Arizona governor passes SB1070 law.....
I want to know what people think about it.
I myself come from parents who were once Illegal Immigrants. This law doesn't effect me or anyone in my family but It's like treating a human like a dog IMO.
I write about this topic because I don't understand what's with all this new Immigration laws. With that being said, feel free to express yourself(s).
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Need more info on the law. Later, QD.
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I think it's being blown way out of proportion. The law as I understand it states that an officer can ceck with fed authorities about immigration status ONLY IF the person has been stopped for another crime. They cannot just walk up to random people and ask for "papers"
as far as the profiling argument goes, I'm sorry but Arizona has a huge Mexican illegal immigration problem, common sense tells you that most of the illegals are Latino, and most of the people they prob ask about are going to be Latino it's simple statistics.
If they are a citizen, then you have nothing to worry about IMO comply and move on
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If this is true, what's the problem? I have no problem with people from less fortunate circumstances/areas/opportunities come to America to take advantage of a great nation. Even at it's weakest moments, we are still the greatest place to live.Originally Posted by Vteckidd
I don't think it's fair for people to come over here and pretend to be Americans and take advantage of what America has to offer while the real Americans have to pay their dues (taxes, etc). If you're going to come here, do it 100% and not half-assed.
Why would anyone want to live their life always looking over their shoulder waiting for something to happen that could get them "discovered?" Fearing that your next traffic stop could be your last in the USA. Every second, wondering if this will be your last day here. Too many lives are lost due to illegal immigrants fleeing from police (usually from minor, harmless traffic stops) because they are scared of being caught here illegally and not wanting to be deported. So they run and kill another.
Just senseless, useless and completely avoidable situations. Later, QD.
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So the Right says its wrong for the census forms to have questions about race, yet when a bill comes up that says law enforcement can ask for proof of citizenship based on the suspicion of looking "foreign," they are perfectly OK with it? If I were a Latino I'd be pissed off because the bill would basically require you to carry your citizenship stuff on you at all times, when that sort of stuff should be kept in a fire-proof safe in your own home, or a safe-deposit box.
The bill also includes "birther" provisions... just seems like more of the usual GOP trying to maintain the "White/Christian" image of America.
Common sense would tell me that your citizenship would be stored in a national database to be accessed by LEOs to check. Later, QD.
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How do humans differ from dogs? Philosophically speaking of course. The only difference is our ability to think, and therefore think we are somehow special in relation to any other animal on the earth.
Food for thought.
This is starting to sound like a broken record from many, who have never had to go through the process.
It is not as easy as you think.
Maybe an overhaul of the entire process needs to be worked on. But perhaps I am asking too much....
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Actually, I'm fully aware that it is difficult to become a citizen of this country.
It's also very difficult to buy a Lamborghini, that's doesn't mean it's okay to steal one.
When I think about this issue, I'm not thinking about my right to not have to deal with undesirables parading around my streets. I'm considering the thousands of legal immigrants who are investing their time and effort into becoming legalized citizens, while some border hopper gets in scot-free.
Dude, your analogy makes NO SENSE at all. It is not difficult AT ALL to buy a Lamborghini. All you need is money. It is STILL DIFFICULT to become a legal Citizen or LPR in the USA EVEN you have money. You can't compare economic ability vs. government bureaucracy. Two different things.
But I agree on this: I'm considering the thousands of legal immigrants who are investing their time and effort into becoming legalized citizens, while some border hopper gets in scot-free.
Unfortunately, we are not making the legal process any easier. Hence why hopping the border is the 'easier' way. ( It is not right, I know. I am all for a guarded fence, believe me....but if we are tackling one side, we need to improve the other side as well).
But I agree on this:
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Humans have rights. Dogs don't. (Theoretically speaking).
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
We have rights only because we say we do. Why don't dogs get rights? What makes us any more special than them? And why when one human kills another its called murder but when animals in the wild kill each other it's just considered nature.
P.S. I'm only posting this because I feel like talking philosophy, if this is unwarranted please tell me to GTFO.
Because dogs cannot talk and eat their own feces. Furthermore, if they aren't fed by a human they would die.We have rights only because we say we do. Why don't dogs get rights? What makes us any more special than them? And why when one human kills another its called murder but when animals in the wild kill each other it's just considered nature.
P.S. I'm only posting this because I feel like talking philosophy, if this is unwarranted please tell me to GTFO.
/philosophy.
You must be a liberal arts major.
Business major.
If dogs would die without humans feeding them, then how do you explain wolves? I mean, obviously your pet dog would die, but that's because his whole life he has only known 1 world.. One where you feed him his food daily lol
We have rights only because we say we do. Why don't dogs get rights? What makes us any more special than them? And why when one human kills another its called murder but when animals in the wild kill each other it's just considered nature.
P.S. I'm only posting this because I feel like talking philosophy, if this is unwarranted please tell me to GTFO.
'Cause we are the dominant species. And I must retract. Dogs do have rights. Animal rights. But not to the level of humans. Our rights go above that of the dog.
And the killing is that Dogs don't have to abide by 'laws'. In that sense, they have more freedom than us.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
I do not have a problem with People who have come to U.S The legal way! I do have a problem with people Who cross illegaly and think they have rights here! I do have a problem with children born here to illegal aliens being considered u.s Citzens! The news And a lot of hispanics have made this a racial issue it is not I would feel the same way if it was white canadians coming from canada illegaly! Let me ask the op this question what would happen to me if I were caught in mexico and a illegal? Yea they would lock my ass up and deport my ass! I think the u.s has been very tollerant considering the situation. There are other nations with mine fields around there borders.
Hella stock member!
yes but you have to think that the people who are trying to become citizens here were illigal too at one point of time.
i also think it is a waste of money to put up all this security and sending poeple back to other countries when the truth is that they will prob be back over in a few weeks. that money could go towards something else
Entirely false. They could have become residents first via many ways, i.e. marriage, work / sponsorship, family / sponsorship etc.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
It's good to know someone gets it.
You all say that we suffer from illegal immigration, but really the use of illegal labor is keeping costs down. Imagine the added expense of building houses or running restaurants if all of a sudden the managers are forced to hire citizens and pay them a respectable wage. So it works both ways.
Also, any amount of added security will not stop people from getting in. As long as there are unscrupulous employers willing to hire illegals, they are going to keep coming, they will just find more creative ways of getting in. In addition to adding security at the border, we should also bust the people who hire illegals. When these people can operate in broad daylight recruiting illegal workers at the Home Depots, something is severely fucked.
Not to be outright disrespectful toward Conservatives (Or Neo Conservatives? anyway..) but to give off the impression like they are the party of common sense they sure are fucking up the analysis of immigration reform. Immigration is an economic problem, not a national security problem. You do not keep illegal immigrants out by spending endless amounts of money on a wall or "locking down" borders, you remove the incentive for illegal immigrants to come here, and their reasons are purely economic. Deal with the employers who are hiring them and remove the cushion that is the draw to the U.S for non citizens. It also requires a much larger effort in dealing with the countries that supply the bulk of illegal immigrants.
Asking for papers isn't going to do much. Send em back and they'll come back with a greater knowledge of how to get around the system. What are we going to do, shut down every state and build walls at every state line? Common sense..
you do make excellent points and i agree 100%. The problem IMO is national security though i mean i cant believe Al Qaeda hasnt figured out the only thing they have to do is jump the mexican border to get in. Doesnt that play some factor in all this too?
Imagine if 12 million jobs were available because the illegals were deported tomorrow? wonder what that would do to the unemployment rate. But Blender is right it would drive the costs of the product/service the illegal was doing to go up. Would that really help anything? Or would it shift a market back to where it is supposed to be?
I could go into pages of economics debates about this but wont for fear of boring others.
You all make great points, but IMO at the hearts of the matter they came in the country ILLEGALLY , period. This is a way to make Arizona FORCE the feds to do SOMETHING about the border they are neglecting. nothing more and nothing less.
RACE has NOTHING to do with this and i think the only people making it racial are democrats trying to stir up their base (left wing dems of course)
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I have never understood why people can't understand "illegal", seems pretty self explanatory to me. Most people have absolutely no problem with someone coming to the US to be a citizen, it's the illegal aspect that gets people pissed off. Since when is "its too hard" an excuse to do something illegally?
I love illegal latinos, I don't want them to go anywhere!
I get my grass cut by one every week for like $20, and it's a pretty big yard.
And they installed hardwood floors for like $300 dollars...chits a good deal, Home Depot wanted like $1,000
THIS IS PART OF WHATS WRONG WITH AMERICA!
Hella stock member!
what? There is nothing wrong with undercutting the competition...offering a great deal because they circumventing those pesky tax laws, and having absolutely no medical because all of them are uninsured along with their work, and they only accept cash so I can't build my credit by putting it on a credit card.
but ohhh well, now i'm breakdancing on hardwood floors and my doggy has a fenced yard = )
Next on the list is marble countertops and a tiled kitchen floor
it's gunna be big baller son! "baller on a budget" these fuggers are cheap...
I don't think that trying to enforce immigration law is the problem. The problem is how it's done. What does it mean to be under suspicion of being illegal? It's too vague and many people worry that it will translate into: if you look hispanic or don't speak english well enough, you will be detained longer than an "American" looking person so they can verify you are here legally
Simply put, this means there is a great potential for US Citizens and Legal Aliens to be treated differently based on their heritage/looks. Many people feel that is unfair. If the law required all people to be checked it would be fair but that's not how the law is written.
^^^^^ THIS, is what I was talking about. Nail, meet hammer. Right on the head. +reps for you.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
there are animal cruelty rights laws...dogs do have a certain level of rights.
I know you can't fuck them, not that I have tried or really thought about it much short of a jar of peanut butter and a sidelong glance at my ball sack....
I shall interject with some reasonable thoughts, expressed in real terms not politically correct ones, as its obvious that pretty much everyone that commented here hasnt even looked at the law.
1. Profiling works. I dont care if it isnt politically correct to admit it, but EVERYONE does it. If you are looking for a terrorist, 99.99% of the time, it isnt going to be the balding white guy driving around with his family, its going to be the young middle eastern walking around alone. If you are looking for illegals on the US-Mexico border, I would say to start with the hispanics that dont speak english. Its just common sense, nothing sinister.
2. Any kind of immigration reform is absolutely useless until the border is locked down. Reagan proved that in the 80's with his amnesty.
3. If "hispanic leaders" dont like this kind of law, too bad. If they really wanted to lead, they could lead the fight against illegals, not help them commit their crimes. Turn in Coyotes to ICE. Help ICE identify and close down smuggling routes for people and drugs. These things would go a hell of a lot further to helping out the population they are claiming to lead than actively encouraging people to become criminals.
4. A law is a law. Coming into this country illegally is a violation of the law. It really is that easy. There is no valid excuse for it, and IMO it should be treated like any other law. If someone is renting a house to an illegal, charge them with conspiracy and seize their assets. Someone wants to give them a job? Thats easy too, revoke their business license and change them back taxes along with fines and interest. In the end, make life here for hard for them, they head back to where they came from.
agreed!
Hella stock member!
Agreed as well. Political correctness is getting out of control. Change race/ethnicity to age, if you knew that people between the age of 20-25 were resposible for numerous crimes that you were trying to prevent, would you stop people who were obviously 40-50-60 years old and question them? No, absolutely not because you know what your target group is, but if someone screamed age discrimination and profiling we would have to question everyone, it's a waste of time and resources. If you know what group of people are commiting the majority of a certain crime, why not single out that group? Like banginjimmy said, if the hispanic leaders wanted to help their own community they would advocate coming to the US legally, they would work to make the citizenship process more "user friendly" and encourage people to help crack down on human/drug trafficers, that would do much more to promote their agenda and change the image of their movement than encouraging people to break the law.
ok people, lets say slaves instead of dog... they were treat like shit so whats the difference?? years ago there was a white and colored difference.
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Human chattel slavery is completely different than illegal immigration. In case you forgot, they were either captured or bought and shipped here in prison ships; they didn't hop the border and start picking cotton for room and board.
Weren't you all the ones who were saying it was wrong when the Dept. of Homeland security posted a bulletin that "profiled" militia members and possible domestic terrorists? I remember about a year ago you guys were all bitching about this:
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
Because you were all afraid that if one had checked out Atlas Shrugged from a library or had a Ron Paul bumper sticker they'd be sent to a FEMA camp. Or some shit. I guess what I'm getting at is that most of you who support profiling are OK with it unless it happens to you.
Ok lets cut all the bullshit out of this argument and get to the MEAT of the matter. YOu raise an interesting point but lets come back to that.Weren't you all the ones who were saying it was wrong when the Dept. of Homeland security posted a bulletin that "profiled" militia members and possible domestic terrorists? I remember about a year ago you guys were all bitching about this:
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
Because you were all afraid that if one had checked out Atlas Shrugged from a library or had a Ron Paul bumper sticker they'd be sent to a FEMA camp. Or some shit. I guess what I'm getting at is that most of you who support profiling are OK with it unless it happens to you.
FACTS:
This bill SPECIFICALLY states that NO RACIAL PROFILING IS ALLOWED
THe only way the police can ask someone to prove citizenship is if they are stopped COMMITTING ANOTHER CRIME. THEY CANNOT WALK UP TO RANDOM PEOPLE AND SAY "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS".
Obama made a remark yesterday about how if a family went to an ice cream store and forgot their papers they could be harrassed which i thought was not only ignorant, but totally misinformed. In his scenario the family would have to be stopped for robbing the ice cream store before they could be asked for papers. THEY MUST COMMIT ANOTHER CRIME OR GRIEVANCE FIRST.
Now, im sure the argument is going to be that lawmen will look for any reason to pull a "latino" over or something else just to ask his resident status. Well besides being completely unknown and its all speculation, what if he did? If you drive an import with wheels and exhaust i have been "profiled" before, having a cop tail me all the way from Turner field to PeachTree city WAITING for me to do something wrong so he could pull me over. Im sure it happens ALL THE TIME with all races, creeds, social groups, etc. Bottom line is if you are legal, you dont have ANYTHING to worry about.
So you might have to answer an extra question as a latino in Arizona if you get stopped in your work truck. So the fuck what? They arent going to torture you. You either prove you are a citizen or you arent. Then the argument is HOW DARE WE QUESTION LATINOS TO FIND OUT IF THEY ARE ILLEGAL THATS SO WRONG.
WHAT FUCKING COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE IN? Im sorry folks but the statistics DO NOT LIE. 12-20 MILLION people in the USA are here ILLEGALLY. 95% of them are latino. So im sorry its only COMMON FUCKING SENSE that LAtinos will be the most affected by this, as they are the habitual law breakers.
Again if you are legal you flash a green card and go on your way. If you arent, well you are caught, SAME AS ANY OTHER CRIME.
The difference in your argument BLender is those are American CITIZENS being targeted as Terrorist groups for nothing other than opposing the current administration. Now having said that, if they arent doing anything wrong they have nothing to worry about same as above. The govt KNOWS who is in these "militias" they know their immigration status. The purpose for this law is to root out the UNKNOWN, the people we DONT KNOW who are here.
I cant see how anyone can sympathize with not doing ANYTHING at all, or simply just making everyone legal. SO what they broke the law, who cares, lets just give them what they want.
Why should we shoulder the burden and responsibility for MEXICO and other latino countries? You realize what happens if you get caught in Mexico illegally right?
IMO there is an easy way to compromise this
Option 1
5 year Work Visa (if you work for 5 years, dont get convicted of a felony, pay your taxes, you get USA citizenship status) I think there should be a rule that any child born BEFORE citizenship status is not considered a citizen. They need to stop having 12 babies over here that mooch of our healthcare and other social programs.
Option 2
5 Years of military service (starship troopers style) gets you Citizenship.
Let them EARN IT, not just come here and take it. There are TONS of people that try to do it LEGALLY and now we are basically telling those people that they lose out because they didnt hop a border and claim racism.
This country is delusional
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So people like Timmy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Robert Rudolph, David Koresh, Jeffery Lundgren (google that sick bastard), the killers of Dr. George Tiller, the Hutaree Militia, etc etc are all just guilty of nothing other than opposing the administration? They don't exhibit any patterns in the ways that their extremist beliefs and recruiting processes lead to acts of violence, terrorism, and murder?
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