Mosque 2 blocks from Ground Zero

[BanginJimmy]

You are attempting to judge a religion by the actions of a handful of extremists. Suppose I judged all Christians by the actions of Timothy McVeigh or Eric Robert Rudolph or David Koresh (all Christians). Should I protest that we not allow X-ian churches near the Murrah building, Centennial Olympic park, or Waco TX?

Why dont you point out where these people were treated as national heros. There is a VAST difference between a terrorist or extremist born here and a terrorist or extremist treated as a hero.

What do you think my view of Christianity would be if my only info on it came from what I read about Fred Phelps?

Considering the fact that I believe religion as a whole is a very dangerous thing nothing, no matter how extreme, would surprise me. Not from Islam, Christianity, or Buddhism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...administration

[article]
But such characterizations don't square with the project's mission — or the career of its spiritual leader, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. (Rauf heads up the Cordoba Initiative, the organization sponsoring the center.) Rauf was considered moderate enough during the Bush years to lecture FBI agents about Islam. And he is targeted on theological grounds by the same militant Islamists that mosque opponents claim he represents.

Rauf was sent by the State Department on several speaking tours in the Middle East under President George W. Bush, the Huffington Post's Sam Stein reports. He also attended a U.S.-Islamic World Forum with close Bush adviser and then-Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes. (Hughes has so far not commented on Rauf and his project, though another former Bush adviser, Michael Gerson, wrote in the Washington Post that "a mosque that rejects radicalism is not a symbol of the enemy's victory; it is a prerequisite for our own.") Right now, Rauf is on another goodwill tour in the Middle East sponsored by the State Department, where he will talk about religious tolerance in the United States.

In 2003, the Kuwaiti-born Rauf was called on to speak about Islam to FBI agents, Stein reports. He is currently an adviser to the Interfaith Center of New York, which has come out in support of his plan to build the Islamic center, which Rauf says will be open to people of all faiths.

New York Times contributor William Dalrymple noted in an op-ed this week that Rauf represents a peaceful, mystical sect of Islam called Sufism. Sufi mosques are often attacked by more radical Muslims in the Middle East who oppose its pluralistic teachings, as well as the Sufi practice of permitting a wider public role for women in religious worship. Dalrymple points out that "in the eyes of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban, [Rauf] is an infidel-loving, grave-worshiping apostate; they no doubt regard him as a legitimate target for assassination."
[/article]

Looks like the "radical ties" the Imam has lead right to George W. Bush and the FBI. The Imam is also from an opposing sect of Islam than O.B.L and Al Qaeda. He is a Sufi and they are Wahabbi's.

I can only go by the quotes I have heard and I find that he was nothing more than an islamic cleric. He's an anti semite and agrees with sharia law being enforced here. I dont care what Bush did. In case you havent heard yet, Bush isnt in DC anymore. Someone else is squatting in the oval office now.


I am also not buying the spin that he "supports Hamas". It seems to me like he is saying the HE, as an American Muslim, should not have to answer for what Hamas says or does.[/quote]

You can take it that way and I must admit, his quote can easily fall either way. The Cordoba Institute seems that have to elaborate for him fairly often though to come more to the middle. He seems to speak out of both sides of his mouth fairly often though depending on his audience. He will say that terrorism is unislamic, then come right back and say the US was an accessory in 9/11.

The funny thing about this is that there has been a mosque in that area even before the WTC opened for business. Its at 20 Warren St. which is 2 blocks away from the WTC site and the mosque opened in 1970, several months before the WTC.

And their has never been an issue with it, which adds credence to the ideas that this mosque is a tribute to the 9/11 hijackers.

I'm not going to both doing the research, but if they can prove that the mosque on warren St. is too small for its current congregation then maybe it would calm things little.

The Right needs to face it that Muslims (and therefore Islam) are going to be here permanently, and they are just as American as you or me. Does it occur to any of you that most Muslims come to America to escape things like Hamas, Sharia Law, etc?

And you were doing so good, but now you are back to the mindless rhetoric. The "right" hasnt said anything about kicking muslims out or anything like that. What I do find funny is how hard you lefties work to get rid of christianity everywhere you see it, yet you posture equally hard for the rights of muslims. Isnt 1 religion equal to another in this country?

[Total_Blender]

Why dont you point out where these people were treated as national heros. There is a VAST difference between a terrorist or extremist born here and a terrorist or extremist treated as a hero. ?

Fugitive Eric Robert Rudolph was aided and abetted for YEARS by his supporters.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Teror_92/4264_72.htm

[article]
"What some hatemongers and extremists are saying is, this person is a hero whose crusade against abortion and the government is noble and praiseworthy," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "What is even more troubling is that some of the chatter is calling for violence or lone-wolf acts to be carried out in Rudolph's name. Others are using the arrest as an excuse to spread twisted conspiracy theories about Jews. As we have seen in the past, this can be a dangerous mix." [/article]

You might say that the people who applaud these guys as "heroes" are on the lunatic fringe and aren't really relevant to, or representative of, mainstream American Christianity. And you'd be right, for the most part. Most X-ians are not extremists. Not all X-ians agree with each other, there are sects that with varied practices and varied degrees of orthodoxy.

And neither are Osama, Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc relevant to or representative of the entire religion of Islam. They are the lunatic fringe of that religion just as Rudolph is the lunatic fringe of Christianity. Most all Muslim Americans have denounced terrorism, continuously since 9/11. Sending the message to Muslims that "we don't want you here" or "your practice of your religion is disrespectful to me" will push Muslims in the US more in the direction of radicalism because it will validate all the anti-American propaganda coming from the terrorists.

You say the OK City attacks were not religiously motivated, but what about Eric Robert Rudolph's bombing the Olympics? That had EVERYTHING to do with religion. He even signed the letters claiming responsibility for his bombings with the phrase "Army of God":

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/31/rud...ile/index.html

[article]Rudolph and his family were connected with the Christian Identity movement, a militant, racist and anti-Semitic organization that believes whites are God's chosen people.

Rudolph's mother, Patricia, spent time with Nord Davis, a Christian Identity ideologue who built a walled compound called Northpoint in the Nantahala community. Davis wrote propaganda decrying a "New World Order" that he claimed was controlled by Jews, and he advocated killing gays and those who engaged in mixed-race relationships. [/article]

So suppose some moderate X-ian sect that repeatedly denounced Rudolph and advocated tolerance wanted to build a church near Centennial Olympic park. Would you be outraged about that?

[BanginJimmy]

Fugitive Eric Robert Rudolph was aided and abetted for YEARS by his supporters.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Teror_92/4264_72.htm

[article]
"What some hatemongers and extremists are saying is, this person is a hero whose crusade against abortion and the government is noble and praiseworthy," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "What is even more troubling is that some of the chatter is calling for violence or lone-wolf acts to be carried out in Rudolph's name. Others are using the arrest as an excuse to spread twisted conspiracy theories about Jews. As we have seen in the past, this can be a dangerous mix." [/article]



You might say that the people who applaud these guys as "heroes" are on the lunatic fringe and aren't really relevant to, or representative of, mainstream American Christianity. And you'd be right, for the most part. Most X-ians are not extremists. Not all X-ians agree with each other, there are sects that with varied practices and varied degrees of orthodoxy.

And neither are Osama, Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc relevant to or representative of the entire religion of Islam. They are the lunatic fringe of that religion just as Rudolph is the lunatic fringe of Christianity. Most all Muslim Americans have denounced terrorism, continuously since 9/11. Sending the message to Muslims that "we don't want you here" or "your practice of your religion is disrespectful to me" will push Muslims in the US more in the direction of radicalism because it will validate all the anti-American propaganda coming from the terrorists.

You say the OK City attacks were not religiously motivated, but what about Eric Robert Rudolph's bombing the Olympics? That had EVERYTHING to do with religion. He even signed the letters claiming responsibility for his bombings with the phrase "Army of God":

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/31/rud...ile/index.html

[article]Rudolph and his family were connected with the Christian Identity movement, a militant, racist and anti-Semitic organization that believes whites are God's chosen people.

Rudolph's mother, Patricia, spent time with Nord Davis, a Christian Identity ideologue who built a walled compound called Northpoint in the Nantahala community. Davis wrote propaganda decrying a "New World Order" that he claimed was controlled by Jews, and he advocated killing gays and those who engaged in mixed-race relationships. [/article]

So suppose some moderate X-ian sect that repeatedly denounced Rudolph and advocated tolerance wanted to build a church near Centennial Olympic park. Would you be outraged about that?

You want to compare neo nazi's response to Rudolph to the Libyan President meeting and hugging al Megrahi? Is that really as good as you can find?