Obama ...........delusional? or just outright deceitful

[Vteckidd]

Originally Posted by tony
A lot of you don't understand that zero movement on healthcare is a gap between the haves and the have nots. If you're rich that is fine but I guarantee not one person got there without the help of others, now it is time to help those others cause god knows in this economy they need it.

I just dont see where you think you can force this society into some kind of Utopia. YOu really think you can legislate people to CARE and give back? IS that what im reading? I mean you cannot force people to do something if they dont want to.

Furthermore, there is no RIGHT to healthcare. As i have said before and if you read my FACTS, very LITTLE in this country have no care and if they dont its because they choose NOT TO.

Hell , Brandon can go get care, i bet he can pay the same $125 a month that i pay, he may have to cut out stuff like cable tv, 500whp 240s, etc. But if healthcare really mattered to him, he could go pay for it. I know he could. But many like him dont want it. He is a mid to late 20s healthy guy with no pre-existing conditions. He is willing to not pay for it.

By empowering the HAVE NOTS to an entitlement and taxing the very people they work for, do you not understand you are going to force more layoffs?

What are you going to do when unemployment reaches 20%? Blame the evil rich? You cannot sit there and tell a business owner they are wrong for making too much money, then tell them to hire more people to take us out of a recession. Thats complete idiocy. You cant tax them and increase their costs, then tell them to go hire more people.

If you cant understand that, i dont know what to tell you.

Again im going to re-iterate the things a capitalisitic society needs . The world needs haves and have nots. There are going to be ambitious people out there that make it, and theres some that dont. Theres going to be some people that can get ahead, there will be some that done.

There isnt anyone in this country that cant make it if they try hard , work hard, and take risks. I started my business with $1200 over a year ago. I had rent due in 2 weeks, which was $800. So realistically i had $400 to my name. I have grown that into a business that is very successful. Ive bought a house, a car, ive re-invested into my business heavily with new products and items being developed, ive grown. I dont employ anyone else YET because i dont have that need. But its coming and coming soon.

BG/Mainstream/Other places started with little to no money. And now they employ 2-3 people per shop. They have invested in new equipment, new staff, etc. That is the "front lines" that Obama is attacking.


You said tony that you may not understand BGs needs as business owners because you arent one. Why should they be forced to understand your needs? It works both ways

[tony]

I just dont see where you think you can force this society into some kind of Utopia. YOu really think you can legislate people to CARE and give back? IS that what im reading? I mean you cannot force people to do something if they dont want to.

Furthermore, there is no RIGHT to healthcare. As i have said before and if you read my FACTS, very LITTLE in this country have no care and if they dont its because they choose NOT TO.

Hell , Brandon can go get care, i bet he can pay the same $125 a month that i pay, he may have to cut out stuff like cable tv, 500whp 240s, etc. But if healthcare really mattered to him, he could go pay for it. I know he could. But many like him dont want it. He is a mid to late 20s healthy guy with no pre-existing conditions. He is willing to not pay for it.

By empowering the HAVE NOTS to an entitlement and taxing the very people they work for, do you not understand you are going to force more layoffs?

What are you going to do when unemployment reaches 20%? Blame the evil rich? You cannot sit there and tell a business owner they are wrong for making too much money, then tell them to hire more people to take us out of a recession. Thats complete idiocy. You cant tax them and increase their costs, then tell them to go hire more people.

If you cant understand that, i dont know what to tell you.

Again im going to re-iterate the things a capitalisitic society needs . The world needs haves and have nots. There are going to be ambitious people out there that make it, and theres some that dont. Theres going to be some people that can get ahead, there will be some that done.

There isnt anyone in this country that cant make it if they try hard , work hard, and take risks. I started my business with $1200 over a year ago. I had rent due in 2 weeks, which was $800. So realistically i had $400 to my name. I have grown that into a business that is very successful. Ive bought a house, a car, ive re-invested into my business heavily with new products and items being developed, ive grown. I dont employ anyone else YET because i dont have that need. But its coming and coming soon.

BG/Mainstream/Other places started with little to no money. And now they employ 2-3 people per shop. They have invested in new equipment, new staff, etc. That is the "front lines" that Obama is attacking.


You said tony that you may not understand BGs needs as business owners because you arent one. Why should they be forced to understand your needs? It works both ways

You act like BG's only 2-3 customers are their employees, how about those people that come there to have their car worked on? I bet BG feels the recession too because people have to tend to other expenses rather than modify their car when times are tough. The needs I'm talking about are the very people who come through that door, not just those who work behind it.

And good for you for making it but I don't expect everyone to make it to my level, its impossible.. you actually contradicted yourself in that sense. You say in Capitalism there needs to be haves and have nots then say everyone is able to work hard and move up, if there is always going to be this gap the two cannot exist.. someone will always be at the bottom.

What I am saying is those at the bottom need not be left out and even though they might not be the wealthiest or most productive, they are citizens of this country. Health benefits are not a right, but at one time free education wasn't either but look what happened after it became one, that is one of the reasons our economy flourished. I'm sure those who wanted to remain educated without "paying" for others' had similar arguments as yours back then.

[Vteckidd]

You act like BG's only 2-3 customers are their employees, how about those people that come there to have their car worked on? I bet BG feels the recession too because people have to tend to other expenses rather than modify their car when times are tough. The needs I'm talking about are the very people who come through that door, not just those who work behind it.

And good for you for making it but I don't expect everyone to make it to my level, its impossible.. you actually contradicted yourself in that sense. You say in Capitalism there needs to be haves and have nots then say everyone is able to work hard and move up, if there is always going to be this gap the two cannot exist.. someone will always be at the bottom.

What I am saying is those at the bottom need not be left out and even though they might not be the wealthiest or most productive, they are citizens of this country. Health benefits are not a right, but at one time free education wasn't either but look what happened after it became one, that is one of the reasons our economy flourished. I'm sure those who wanted to remain educated without "paying" for others' had similar arguments as yours back then.

No you just dont understand my statements.

There will be have and have nots. Those are determined by those who work hard and those that dont. Those that take responsibility, those that always blame someone else. Those with good grades, those without. Those with connections, those with none.

The simple fact is, there will be people that get ahead and make money, there will be people that DONT.

I firmly believe that if you want to change your situation you can. Look at Tracy, she said she came from a household of abuse and drugs, but she did something different than her brother. WHY? Cause she CHOSE TO. She has been rewarded. Her brother, not so much.

There will always be ones that work hard, and there will always be ones that dont want to work for it.

The ones that dont want it bad enough, dont deserve free handouts at the expense of those that worked to get to a position they can enjoy life.

sorry if thats cold hearted.

[tony]

There will always be ones that work hard, and there will always be ones that dont want to work for it.

The ones that dont want it bad enough, dont deserve free handouts at the expense of those that worked to get to a position they can enjoy life.

sorry if thats cold hearted.

Then thats you, you can use your resources to maintain yourself as one of the "haves." Nothing wrong with that.

[punkr6]

What I am saying is those at the bottom need not be left out and even though they might not be the wealthiest or most productive, they are citizens of this country. Health benefits are not a right, but at one time free education wasn't either but look what happened after it became one, that is one of the reasons our economy flourished. I'm sure those who wanted to remain educated without "paying" for others' had similar arguments as yours back then.

public education is a joke, and where do you draw the line ? Are we gonna pay for everyones everything and say its ok because they are less fortunate ?

[tony]

public education is a joke, and where do you draw the line ? Are we gonna pay for everyones everything and say its ok because their less fortunate ?

You missed the point. Pick up a history book, mix that with some economics and you will find that free education is the one thing that pushed any of the advanced nations today forward. Are Rhode Scholars coming out of grade school? No, but at the least it creates an relatively educated society.

[BanginJimmy]

You act like BG's only 2-3 customers are their employees, how about those people that come there to have their car worked on? I bet BG feels the recession too because people have to tend to other expenses rather than modify their car when times are tough. The needs I'm talking about are the very people who come through that door, not just those who work behind it.

You are only looking at half the equation. Look at the other half of it. Before those people can come into BG they need money from their employer. The healthcare fines and taxes alone will cause ALL employers to cut their employees. Some small employers like BG may have to cut 1 employee to make ends meet. Some employers, like Lockheed, will have to cut several thousand to achieve the same level of cuts.