus-]

Damn i just saw the News tonight on the OWS movements across america. You cannot say they are not hippies or beatnicks they all have that look like the just came off the pineapple express.
I bet if you went within 30 miles of Wallstreet it must smell like ass and balls all around. At least have a better appearance damn ppl all over the world are watching.

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That'll teach that socialist hippie marine

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ical-condition

[Vteckidd]

The cop was wrong, but sorry when they ask you to vacate public property and you refuse to listen, you choose your own fate.

These are the same people who stormed inside a chase bank branch disrupting that business then want to cry wolf when police have itchy trigger fingers? Sorry they incited violence first, they refused to be orderly , they refused to leave when asked politely. Cop should be reprimanded for tossing a smoke grenade into that crowd, but what did you expect was going to happen.

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The cop was wrong, but sorry when they ask you to vacate public property and you refuse to listen, you choose your own fate.

These are the same people who stormed inside a chase bank branch disrupting that business then want to cry wolf when police have itchy trigger fingers? Sorry they incited violence first, they refused to be orderly , they refused to leave when asked politely. Cop should be reprimanded for tossing a smoke grenade into that crowd, but what did you expect was going to happen.

LOL. There you have it folks. When you're peacefully assembling in a public place in accordance with the 1st amendment, you are, in fact, actually inciting violence. Leaving the local police NO CHOICE but to use non lethal ammunition, flashbangs, and smoke grenades. People who actually are employed to protect that amendment are obviously not exempt from this.

[Vteckidd]

LOL. There you have it folks. When you're peacefully assembling in a public place in accordance with the 1st amendment, you are, in fact, actually inciting violence. Leaving the local police NO CHOICE but to use non lethal ammunition, flashbangs, and smoke grenades. People who actually are employed to protect that amendment are obviously not exempt from this.

Now youre just being delusional.

I wonder why the Tea Party never had police show up in riot gear and shoot tear gas..........................

They are occupying PUBLIC PROPERTY which has rules. Its for everyones use. When the cities and mayors got tired of the riff raff damaging, raping, looting, trashing the areas they told them they could protest, but they couldnt SQUAT overnight. The protesters refused to leave. Police took action. PERIOD.

They were PEACEFULLY protesting, they were breaking the law. They stormed inside a place of business and disrupted normal day to day operations. Did you even see the video? Theres no fucking BANK CEO at Chase Bank branch they stormed in! they are too stupid to even realize that. All they did was hurt the $10-15/hr teller that was working there trying to feed their family. You dont do that shit if you are being PEACEFUL.

Go read the reports from the mayors office of both REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT mayors. Reed asked the demostrators to leave after they tried to have a 1000 person concert without a permit and the necessary protection , they had generators that were fire hazards and refused to abide by the cities rules about their use, they had a guy wit han AK47 walking around the camp and refused to give up his weapon (brandishing). So he arrested them.

these people arent interested in peacefulyl protesting. They want to cause trouble and make a scene because they are being funded and pushed by radical left groups who have now been reported as ex ACORN members. They are paying HOMELESS people $10/hr to protest so the numbers are bigger than whats really down there.

So save me the "these are nice people protesting and they got picked on" bullshit. Ive been down there, you havent.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreill...ence-occupiers

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/promo...-tactic/nFLJq/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/occup...uilding/nFMf4/

Since being kicked out of Woodruff Park, members of Occupy Atlanta are trying to figure out what to do next. They are promising to take another big action soon.

On Wednesday night, about 50 protesters marched around a now-closed Woodruff Park, chanting slogans at a dozen or so police officers who stood inside the park and watched.

A smaller group then broke off and headed to the Peachtree/Pine Homeless shelter.

About 100 protesters spent more than two hours in Centennial Olympic park Wednesday night, trying to come up with a plan on where to take the protest in the coming days.

One man said, "I think that we need to be back at the park tonight to demand to be let back in."



"I think that we should consider guerrilla occupations," another man said.
At times, a police helicopter flew overhead, shining a massive spotlight on the crowd, but overall, police officers kept their distance.

The calm came after police moved in on protesters camped out at Woodruff Park early Wednesday morning. More than 50 people were arrested and taken to the Atlanta City Jail. All have since bonded out on signature bonds.

Many of the protesters believe the police action helped their cause.

"Honestly, I think the mayor did damage to his own cause," said Occupy Atlanta spokeswoman Liliana Bakhtiari.

While protestors weren't happy with the police action, Atlanta's Police Chief George Turner praised his officers in an email, writing, "We planned for the worst and prayed for the best. Our officers really did a great job last night."

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...regroup/nFNSd/


Protesting is one thing, squatting and disrupting other peoples right to life , liberty, and the pursuit of happiness deserves to get arrested.

[-EnVus-]

#OccupyToilet....

[Vteckidd]

These are mobs of people refusing to cooperate and are putting peoples safety at risk. The cops acted accordingly. Refuse to disburse , and they will employ anti riot tactics. Which involve tear gas in some cities. FYI the marine wasnt targeted, he was in the crowd they shot the canister into and he happened to get hit. I bet you $1000 he wouldnt have been injured had he left like they asked them to. The video you posted where they threw the canister into the crowd was after he was already injured. And they are instructed to throw the tear gas canisters into groups who are refusing to leave and are congregating. he was doing his job. Although i think he should probably have warned them more, or thrown the canister to the side. but while i feel sorry for his injuries, HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS ACTIONS, and unfortunatley reaped the consequences

[Vteckidd]

Lets get a few things straight............

Protesting is not the same as SQUATTING.
Protesting is not the same as OCCUPYING.
Protesting is not supposed to infringe on other peoples lives/rights. (multiple business people were upset that they could not operate, were losing revenue from these people trashing and destroying the place.)

Look im for everyone to protest. Its their right. I am not for mass chaos, anarchy, etc which is what these people wanted.

They were using PUBLIC property in most cases that the cities were kind enough to allow them to sleep in, squat, etc when normally they would be kicked out. When the conditions got to the point that it was a safety hazard for the people there, the business around, and other people who wanted to use the park, streets, plazas, etc, the citiy officials asked the people to vacate. In MOST cases they were told they could protest during NORMAL operational hours (like in Woodruff park here in atlanta. They just couldnt SLEEP overnight and camp out for weeks on end and destroy the place).

They refused.

They got dealt with.

I dont think the cop who TOSSED the tear gas grenade or flashbank or whatever it was was right. Im not going to question why he did it because i wasnt there. But it looked like it was not necessary. The vet was injured BEFORE that grenade was tossed. he was in the crowd when they fired a tear gas grenade and it hit him in the face. That shit happens. I bet you $1000 it wouldnt have happened had they left, and abided by the rules of law.

I find it extremely disturbing that a group wants to argue that their "rights" are being violated while simultaneously not giving a shit about anyone elses rights.

They should protest, they should speak, they should get their message out, but they should do it legally, in accordance with city and state laws and statutes, and should cooperate with law enforcement when asked.

Barricading themselves into an area they were told to vacate is not cooperating.

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The tea party movement isn't ruffling anyones feathers. They aren't making enough noise. The American population hates them. The government/wall street doesn't like the Occupy movement putting its dirty laundry out in the open, which is what it's doing, and the people are behind it and the government is resisting violently. This is just like what happened during the early 60s(civil rights movements). The people raised a legitimate grievance which was against what the government thought was best and the government resisted violently.

So guess what will eventually happen....

Yeah they did storm that bank, but you're not telling the whole story. Don't cherry pick, it's not good for your argument, and you tend to do it a lot. After the majority of them left, a few willingly stayed behind to clean up the mess, the police then stormed the bank and locked it down and arrested the ones that stayed to help. No tellers making $10-15 an hour were hurt in the process. They still got their paycheck on Friday.

Don't post any videos from Bill O'Reileys show. Lol. You're losing credibility, and I wont click it to give Faux news the page-views. It has been proven that Bill plays a character on TV. The O'Reiley Factor is an OPINION piece and only that. Not to be construed as actual fact.

[Vteckidd]

The tea party movement isn't ruffling anyones feathers. They aren't making enough noise. The American population hates them.

They hate them so much they overwhelming elected Tea party candidates in the 2010 election ousting democratic and GOP establishment incumbents. Yea, youre wrong , strike 1

The government/wall street doesn't like the Occupy movement putting its dirty laundry out in the open, which is what it's doing, and the people are behind it and the government is resisting violently.

yeah Mayor Reed is violently resisting......... Your just trying to twist the argument into what makes you right, which doesnt work for anyone else but people with your warped view of the world.

Police only act when someone is breaking the law. These protestors in every instance, broke the law, or disobeyed direct orders to vacate public land. They get to deal with the consequences.

This is just like what happened during the early 60s(civil rights movements). The people raised a legitimate grievance which was against what the government thought was best and the government resisted violently.

You cannot even begin to compare the civil rights movement with this movement. The Civil Rights movement had a message, it was non violent, it had and agenda, it was morally right. People were brutalized for it in the south. But dont sit on your high horse and compare racial inequality to a bunch of people who want free shit given to them on the backs of the people that they think owe them something.

So guess what will eventually happen....

My guess is that nothing will happen. The people will be put in jail, forced to pay fines, and they wont continue the movement because their movement is flawed. Protesting the banks accomplishes NOTHING. The problem is with washington, and washington wont do anything to change their ways because they are going continue to back the people who are protesting the wrong thing. Its a shadow game.

dont you think its funny Obama is sympathizing with the movement when he took 1 MILLION dollars in campaign donations from Goldman Sachs alone? The very evil corrupt wall street he embraces he now somehow is a man of the OWS movement? Gimme a break.

Yeah they did storm that bank, but you're not telling the whole story. Don't cherry pick, it's not good for your argument, and you tend to do it a lot. After the majority of them left, a few willingly stayed behind to clean up the mess, the police then stormed the bank and locked it down and arrested the ones that stayed to help. No tellers making $10-15 an hour were hurt in the process. They still got their paycheck on Friday.

Oh so the moral of the story is fuck shit up but as long as you clean it up its ok? that was the single worst response you have ever written. You are who you associate with. you cannot disrupt another persons life, business ,etc REGARDLESS if you clean up the shit storm your compatriots started. I want you to go into a bank with a friend, have him trash the place, then you stay behind an clean it up and see what happens.

Don't post any videos from Bill O'Reileys show. Lol. You're losing credibility, and I wont click it to give Faux news the page-views. It has been proven that Bill plays a character on TV. The O'Reiley Factor is an OPINION piece and only that. Not to be construed as actual fact.

yeah and the Huffington post is so newsworthy Oreiley is prob the most center person on the airwaves, its not an opinion, did you even watch the video? How is he making up stuff that wsa videotaped being said?

Hannity is RIGHT , Oreilly is conservative. But he bashes both sides equally and 99% of the time he is right, sorry. Rest of America agrees too since he has the highest rated cable news show for the last 12 years

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They hate them so much they overwhelming elected Tea party candidates in the 2010 election ousting democratic and GOP establishment incumbents. Yea, youre wrong , strike 1

Cite your sources please. This should be good...

yeah Mayor Reed is violently resisting......... Your just trying to twist the argument into what makes you right, which doesnt work for anyone else but people with your warped view of the world.

Police only act when someone is breaking the law. These protestors in every instance, broke the law, or disobeyed direct orders to vacate public land. They get to deal with the consequences.

so now law enforcement is not part of the government? And I'm twisting the story? I'm going off of facts here. The only reason they're breaking the law is because Reed is rescinding their permits. Come on man. Turn off the tv and do some research. It's all there

You cannot even begin to compare the civil rights movement with this movement. The Civil Rights movement had a message, it was non violent, it had and agenda, it was morally right. People were brutalized for it in the south. But dont sit on your high horse and compare racial inequality to a bunch of people who want free shit given to them on the backs of the people that they think owe them something.

Lets see. I'm comparing non-violent protests to non-violent protests, movements which are morally right to movements which are morally right, and racial inequality to financial inequality. So yes. I am comparing the two. I think you need to sit down and read a little bit more on both movements and you'll see the similarities. .

dont you think its funny Obama is sympathizing with the movement when he took 1 MILLION dollars in campaign donations from Goldman Sachs alone? The very evil corrupt wall street he embraces he now somehow is a man of the OWS movement? Gimme a break.

Obamas support of the movement hardly makes him the 'man of the movemnt'

yeah and the Huffington post is so newsworthy Oreiley is prob the most center person on the airwaves, its not an opinion, did you even watch the video? How is he making up stuff that wsa videotaped being said?

Hannity is RIGHT , Oreilly is conservative. But he bashes both sides equally and 99% of the time he is right, sorry. Rest of America agrees too since he has the highest rated cable news show for the last 12 years

having the highest rated cable news show hardly makes him right. It is still an opinion piece and it is not news. Fox even came out and said he wasn't a news piece

[BanginJimmy]

Cite your sources please. This should be good...

How does USA Today work?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ion02_ST_N.htm

The only reason they're breaking the law is because Reed is rescinding their permits. Come on man.

I have been out of the country for the last week so I may be a little out of touch on this.

UGA rescinded the permits to protest, the City did not. From the little I know, the OWS people never had a permit to spend the night in Woodruff Park. Please cite a sourse saying they did have a permit to do so.

Lets see. I'm comparing non-violent protests to non-violent protests, movements which are morally right to movements which are morally right, and racial inequality to financial inequality. So yes. I am comparing the two. I think you need to sit down and read a little bit more on both movements and you'll see the similarities. .

Lets do some comparisons. Civil Rights movement had leaders like MLK who was vocally against any and all violent action. OWS, has Michael Moore saying its not time for violence against the rich, yet.
Moral inequality? Please explain this. Tell me what is morally wrong about working hard and legally attaining money. Now tell me what is morally right about saying I should make a living wage, whether I decide I want to work or not.
Financial inequality? Another one that needs an explanation. Of course not everyone has the money that Bill Gates has. Then again, no one here has half the intelligence and vision he had. If you did, you could create a computer operating system that dominates the market.

having the highest rated cable news show hardly makes him right. It is still an opinion piece and it is not news. Fox even came out and said he wasn't a news piece

Of course its an opinion piece. Its never been advertised as anything BUT an opinion show. That doesnt mean that he isnt reporting on real news, THEN giving his, and the opinons of his guests, airtime.

[Browning151]

I have been out of the country for the last week so I may be a little out of touch on this.

UGA rescinded the permits to protest, the City did not. From the little I know, the OWS people never had a permit to spend the night in Woodruff Park. Please cite a sourse saying they did have a permit to do so.

Reed extended his executive order to allow them to stay in Woodruff until Nov. 7, but then sent in police to remove the protesters, after they had already cost the city about $300k. By far doesn't give them any reason to go out and break the law. I think he made the right decision. There's nothing wrong with protesting, but living in a public park is a whole other story. He basically cut them off because he felt they were headed toward getting out of hand.

The mayor said an unauthorized hip-hop concert that created a "dangerous situation" was the reason, adding some people associated with the movement "were on a clear path to escalation."

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/occu...t-1209963.html