So Let's See What Happens

[blaknoize]

So to some I may be wrong in my view of this whole healthcare thing. I believe it should be provided to all, at a fair price because its life. It is a common sense argument because you cant always PLAN for your accidents or your aliments. A business model that is designed to make a profit will always try its hardest to turn a profit, in this case by not providing necessary care to those most in need or those who cost "more" than deemed medically practical.

I always get ran thru the mud on this view of mine because I am from the "unhealthiest metropolitan area" in America, although they seem to state just obesity, my teeth speak of what bad water can do to you and the industry in the area has crippled so many. WIKILINKY

[BanginJimmy]

So to some I may be wrong in my view of this whole healthcare thing. I believe it should be provided to all, at a fair price because its life. It is a common sense argument because you cant always PLAN for your accidents or your aliments. A business model that is designed to make a profit will always try its hardest to turn a profit, in this case by not providing necessary care to those most in need or those who cost "more" than deemed medically practical.

Here is the problem with your "solution" to the problem. Every country that is using a socialized health model is also limiting those they care for and what they treat because costs far exceed what they bring in through taxes and premiums. On top of that are the lower quality of care, less medical innovation, and longer wait times for care, especially specialist care that are common is all of these models.

In the US we use capitalism and the power of choice to demand better care and it works. You dont like your doc, go find another one. Dont like the way you are treated by your insurance company, move on to a different one. In Norway, for example, if you dont like your insurance company, too bad, thats all you get. In Canada, if you dont like your insurance company, too bad, and if you go somewhere else you can be fined for it.

[blaknoize]

In the US we use capitalism and the power of choice to demand better care and it works. You dont like your doc, go find another one. Dont like the way you are treated by your insurance company, move on to a different one. In Norway, for example, if you dont like your insurance company, too bad, thats all you get. In Canada, if you dont like your insurance company, too bad, and if you go somewhere else you can be fined for it.

How can you even say that about another country and its people though, have u BEEN to Canada for your needs, have u BEEN to Norway or The UK or France? My "solution" is already in practice and given the numbers and the overall longevity of the people whom use that form of healthcare and arent shackled with debt, I believe fully that it works well. This current capitalist approach to healthcare is completely incorrect. There may be an "insurance" as you say over there however, I believe that to be incorrect in itself. Its a practice called solidarity, each person has and will continue to help one another in their greatest time of need. They understand this because, unlike America and TV, they KNOW they will eventually need help and KNOW they arent likely to afford the brunt of skyrocketing prices like we have here in America. So instead, they have a system set to help all and it will hopefully remain that way.

You ignored my run down of a capitalist business model in generic form about our current system here. If healthcare is a business, owned by businessmen and women, the business must be profitable so their may be the GOOD instances where care is given to a particular person and its all over our news as "American Health Care is rated whatever." Thats all well and dandy but when you come down hard with something and cant afford it and your company drops u, who will come to ur rescue? In social world, WE have your back and the government owns the business so it will never be broke and have to worry about turning a profit, the doctors are paid by us and have great equipment and great education and a passion for their work.

I've needed my crown replaced in my mouth for the past 3yrs yet I havent gone to a dentist because that crown alone will cost me $800 plus the work needed to my other 3 missing teeth and all pitted ones. You know why I havent? I CANT FUKIN AFFORD IT, I've been quoted in the 3k plus range, not even counting the initial scan and so forth. So u kno what I'ma do? I'll go overseas, get that work done and tell yall all about it. Tell u how little time I spent in the waiting room and bring back my meager bill, if any and rub it all in ur face. My cousin just so happen to not need any care while abroad so I cant use his trip for a basis of this argument.

IDK bout u Jimmy or even David, you guys are in ur 30's, you two must of dodged everything health related and are just as healthy as possible. Great teeth, good vision, strong bones, no family histories of cancer or diabetes or anything for that matter to talk down on this. Its not even an idea I just came up with on my own, it is in practice. Also, those over their aren't scared to tell their government what to do, if they didnt like their current system and the way it was ran, it would be handled. They protest and those in Parliament and in Power understand that they better do work or suffer removal from their role. Americans are scared to speak out and just agree with what is told to them.

[David88vert]

IDK bout u Jimmy or even David, you guys are in ur 30's, you two must of dodged everything health related and are just as healthy as possible. Great teeth, good vision, strong bones, no family histories of cancer or diabetes or anything for that matter to talk down on this. Its not even an idea I just came up with on my own, it is in practice. Also, those over their aren't scared to tell their government what to do, if they didnt like their current system and the way it was ran, it would be handled. They protest and those in Parliament and in Power understand that they better do work or suffer removal from their role. Americans are scared to speak out and just agree with what is told to them.

First, I actually have been overseas to several countries. I have friends from around the world also, and have discussed various healthcare systems with those who have had to live with it for most of their lives as well. There are good points and bad points to every healthcare system.

I have been healthy all of my life, and have health insurance. I have paid my dental and vision out of my pocket though, and it has been much cheaper than if I had paid for it through taxes or insurance.

The key to insurance is to understand what it is for. It is not a maintenance payment to cover every little cost - it is a payment to cover major medical high-cost issues. Insurance should not be used to cover a regular checkup - that should be paid out of pocket.
If your car needs an oil change, do you call your auto insurance company and expect them to pay for it? If you need new windshield wipers, do you submit an insurance claim? The problem that I see with your idea of socialized healthcare is that it is not realistic in controlling its costs - in order to be affordable, only major costs should be covered under a plan, and the rest should be out-of-pocket, if you want a system that can work.

[bu villain]

I know this is just an anecdote but I lived in a country with socialized healthcare for a while. My wife went in for things I would never dream of going in for (stomach ache, simple fever, etc). She would go during her lunch break sometimes and waiting was never an issue and it was all free. As a foreigner, I wasn't covered under the government and yet I paid less than I would have had to pay here with my corporate health insurance plan. It seems clear to me that the cost of healthcare is a bigger problem than whether it is private or government controlled.

[David88vert]

I know this is just an anecdote but I lived in a country with socialized healthcare for a while. My wife went in for things I would never dream of going in for (stomach ache, simple fever, etc). She would go during her lunch break sometimes and waiting was never an issue and it was all free. As a foreigner, I wasn't covered under the government and yet I paid less than I would have had to pay here with my corporate health insurance plan. It seems clear to me that the cost of healthcare is a bigger problem than whether it is private or government controlled.

I agree 100% with that statement. Cost is the biggest issue.

[blaknoize]

I know this is just an anecdote but I lived in a country with socialized healthcare for a while. My wife went in for things I would never dream of going in for (stomach ache, simple fever, etc). She would go during her lunch break sometimes and waiting was never an issue and it was all free. As a foreigner, I wasn't covered under the government and yet I paid less than I would have had to pay here with my corporate health insurance plan. It seems clear to me that the cost of healthcare is a bigger problem than whether it is private or government controlled.

It was all free... in a sense as its not all up front. That is the point of all this debate and arguing. I could care less who or what gets help from my tax $$, your alive and well. Not suffering only because u cant afford the care. To me, it doesnt matter. Through all the #'s and all the statistics... why does it matter? When you need help, you get it, simple as that, then continue on till the next time you need it or not at all.

Help your friends help their friends, your neighbors help their neighbors and their neighbors friends. You alive, your suffering, get the help and go on with life. Shut up with all the cost this and cost that.

[David88vert]

It was all free... in a sense as its not all up front. That is the point of all this debate and arguing. I could care less who or what gets help from my tax $$, your alive and well. Not suffering only because u cant afford the care. To me, it doesnt matter. Through all the #'s and all the statistics... why does it matter? When you need help, you get it, simple as that, then continue on till the next time you need it or not at all.

Help your friends help their friends, your neighbors help their neighbors and their neighbors friends. You alive, your suffering, get the help and go on with life. Shut up with all the cost this and cost that.

Why don't you go ahead and send the government another 10% of your pay to get us started? Go ahead, cut the check today for 2010 and send it in.

[bu villain]

It was all free... in a sense as its not all up front. That is the point of all this debate and arguing. I could care less who or what gets help from my tax $$, your alive and well. Not suffering only because u cant afford the care. To me, it doesnt matter. Through all the #'s and all the statistics... why does it matter? When you need help, you get it, simple as that, then continue on till the next time you need it or not at all.

Help your friends help their friends, your neighbors help their neighbors and their neighbors friends. You alive, your suffering, get the help and go on with life. Shut up with all the cost this and cost that.

Unfortunately it's not that simple. Whether you like it or not, doctors have to get paid, hospitals need operating income, cutting edge technology, research and treatment is expensive. We do not have unlimited resources. The goal should be how to get the best care for as many people as possible with the resources we have. That is anything but simple.

[bafbrian]

Here is the problem with your "solution" to the problem. Every country that is using a socialized health model is also limiting those they care for and what they treat because costs far exceed what they bring in through taxes and premiums. On top of that are the lower quality of care, less medical innovation, and longer wait times for care, especially specialist care that are common is all of these models.

In the US we use capitalism and the power of choice to demand better care and it works. You dont like your doc, go find another one. Dont like the way you are treated by your insurance company, move on to a different one. In Norway, for example, if you dont like your insurance company, too bad, thats all you get. In Canada, if you dont like your insurance company, too bad, and if you go somewhere else you can be fined for it.

Uh, we don't do use pure capitalism in this country, I think that is evident given the current economic climate. The current Health Insurance system is broken. The way the system works is, you either have the money to purchase health insurance or not. In this country, if you cannot afford health insurance, then its too bad. That is the problem. If I have would opted to purchase health insurance when I turned 18, I would of had to sacrifice my own livelihood (housing and bills) just to maintain it.

It is not as simple as, try one insurance company and if you don't like it, switch. That option is not always available, more common in rural areas. More common is that one insurance company has a monopoly on an area and you don't have a choice. Giving companies the opportunity to sell insurance across state lines and increase competition would help reduce costs. Unfortunately, even with more competition, it doesn't guarantee that everyone will be able to afford health insurance. What about those who still couldn't afford it? Does we just tell them "good luck"?