Mr. President

[bu villain]

Discount every one of those 150mil+ people that make more than 150% of welfare. That likely discounts around 90% of them. The rest of it is motivation. Some people are willing to work hard to gain a higher station in life. Others are happy to just live off the system.

I'm not sure why you would discount the motivation for people making 150% of welfare. And what do you mean the rest of it is motivation? Are you saying that what motivates those people couldn't motivate those on welfare?

I agree with your last two statements but I'm not sure what conclusion you want me to reach from it.

This is easy.

1. Require random drug tests to get a check.
2. Require eligible men and women join the military (does not apply to single mothers or fathers)
3. Spend the money up front and pay those receiving welfare money go to school or some other type of job training. Govt pays, or guarantees, 100% of bills for 4 years of college. This can be waived to 5 years if acceptable progress is made.
4. Cap length of time you can be on welfare. This does not apply to those also receiving disability benefits.

The college part would be expensive in the short term, but in the long term I believe it would pay for itself in the form of combined higher tax revenue and lower rolls. The vast majority of those on welfare right now are 2nd and third generation. We, as a society, need to break that cycel of dependence.

While I think these are good ideas in theory they all have a number of challenges and several would be cost prohibitive. I'm surprised to hear you would recommend the government just giving people jobs (supposedly government can't create jobs anyways) and creating additional beauracracy.

Also, and this is the crux of the matter, quite a few people would not meet these standards. They would fail their drug test, find college to be too difficult, fail basic training, etc. What do you think would happen to these people?

If you came upon a starving man on the street, would you require him to take a drug test and enroll in college before you gave him something to eat? We house, cloth, give healthcare and feed inmates 24/7, 365 days a year usually at a cost of tens of thousands per person per year. Should we treat the lazy, unfortunate, and stupid worse than them?

[-EnVus-]

If you came upon a starving man on the street, would you require him to take a drug test and enroll in college before you gave him something to eat? We house, cloth, give healthcare and feed inmates 24/7, 365 days a year usually at a cost of tens of thousands per person per year. Should we treat the lazy, unfortunate, and stupid worse than them?

On that note i was watching a program on tv just lastnight about how much we are spending on inmates these days. I knew it was a lot but i was shocked at how much.
I say the /government should look into this more with a fine tooth comb then raising taxes so much. IMO we could crack down more on sending illegals back to mexico and use prisoners for the slack in work detail the immigrants did then charge a small fee for housing and board for prisons. This way work gets done and we make a profit at same time.

[BanginJimmy]

I'm not sure why you would discount the motivation for people making 150% of welfare.

If you make 150% or more of welfare, the work then becomes 'profitable' whereas someone making just over what welfare pay has nothing to gain from working.

And what do you mean the rest of it is motivation? Are you saying that what motivates those people couldn't motivate those on welfare?

The remaining 10% of people it comes down to their motivation. Do they want to sit on the welfare rolls their entire life, or are they willing to do the grunt work and over time gain more 'profitable' employment.

I agree with your last two statements but I'm not sure what conclusion you want me to reach from it.

For those on welfare, in most cases it is their motivation to get off welfare that sets them apart from others. Those that work to get off welfare are who the system was designed for, not the ones that use welfare as a job.

While I think these are good ideas in theory they all have a number of challenges and several would be cost prohibitive.

I agree it would take a massive commitment but IMO it would be worth it over time.

I'm surprised to hear you would recommend the government just giving people jobs (supposedly government can't create jobs anyways) and creating additional beauracracy.

Where did I say that?

They would fail their drug test,

That is their problem. If you have the money to purchase drugs, then you obviously dont need taxpayer money to pay your bills.

find college to be too difficult,

this is why I mention other job training programs. I understand that not everyone is college material, but there are plenty of community colleges that offer a variety of programs that focus only on job specific tasks.

fail basic training, etc.

ANY able bodied man or woman in the US can get through basic training for their chosen service.

What do you think would happen to these people?

As with everything else, you have to take it on a case by case basis. If you CHOOSE to do drugs, CHOOSE to flunk out of college, or CHOOSE to flunk out of basic training, then you reap the rewards of your choices. Welfare programs were designed to be a temporary safety net, not the career path those programs have become.

If you came upon a starving man on the street, would you require him to take a drug test and enroll in college before you gave him something to eat?

A man on the street and a welfare sponge are 2 different things. There are MANY soup kitchens and homeless shelters for those that choose to go to them.

We house, cloth, give healthcare and feed inmates 24/7, 365 days a year usually at a cost of tens of thousands per person per year.

This is what I love about Sheriff Arpiao out in Arizona. He keeps his prisoners in conditions that are barely above state and federal requirements. They work on chain gangs, the only TV they get is 'G' movies and the weather channel. They get to wear pink clothes. Oh, and his system has saved millions a year just in feeding the prisoners. The estimates, confirmed by snopes, is $.40 a meal. Maybe if we can get more of these types of prisons started we could really see some savings.

Oh, my favorite part. The Sheriff's Office started a shelter for abused animals at a condemned jail. Those animals have soft bedding and air conditioning while the prisoners have cots with no pillow and no AC.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/arpaio.asp

Should we treat the lazy, unfortunate, and stupid worse than them?

Not worse, but if you choose to not take care of yourself, why should I take care of you?

[ahabion]

...if you choose to not take care of yourself, why should I take care of you?

PREACH Preachah!!!

I'm a product of the system and it's a shame that second and third generation welfare kids even exist. What's worse is that there is no aspiration of hope. Hope and Change! They saw the vision but decided that welfare was better... D'oh!

[bu villain]

If you make 150% or more of welfare, the work then becomes 'profitable' whereas someone making just over what welfare pay has nothing to gain from working....

The motivation is the same as people who work free internships. Better to start climbing the ladder at the bottom than not at all. Anyways, we are getting a little off the focus here. Every person has different motivations and no system will convince everyone to work hard, and be upstanding productive citizens.

Where did I say that?

You said they should be forced to join the military which is being given a job by the government. You also advocated drug testing and school/training assistance. That will require additional beauracry to administer.

If you CHOOSE to do drugs, CHOOSE to flunk out of college, or CHOOSE to flunk out of basic training, then you reap the rewards of your choices. Welfare programs were designed to be a temporary safety net, not the career path those programs have become.

Except that we all reap the "rewards", not just the individual. What happens to the kids of those who CHOOSE to do drugs? How do you expect them to grow up any better? How many more people would get robbed and killed on the street if we didn't have a welfare system? What is an acceptable ratio of leechers to deserving people? I won't claim to know all the answers but I know how we handle it affects us all (some more than others).

A man on the street and a welfare sponge are 2 different things. There are MANY soup kitchens and homeless shelters for those that choose to go to them.

Many of those "welfare sponges" would simply become men on the street if you took away their welfare. There wouldn't be anywhere near enough homeless shelters and soup kitchens if we stopped all welfare tomorrow.

Not worse, but if you choose to not take care of yourself, why should I take care of you?

So I won't rob someone. But seriously, we do treat them worse, that's my point. Maybe you personally have railed against how much we spend on prisoners but in general the cry is a hell of a lot louder for how much welfare recepients receive than how much prisoners get. The reality is people are afraid of criminals so they are willing to pay to keep them away but people aren't afraid of welfare recipients.