Arizona governor passes SB1070 law.....

[ash7]

,,,Option 2
5 Years of military service (starship troopers style) gets you Citizenship.

statements like this are definitely what's up.



I applaud Arizona for passing this bill, applaud Texas for saying "we want that too," and can't wait for other states to follow.

-jonathan

[Vteckidd]

Chance are thEy will question other nationalities but let's not kid ourselves the main cause of illegal immigration is Latinos.

[Vteckidd]

Racial profiling is wrong but you have to also understand where profiling comes from.

Isnt it naive to just act like the majority of illegals In this country aren't Latino? I mean who are we kidding.

How come when you drive down into a poor black neighborhood you assume the kid on te corner with his pants around his ankles and a doo rag is selling drugs or prob not interested in going to college? Is that profiling?

What about poor white trailer parks ? Is it wrong everytme I drive by one I assume there's at least one meth lab in there?

Jersey shore made fun of guidos . Isn't that a form of racial profiling to see q guy like pauly d an assume he's an Italian American douche?

I mean it happens all the time

[onebadgt]

i support this 100% i do not support unjustified racial profiling but thats why there also passing another zero tolerance profiling law. i have the upmost respect for anone who comes to this country and betters there life, but not for the ones who do it illegally. the rest of us suffer from that. there are over 450,000 illegal immigrants in arizona alone. thats a ton of jobs taken, the unemployed rate would be cut in half if legal citizens had the millions of jobs that illegals now have. again i am all for legitimate new citzens making there life better, we have many hispanic men that work with us, and they are the best workers we have ever had, but they also are legal, pay taxes, and dont hafta hide.

[BB6dohcvtec]

Fact is this law won't take effect for a couple of months. By then it will be ruled unconstitutional and never see the light of day (book it). It's causing way too many problems.

[tony]

National Security exploits near the border are a result of poor immigration policy imho. I agree with Jimmy that regardless of how wrong it is, profiling works and it is a much needed evil so with this Arizona bill, I do not feel I have a leg to stand on when I want to judge. Obviously they have a major problem in that state with migrants and they want to deal with it. No the states are not sovereign but not everyone is dealing with the constraints of illegal immigration like Arizona is so if the citizens overwhelming feel they have more to gain by enforcing the law, so be it.

[Total_Blender]

. I agree with Jimmy that regardless of how wrong it is, profiling works and it is a much needed evil .

Legal Latino immigrants are 30% of Arizona's population. I really don't see them doing much good with profiling. Theres so much Mexican culture and influence there that profiling Latinos is going to be useless just because their culture is just so ubiquitous.

And as far as Al Qaeda not coming in through the Mexican border, first they would have to get in to Mexico, and I don't think Mexico wants them any more than we do.

[BanginJimmy]

Legal Latino immigrants are 30% of Arizona's population. I really don't see them doing much good with profiling. Theres so much Mexican culture and influence there that profiling Latinos is going to be useless just because their culture is just so ubiquitous.

And this is exactly why a profile, whether it be racial, ethnic, sex, religious, or anyting else, is useless if used as the only method of narrowing down a suspect pool. It is simply a starting point.

For example:

Cop stops a truck with 5 people in the bed and 3 in the cab for an illegal U turn at 2am. When he gets to the the driver's window and asks for a license, the driver doesnt speak a word of english, is acting very nervous, and claims to have forgotten his drivers license at home. Cop is a bit suspicious at this point and asks where he is going with 7 other people at that time of day. Driver gives a crazy answer and says he is doing some work on the house.

Now, would you think that this driver, and the people with him, are legal US Citizens going to work on a house at 2am, or would you suspect they are illegal and pursue it?

[Total_Blender]

1,) The people in your example have committed 2 crimes, an illegal U-turn as well as having people riding in the back of a truck. So every person in that scenario has a probable cause for being stopped and having to provide ID that is something other than "driving while Latino".

2.) You are wrong when you say this law will be enacted only if the people are under suspicion for other crimes or offenese:

E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

More provisions I have problems with:

The state telling citizens who is guilty of tresspassing on their land:

42 A. IN ADDITION TO ANY VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW, A PERSON IS GUILTY OF
43 TRESPASSING IF THE PERSON IS BOTH:
44 1. PRESENT ON ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE LAND IN THIS STATE.

When people emigrate with no money, can you really expect them to pay fines? This seems like it will just increase the burden on already overcrowded courts and jails:

11 D. IN ADDITION TO ANY OTHER PENALTY PRESCRIBED BY LAW, THE COURT SHALL
12 ORDER THE PERSON TO PAY JAIL COSTS AND AN ADDITIONAL ASSESSMENT IN THE
13 FOLLOWING AMOUNTS:
14 1. AT LEAST FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR A FIRST VIOLATION.
15 2. TWICE THE AMOUNT SPECIFIED IN PARAGRAPH 1 OF THIS SUBSECTION IF THE
16 PERSON WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBJECT TO AN ASSESSMENT PURSUANT TO THIS SUBSECTION.

There are also provisions I DO like, such as requiring employers to keep better records of their employees' immigration statuses, and they are cracking down on people caught driving without car insurance.

But overall I think SB1070 is a turd.

[Elbow]

If you come here illegally and work, take jobs, benefits, etc. You deserve to be charged with crimes and sent back where you came from.

[Total_Blender]

If you come here illegally and work, take jobs, benefits, etc. You deserve to be charged with crimes and sent back where you came from.

And then they will just come back in a month. As long as conditions remain shitty in Mexico, Central America, and certain islands in the Caribbean, people will continue to emigrate by any means necessary.

[Elbow]

And then they will just come back in a month. As long as conditions remain shitty in Mexico, Central America, and certain islands in the Caribbean, people will continue to emigrate by any means necessary.

Fine lock them up in a camp.

[Total_Blender]

Fine lock them up in a camp.

You mean a FEMA camp? Can we throw the teabaggers in there too?

[BanginJimmy]

You mean a FEMA camp? Can we throw the teabaggers in there too?

Right next to the Obama nut huggers, tree huggers, and anyone that ever stepped foot on the Berkley campus or in an ACLU office.

[sti_cham]

Fine lock them up in a camp.

x2
We need to open our eyes. There are over 2 million illegal immigrants bedding down in this state tonight! This state spent $3 billion last year, on services for those people who have no right to be here!$3 billion! $400 million just to lock up a bunch of illegal immigrant criminals, who only got into this country because the fuckin' INS decided, "It's not worth the effort to screen for convicted felons!" Who gives a shit? Our government doesn't give a shit! Our border policy's a joke! So, is anybody surprised that south of the border, they're laughing at us? Laughing at our laws? Every night, thousands of these parasites stream across the border like some fucking pinata exploded. Don't laugh! There's nothin' funny goin' on here! This is about your life and mine; it's about decent, hard working Americans falling through the cracks and getting the shaft because their government cares more about the constitutional rights of a bunch of people who aren't even citizens of this country! On the Statue of Liberty it says "give me your tired your hungry, your poor..." well it's Americans who are tired and hungry and poor, and I say until you take care of that, close the fucking book! 'Cause we're losing, we're losing our right to pursue our destiny, we're losing our freedom, so that a bunch of fucking foreigners can come in here and exploit our country! And this isn't something that's going on far away, this isn't something that's happening places we cant do anything about it, it's happening right here, right in our neighborhood

[bodhi]

x2
We need to open our eyes. There are over 2 million illegal immigrants bedding down in this state tonight! This state spent $3 billion last year, on services for those people who have no right to be here!$3 billion! $400 million just to lock up a bunch of illegal immigrant criminals, who only got into this country because the fuckin' INS decided, "It's not worth the effort to screen for convicted felons!" Who gives a shit? Our government doesn't give a shit! Our border policy's a joke! So, is anybody surprised that south of the border, they're laughing at us? Laughing at our laws? Every night, thousands of these parasites stream across the border like some fucking pinata exploded. Don't laugh! There's nothin' funny goin' on here! This is about your life and mine; it's about decent, hard working Americans falling through the cracks and getting the shaft because their government cares more about the constitutional rights of a bunch of people who aren't even citizens of this country! On the Statue of Liberty it says "give me your tired your hungry, your poor..." well it's Americans who are tired and hungry and poor, and I say until you take care of that, close the fucking book! 'Cause we're losing, we're losing our right to pursue our destiny, we're losing our freedom, so that a bunch of fucking foreigners can come in here and exploit our country! And this isn't something that's going on far away, this isn't something that's happening places we cant do anything about it, it's happening right here, right in our neighborhood

the arizona law is unconstitutional....


art 1, section 8 of the constitution gives congress the express power to decide naturalization issues
since it's an explicit power, the states have no authority, even under the 9th and 10th amendments

so keep on cryin kid


its not gonna do a goddamn thing...you want things to change? sit the fuck down and wait for it - nothing is going to happen anytime soon...
"omg illegal aliens are fuckin up the country...what are we gonna doo??????????? its so messed up n'junk"


grow up...there are those illegal fucks who should go back to their country, and there are those who are probably a more productive human-being than you are.
cobb, fulton, and gwinnett county are already doing what arizona is doing


and all theyre doing is wasting tax money on a stupid issue

last year gwinnett spent over $2 million dollars IN ONE MONTH - and only deported 8 or 900 illegal mexicans

how fuckin stupid does that sound to you?


oh and you think ppl south of the border are laughing at THE UNITED FUCKIN STATES OF AMERICA??? THE LAND OF FREEDOM.... yeah they are
do we send more military personal down there? are they gonna stop the evil aliens from coming over to the UNITED STATES? nah... they aint haha i just think it's funny that so many people are going around saying, "oh we gotta get the military down there, we gotta put the military on the border, to close the border, to stop the drugs and border jumpers...."


the U.S. army has been letting these drug cartel guys smuggle drugs over the border ON MILITARY PLANES -- their favorite is the C-130


there was a marine colonel or something in that big-ass base in texas that i can't remember the name cause im a little high (El Toro or something....?)
who found out about this, tried to blow the whistle, but he ended up blowing into the ears of somebody in on it, and they fuckin' killed his ass and then covered it up.....


so the idea that the military is gonna stop the drug trade, or anything else on the border is just a monument to stupidity....
its on the same order as building the Great Wall of China to keep out the Mongols

(for those who don't know mongolian history: the chinese spent hundreds of years building a 4,000 mile wall to keep the mongols out. so the mongols dried the tears of laughter from their eyes and LITERALLY WENT AROUND THE FUCKIN' THING)

[BanginJimmy]

And then they will just come back in a month. As long as conditions remain shitty in Mexico, Central America, and certain islands in the Caribbean, people will continue to emigrate by any means necessary.

In this case, I propose the US invade and take over Central and South America. This way they will all already be citizens so we wont have to worry about it.

[Total_Blender]

Invading places usually doesn't work out that well for us. We still have about a trillion in debt from that last fiasco.

[BanginJimmy]

Invading places usually doesn't work out that well for us. We still have about a trillion in debt from that last fiasco.

If you just want to talk about it from a debt standpoint then I guess we need to quit with all the entitlement programs also, they account for FAR more than 1T worth of debt. Hell, just the medical takeover will cost more than Iraq and Asscrackistan combined within 5 years from now.


Since you brought up Iraq, I also say we invade Iran. Their govt has committed countless verifiable acts of war against the US since 2003.

[NosVette]

I would not worry about illegals invading the US..Have any of you guys been from TX to Cali through out that whole path it truly is Mexico you see the sign Spanish letters on top and the English letters below it.I see what people are talking about people trying to flee from a wreck if thats the case then let them suffer the consequences.On the other hand 85 % of illegals do the jobs most Americans wont and cant do and they do it for minimum wage.Do you think you can work from 5am to sunset in the brutal sun with no benefits for 300 bucks a week??These people do it for their family's thats the only reason they come over to the states(on most cases).The people you see crossing over are very poor people the dark skined people looking like native americans and the rich people in mexico are the white people(In reality their still Mexicans).Have you ever seen a mexican tv news report or sopoper how ever you spell it.All you see is white looking mexicans because they favor the Spain complexion.Even though mexico won their freedom "Cinco de Mayo"The families with Spanish backgrounds still remained dominant.Just a little something thought you would like to know next time you see a mexican in the street.

[big mac]

I would not worry about illegals invading the US..Have any of you guys been from TX to Cali through out that whole path it truly is Mexico you see the sign Spanish letters on top and the English letters below it.I see what people are talking about people trying to flee from a wreck if thats the case then let them suffer the consequences.On the other hand 85 % of illegals do the jobs most Americans wont and cant do and they do it for minimum wage.Do you think you can work from 5am to sunset in the brutal sun with no benefits for 300 bucks a week??These people do it for their family's thats the only reason they come over to the states(on most cases).The people you see crossing over are very poor people the dark skined people looking like native americans and the rich people in mexico are the white people(In reality their still Mexicans).Have you ever seen a mexican tv news report or sopoper how ever you spell it.All you see is white looking mexicans because they favor the Spain complexion.Even though mexico won their freedom "Cinco de Mayo"The families with Spanish backgrounds still remained dominant.Just a little something thought you would like to know next time you see a mexican in the street.

reps fpr you man bc that is true youll rarely see a white guy(not trying to be racist) cutting lawns for min. wage in 100 degree weather from 6 am till sunset. ever!

btw independece day is september 16. cinco de mayo is when mexico defeated france in a war

[NosVette]

reps fpr you man bc that is true youll rarely see a white guy(not trying to be racist) cutting lawns for min. wage in 100 degree weather from 6 am till sunset. ever!

btw independece day is september 16. cinco de mayo is when mexico defeated france in a war

lol I knew that wasnt the right history mark...I kept thinking of it when I went to sleep....

[BanginJimmy]

.On the other hand 85 % of illegals do the jobs most Americans wont and cant do and they do it for minimum wage.Do you think you can work from 5am to sunset in the brutal sun with no benefits for 300 bucks a week??These people do it for their family's thats the only reason they come over to the states(on most cases).

Have you ever thought that maybe those illegals are the ones driving down the wages for those jobs? Just like they are for just about every construction job in the country.

The people you see crossing over are very poor people the dark skined people looking like native americans and the rich people in mexico are the white people(In reality their still Mexicans).Have you ever seen a mexican tv news report or sopoper how ever you spell it.All you see is white looking mexicans because they favor the Spain complexion.Even though mexico won their freedom "Cinco de Mayo"The families with Spanish backgrounds still remained dominant.Just a little something thought you would like to know next time you see a mexican in the street.

I honestly could not care less what happens in Mexico, just keep it there.

[Vteckidd]

On the other hand 85 % of illegals do the jobs most Americans wont and cant do and they do it for minimum wage.Do you think you can work from 5am to sunset in the brutal sun with no benefits for 300 bucks a week??These people do it for their family's thats the only reason they come over to the states(on most cases)

with that rationale then i gues we should start opening sweat shops right? why not, its cheap labor!

Its a double edged sword. I tend to agree with you that the "mexicans" are bringing prices down because they have something the american worker lost a long time ago and thats HARD WORK ETHIC. Our grandparents and parents had it, but not our generation. Mexican will work his ASS OFF to be paid a decent wage.

Americans are too entitled and too good to do that anymore.

On one hand, i see a benefit as its simply competition and its good for the market. Afterall most of the illegals are bonded or insured so they still have to be able to convince someone its a quality job.

On the other hand if we kick all illegals out, are we saying that the cost of THE JOBS THEY WERE DOING are going to rise? itsnt that the definition of inflation?

What would happen if overnight the cost of all flatscreen TVs increased 100%, 200%,300%? What about milk?

[The Creeper]

LOL @ people thinking that Mexicans and other latin americans are the hardest working guys in the world. Have any of you stating this mess speaking from direct experience?

[Vteckidd]

When it comes to lower paying jobs I would say the concensus is Latinos work harder and longer than blacks and whites.

If they didn't then why do they have all the construction, landscaping jobs?

[Vteckidd]

this isnt a which race is worse issue. Please dont try and act like the problem is purely race related, IT IS NOT.

It just so happens that in Arizona (and most of the country) the illegal immigration problems lies with LATINOs. Thats not racism thats pure FACT. Thats like saying "most people in africa are black" and then being called a racist LOL.

If youre looking for a person who commited a murder and is WHITE you probably wouldnt look in Harlem first. Right? How is this any different. Habitual offenders are latino, so it makes sense that most of the people they will catch ARE GOING TO BE LATINO.

Thats not saying they wont catch illegal Canadians, Europeans, Muslims, etc. But pure fucking simple math dictates the most of their problem is going to be with spanish people.

Again if you are legal you have NOTHING to worry about.

[bu villain]

^Agreed with everything you said (except people from mexico are mexicans, people from spain are spanish so we don't have a problem with too many illegal spanish people).

Most peoples problem with the law is not with the idea itself, it is in how it COULD be enforced. "Reasonable suspicion" is a very loose term and not everyone in law enforcement would have the same criteria. I'm sure most officers would be very fair but there may be some who abuse that leeway. If the criteria for detaining someone until they produced the proper papers was clear and unambiguous, there would not be such resistance to this law.

[BanginJimmy]

Most peoples problem with the law is not with the idea itself, it is in how it COULD be enforced. "Reasonable suspicion" is a very loose term and not everyone in law enforcement would have the same criteria. I'm sure most officers would be very fair but there may be some who abuse that leeway. If the criteria for detaining someone until they produced the proper papers was clear and unambiguous, there would not be such resistance to this law.

You do know that most laws on the books are written in the same manner dont you? The add on legislation makes perfectly clear what was intended with the original law, that no one can be stopped for the purposes of enforcing this law and they can only be asked their status if they are under police control for some other infraction, such as speeding.

Sounds to me like you are opposed to a law that you know nothing about, much like Obama, Holder, and Sec of DHS.

[bu villain]

You do know that most laws on the books are written in the same manner dont you? The add on legislation makes perfectly clear what was intended with the original law, that no one can be stopped for the purposes of enforcing this law and they can only be asked their status if they are under police control for some other infraction, such as speeding.

Sounds to me like you are opposed to a law that you know nothing about, much like Obama, Holder, and Sec of DHS.

I don't think there is any confusion about what the law says. I am aware that they must be stopped for other purposes first and that many other laws require some level of officer judgement. Additionally I believe the law is well intentioned but that doesn't alleviate the concerns.

Take for example a mexican born (but lawful immigrant) who does not speak english well. This law will practically ensure that he is scrutinized more than say a white person who speaks good english if they were to both be pulled over for speeding. Many people consider this unfair. I don't know why this concern is so hard to grasp.

You can argue that we should be discriminating in such a way because its the best way to stop illegal immigration but that doesn't mean people who disagree don't understand the law.

[BanginJimmy]

I don't think there is any confusion about what the law says. I am aware that they must be stopped for other purposes first and that many other laws require some level of officer judgement. Additionally I believe the law is well intentioned but that doesn't alleviate the concerns.

Take for example a mexican born (but lawful immigrant) who does not speak english well. This law will practically ensure that he is scrutinized more than say a white person who speaks good english if they were to both be pulled over for speeding. Many people consider this unfair. I don't know why this concern is so hard to grasp.

We agree completely, it isnt fair, but when has life EVER been fair to everyone? Because the problem there centers around the hispanic population it is a given fact that hispanics will be more heavily scrutinized. It isnt that the concern is hard to grasp, it is the fact that no one knows another way to go about it. Do you think that checking the immigration status of a white guy that speaks fluent english in an area that 90% + of illegals are hispanic and speak little to no english is a better solution? This is why profiling works, racial or otherwise. It goes a very long way to narrow a suspect pool. If they try to go further than that based solely on race then you are talking about a completely different issue all together.

We also agree that this law does nothing to fix the underlying problem, which is that our border security is a joke. I truely believe this law has more to do with forcing illegals out of Arizona and forcing the feds to act than it really is about enforcing federal law. I also believe that Brewer will rescind the law if the feds act in a way she feels is appropriate.

You can argue that we should be discriminating in such a way because its the best way to stop illegal immigration but that doesn't mean people who disagree don't understand the law.

How is the law in any way discriminatory? Unless you consider singling out criminals to be discrimination, this law does nothing that can be construed as discriminatory. And yes, everyone that is in this country illegally is a criminal.

[bu villain]

We agree completely, it isnt fair, but when has life EVER been fair to everyone? Because the problem there centers around the hispanic population it is a given fact that hispanics will be more heavily scrutinized. It isnt that the concern is hard to grasp, it is the fact that no one knows another way to go about it. Do you think that checking the immigration status of a white guy that speaks fluent english in an area that 90% + of illegals are hispanic and speak little to no english is a better solution? This is why profiling works, racial or otherwise. It goes a very long way to narrow a suspect pool. If they try to go further than that based solely on race then you are talking about a completely different issue all together.

Sounds like we agree on everything except whether the ends justify the means.

We also agree that this law does nothing to fix the underlying problem, which is that our border security is a joke. I truely believe this law has more to do with forcing illegals out of Arizona and forcing the feds to act than it really is about enforcing federal law. I also believe that Brewer will rescind the law if the feds act in a way she feels is appropriate.

Yup I'm with you on this.

How is the law in any way discriminatory? Unless you consider singling out criminals to be discrimination, this law does nothing that can be construed as discriminatory. And yes, everyone that is in this country illegally is a criminal.

I thought your first paragraph was about how it would be discriminatory against hispanics but that was okay because that's what made it effective. Yes people who are in this country illegally are criminals. I am more concerned about the people who are hispanic and are legal. I don't think they should pay the price because they happen to be of the same ethnic heritage as many illegals.

[bu villain]

^Agreed with everything you said (except people from mexico are mexicans, people from spain are spanish so we don't have a problem with too many illegal spanish people).

Most peoples problem with the law is not with the idea itself, it is in how it COULD be enforced. "Reasonable suspicion" is a very loose term and not everyone in law enforcement would have the same criteria. I'm sure most officers would be very fair but there may be some who abuse that leeway. If the criteria for detaining someone until they produced the proper papers was clear and unambiguous, there would not be such resistance to this law.