To those of you who said the healthcare bill isn't going to affect us
http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/d...ction=late-new
^^Thats an example of what it will do to companies.
One of the most interesting parts is: "We can ill-afford cost increases that place us at a disadvantage versus our global competitors".
So for those of you who thought this was going to help our economy and strengthen our workforce,
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IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
Oh, I know. We're all fucked.
Your sig gave me a seizure.
- IA Management
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"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby
"I'll fuck you 'til you love me, faggot!" -Mike Tyson
THISOriginally Posted by Mantooth
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-IA MANAGEMENT
Yes we're all employees of Catepillar..
Catepillar is a very large company with a lot of employees, we should take this as a sign of things to come...
Catepillar is one company within an industry of MANY construction companies. If I want to base the state of the economy on one corporation's hardship then we've been doomed well before Healthcare reform. The gauge of how successful healthcare reform is or isn't will not come for years, all legislation is forward looking and rarely if ever gives an immediate impact.
Do you think before you write this shit? Are you suggesting that this is a one time event that will not be repeated into other industries/corporations? Did I not specifically say this was going to happen yesterday, and look at this, it did. And are we going to make it to that 10 year mark to base the success of this bill? I don't give a shit how forward you look in the future, you learn to crawl before you can walk, you can't just say lets change shit to this.
The Law of Unintended Consequences <----
Do you know what the immediate impact of this bill is? Increased taxes. Do you know what this bill says? It says you get taxed an extra 8-20%. It says if you DON'T buy APPROVED health insurance, you have to pay more taxes. It says if companies don't provide you with health insurance, they have to pay fines.
Please go do some damn research before you say anything else.
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Any legislation that was pivotal had unintended consequences but there is a legislative process that corrects those consequences as time continues. No law is perfect when it is first drawn up, this is why it is a process. Corporations such as Catepillar voice their concerns as they did in that letter and the officials of which we have elected determine if those grievances are valid against the need of the citizens. This is POLS101 but you want me to research? Trust me I am very well versed in politics, come with something that I don't explain to my 8 year old on a daily basis.
So are you saying this is strickly an isolated situation? While I don't have enough information to determine the total effect, I do see this creating problems for several companies. This worries me.
I think that something this important should warrant more thought. It should not be railed through just so a president, who has been loosing support of the people, can claim he made good on a campain promise
Rich...Bob...Stan...?????
I wish I was as stupid as you so I didn't have to worry about this shit.
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lol Of course the intelligent response was to insult me rather than reply with something that would challenge what I stated. Try again, this time with effort.
Challenge what you said? That we're not all employees of Caterpillar? What the fuck kind of message do I have to type to argue you're stupid ass comment? Enlighten me on that one, please.
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IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
It would have been easier to say "I don't have a response" or "I can't," Sprinkling insults and curse words doesn't make you appear any tougher.
Mods can we move this to the political section? I think it'd be more fitting there.
You're not naive at all.
Your sig gave me a seizure.
- IA Management
www.facebook.com/wes.monteith
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby
"I'll fuck you 'til you love me, faggot!" -Mike Tyson
That was a ridiculous statement, and as you well know, if the bill will effect a company of this size this much, it's going to be just as bad for other fortune 500 companies.
The worst part is this
"the legislation would discourage companies from hiring more workers and would cause reduced hours and wages for those already employed."
If a company the size of caterpiller is already this against the bill for economic reasons.. that can't be good. Others are soon to follow.
Not to mention morally, the bill violates 5 amendments:
First Amendment
Fourth Amendment
Fifth Amendment
Ninth Amendment
Tenth Amendment
Way Too Big
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
_██_
(ಠ_ృ) Riveting tale, chap.
I don't like to reference the stock market because I don't think it gives an accurate representation but if you look at the market and specifically the Healthcare Industry as a reactionary gauge I would say that commerce is very much satisfied with the proposed legislation, and they should be. The industry will gain 30 million new customers which will bolster the industry on a large scale. When you compare that against the grievances of Catepillar in that letter I just do not have a lot of sympathy. They'll adjust as will most other large corporations not to mention they have until 2014 to do so.
Before I say anything, please elaborate....cause I think you may be retarded.
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The bill states that no penalties will be incurred until 2014 begins. Although as Tony said before.. the bill is in infant stage.. anything can change.
Way Too Big
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
_██_
(ಠ_ృ) Riveting tale, chap.
You don't know the particulars of something you are so critical of? Interesting..
This one passed me by, you'll have to explain this one because the one that comes close to holding weight in terms of this bill is the 10th Amendment, the others you'd have to explai., I mean the 5th Amendment is a judicial process and while I'm far from a lawyer, its a stretch to say this reform hinders your protection from self incrimination.
Like some of the New Deal legislation, this bill is very open to challenges on a number of Constitutional arguments.
First Amendment - with SCOTUS having just recently ruled that spending is an exercise of freedom of speech, the mandate to spend money for health care insurance is open to an argument that it is a violation of the right of free speech. In addition, there are religious groups that don't believe in modern health care, and so it will be also open to attack under the freedom of religion clause.
Fourth Amendment - Income tax was originally struck down because of the illegal seizure of property clause of the Fourth Amendment. It took the Sixteenth Amendment to give the federal government the power to directly tax people. This bill mandates spending (which is not the same as tax) and penalties for not spending. The illegal seizure of property article clearly applies.
Fifth Amendment - Penalties without due process = unconstitutional. And this bill calls for just that. Again, the 16th Amendment loophole used by the IRS regarding taxation does not apply.
Ninth and Tenth Amendments - regarding State and individual rights.
This will be interesting. I don't think it will take long to get in front of SCOTUS. If they rule against it on some of these issues (especially if they rule in accordance with the ruling that made income tax illegal), it will take a Constitutional Amendment to override.
Way Too Big
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
_██_
(ಠ_ృ) Riveting tale, chap.
So now you get to decide how your money is spent based on what policies you support or oppose? I'm opposed to 2 wars right now, and have been since 2002... I figure I'm owed at least 5 grand in overpayments to the IRS. Please post the evidence you have supporting this so I can get my fucking big ass check.
my bro works there too.. lolololol
And this is relevant because...?
its not its fucking random as hell to lighten the situation, i am so sick of hearing about this... thought itd throw the intensity off and poke fun... idk ha
this is a serious discussion among men. you do not belong. back to the sammiches. me and tony are hungry from being geniuses.
Way Too Big
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
_██_
(ಠ_ృ) Riveting tale, chap.
fine back to the kitchen i go !
guys if you want CHANGE then simply show it at the voters box this November
THIS. I will be voting for sure.guys if you want CHANGE then simply show it at the voters box this November
guys if you want CHANGE then simply show it at the voters box this November
x2
This is very much true, its pretty simple stuff.guys if you want CHANGE then simply show it at the voters box this November
Politics makes me laugh b/c everyone thinks they are an expert... healthcare, finance, etc...
more fair and balanced from Fox News.
Paul "your bullshit makes the flowers grow"
I don't think I'm an expert but I don't think I'm lost on the subject either.
Of course I own this.
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sorry but quoting Fox News is far from not being lost... lets be realistic they sell stories for the right wing - their CEO has even stated that their material is bias.
Paul "your bullshit makes the flowers grow"
Where did I ever quote fox news? That was on multiple news stations last night, and, what I quoted was from what Caterpillar said, who, I do business with. So, think what you want sir, if you're really basing everything I said off me linking an article then, be my guest.
Of course I own this.
IT PUTS THE OREOS ON THE RIM
Its pretty obvious my post were due to the link and I watched the news last night on both ABC, CNN and didn't see one thing about Caterpillar.
Paul "your bullshit makes the flowers grow"
WHO THE FUCK CARES!?
c'mon simon, i usually stay out of discussions on politics, but i have to agree, it will affect us all, especially the middle to upper class
CANT STOP WHAT YOU CANT CATCH
:idb::boobies:I EAT PUSSY FOR REPS! LOL :boobies::idb:
WELLL Tony?
Way Too Big
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
_██_
(ಠ_ృ) Riveting tale, chap.
Okay as I said earlier I am no lawyer and although my study is the basis for constitutional law I am in no way qualified to rebut anything you posted. I can only say this in my own opinion:
On the first amendment, with a stripped down interpretation of the first amendment in no way does this bill infringe on the right to freedom of speech. What you are referring to is the Supreme Court's ruling that Corporations are able to express their freedom of speech through campaign donations, this wouldn't be such a stretch if those donations were mandated. By this rationale the insurance that you are required to have on your vehicle would be unconstitutional as well even though they are placed at the state level, local governments would take them to court.
Fourth Amendment, I actually addressed this earlier this morning in a thread titled "State Rights." From my own understanding you are actually right, but then again the Constitution gives Congress the power to expand Commerce so the legislative process is well within their means to mandate coverage, and if the SCOTUS rules in favor of the states on this subject it opens the door for the mandates to be converted to a payroll tax much like Medicaid and Social security in turn opening the door for a European style healthcare system.
Tenth Amendment I'll leave to the experts, I don't feel I have a good enough grasp to go in depth with the discussion. My basic understanding goes back to Congress' ability to expand Congress and that if states truly were sovereign, there had to be a different outcome from the Civil War. Furthermore the Federal Government would not be able to enforce pollution standards or the Disabilities Act.
Fifth Amendment - Due process is the key term here, the mandates will not be implemented until 4 years when it has gone through a very thorough legislative shaping. Again this is just my own interpretation and not anything to be quoted but an infringement on due process would be immediate mandates without any rebuttal or scrutiny. Now if you go with a more broad definition of Due Process of just how "fair" is the mandate then that is subject to the courts.
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