The idea of Equality is now referred to as "Socialism"

[tony]

See that is a problem, some of you think there is a level playing field. Do you think all women have the same opportunity as men to succeed? If so you're lying to yourself, there are plenty of glass ceilings for women in our society.

Look at the average income for households based on race and ethnicity, that large ass gap tells you there is not a level playing field. The unemployment rate, incarceration rates, all these figures will show you that there is a disproportionate number of minorities at the bottom of these lists. People still do not understand the difference between Muslim and Islam, or what they stand for.

If people were more willing to "give" when they make it taxes wouldn't be so big of a burden, but people spend more time trying to retain wealth rather than help the next person. Not everyone has the same opportunities in this world and those of you like the last two posters who live in this perfect world where there is no roadblocks for the lower class complain cause you don't understand that. Lower Class does not mean lazy, and to judge them as so shows that we still have a long way to go in this society.

[Vteckidd]

See that is a problem, some of you think there is a level playing field. Do you think all women have the same opportunity as men to succeed? If so you're lying to yourself, there are plenty of glass ceilings for women in our society.

Look at the average income for households based on race and ethnicity, that large ass gap tells you there is not a level playing field. The unemployment rate, incarceration rates, all these figures will show you that there is a disproportionate number of minorities at the bottom of these lists. People still do not understand the difference between Muslim and Islam, or what they stand for.

If people were more willing to "give" when they make it taxes wouldn't be so big of a burden, but people spend more time trying to retain wealth rather than help the next person. Not everyone has the same opportunities in this world and those of you like the last two posters who live in this perfect world where there is no roadblocks for the lower class complain cause you don't understand that. Lower Class does not mean lazy, and to judge them as so shows that we still have a long way to go in this society.

Tony i made $7/hr from 22-27. I made less than $20,000 a year. I made $14,000 a year TAKE HOME some years. I lived on my own, i had $500 in rent, $50 cell phone, untilities.

I was the DEFINITION OF POOR.

I have no college degree.

Now look at me, no one helped me out, no one gave me a chance or an opportunity. I went out and took it.

It didnt help me because i was white, my father has NOTHING to do with cars he wouldnt no the difference between an oil filter and a spark plug. We come from a long line of retired Lt. Col in the air force.

I made it, so can others. Their are road blocks, THAT IS LIFE. You either man up and get around them, or you let it defeat you. Now you are asking them to make the govt help you get around those road blocks because its not fair.

If anything women and minorities have a BETTER chance to get ahead with affirmative action and the current rules in the workplace. They get PREFERENTIAL treatment, not equal treatment.

The unemployment rate, incarceration rates, all these figures will show you that there is a disproportionate number of minorities at the bottom of these lists

READ THE BELL CURVE

[tony]

Tony i made $7/hr from 22-27. I made less than $20,000 a year. I made $14,000 a year TAKE HOME some years. I lived on my own, i had $500 in rent, $50 cell phone, untilities.

I was the DEFINITION OF POOR.

I have no college degree.

Now look at me, no one helped me out, no one gave me a chance or an opportunity. I went out and took it.

It didnt help me because i was white, my father has NOTHING to do with cars he wouldnt no the difference between an oil filter and a spark plug. We come from a long line of retired Lt. Col in the air force.

I made it, so can others. Their are road blocks, THAT IS LIFE. You either man up and get around them, or you let it defeat you. Now you are asking them to make the govt help you get around those road blocks because its not fair.

If anything women and minorities have a BETTER chance to get ahead with affirmative action and the current rules in the workplace. They get PREFERENTIAL treatment, not equal treatment.


READ THE BELL CURVE

I didn't ask for Government help, I asked for awareness. I got to where I am because of networking, someone was in a position to help me and I made the most of it, but some of the roadblocks I faced were unnecessary because they were only because of my race. Substancial roadblocks are fine, they build character but to dismiss discrimination as a "roadblock and get over it," never. Anyone who is willing to listen I'll let it be known that there are injustices out there that stand as roadblocks that others don't have to deal with because they are not a minority, this is how it was explained to me, this is how I will explain it to my son and so on.

[Vteckidd]

I didn't ask for Government help, I asked for awareness. I got to where I am because of networking, someone was in a position to help me and I made the most of it, but some of the roadblocks I faced were unnecessary because they were only because of my race. Substancial roadblocks are fine, they build character but to dismiss discrimination as a "roadblock and get over it," never. Anyone who is willing to listen I'll let it be known that there are injustices out there that stand as roadblocks that others don't have to deal with because they are not a minority, this is how it was explained to me, this is how I will explain it to my son and so on.

Yeah but you arent talking about racial raodblocks. If you cant get a job or a promotion because you are black, then thats one thing.

You arent talking about that though. SO we should pay more in taxes to help people that are racially having a hard time?

Is that what you are saying?

NO, you are saying that the top percent needs to give more to help the bottom percent.

[ahabion]

Yeah but you arent talking about racial raodblocks. If you cant get a job or a promotion because you are black, then thats one thing.

You arent talking about that though. SO we should pay more in taxes to help people that are racially having a hard time?

Is that what you are saying?

NO, you are saying that the top percent needs to give more to help the bottom percent.

Agreed.

I'm an Asian male here in the South. I was passed up for certain benefits (teleworking/work at home) while working for a large insurance agency. Why? They say it was because of performance... wasn't getting enough leads to make management happy BUT, I had the highest closing sales percentage (88% average) on leads that I did qualify versus the company average of (14%). Now some folks had far far more leads that they qualified (as was one of the metrics requirements) where I would qualify about 20 a day, they were qualifying over 400 a week.

Just to get you a feel for where I was working. There was a total of 6 males working in my department out of about 60-70 workers. Of those 6, there was one white male, one asian male (me), and 4 black males. The remaining were female workers. ALL of my management up for 3 levels in management were female. Of the 7 supervisors within my department 2 of them were white, 5 were black (including mine), and the department manager overseeing everything was a black female.

Now the claim was that I wasn't performing (even though I was closing sales) just not qualifying the leads like they wanted me to. But any good salesperson knows what really matters... closing the deal and making the sale.

Was I racially discriminated? Possibly.
Was I happy about it? No.
Was it right? I didn't think so.
What did I do? Roll with the punches and keep on working until it works.

You'll just need to learn to deal with it and keep moving, irregardless of circumstances, YOU are the one that needs to make the living and only YOU can change your circumstances. Life isn't fair and it's tough but you make life what you want it to be.

btw, I grew up on welfare and gov't subsidized housing and living in the projects... I know what it is to be poor and really knowing what real hunger pains are. Grew up eating rice and vegetables and canned foods. Was I dealt a fair deck of cards? YES. Because in light of my past that I've learned from... fairness does NOT mean equality. Fairness is you get what you are responsible for.

[ahabion]

I'll let it be known that there are injustices out there that stand as roadblocks that others don't have to deal with because they are not a minority, this is how it was explained to me, this is how I will explain it to my son and so on.

While you're at it, teach them to be bigger than those injustices and move on rather than sulk in it. This is how I will explain it to my daughter and my two sons and so on.

I plan on arming my kids and future generations with tools they can use... like knowledge and know-how to scale walls that WILL try to block them and keep them from their goals and aspirations. Arm them so they can climb mountains, don't cripple them.

[Vteckidd]

I was gonna say this yesterday too, does anyone think that the only racial bias out there is towards African Americans?

I mean hell we put Asians in detention camps during WWII. We committed a ton of atrocities against the Native Americans. There was severe backlash against the Muslim community after 9/11. Look how much we make fun of Paki/Indian people.

I mean how come all those groups of people have somehow found a way to move forward despite the "racial injustices" or the bias against their religion/culture?

Why is it the only thing that gets attention is this Black racial injustice notion?

[AirMax95]

I was gonna say this yesterday too, does anyone think that the only racial bias out there is towards African Americans?

I mean hell we put Asians in detention camps during WWII. We committed a ton of atrocities against the Native Americans. There was severe backlash against the Muslim community after 9/11. Look how much we make fun of Paki/Indian people.

I mean how come all those groups of people have somehow found a way to move forward despite the "racial injustices" or the bias against their religion/culture?

Why is it the only thing that gets attention is this Black racial injustice notion?

Slavery started in America before the 1700s. Native Americans were virtually wiped out, now they have land reservations. Muslims in America are punished as a whole due to their bad apples (which is due to our close minded society). Paki/Indian people chose to come to America and have a very different outlook on life. They look forward to much more, and many do not like the "poking of fun" at thier accent and ways of life.

They found a way to overcome their racial injusties because their entire race was not subjected to near as much torment as blacks did (Excuse no, fact, yes). Through all the pain, we have developed a TOTALLY different outlook on America. Having decisions made for you, being told you are not a man (later, part of a man ), having your family torn apart, women raped, children missing, etc. Marinate on that and tell me how it sounds. The Jewish people can relate, but I am not sure others can. If you slightly agree with even the simplest of psychologist, you can agree that there is a mental ceiling that continually has to be broken after a person has been subjected to such things. Now, picture that with a complete race. The trickle down effect is a bitch.

The Black racial injustice gets the most attention because it was conditionally dealt with. By that I mean the blacks were granted rights and equality because we fought for them. Things minimally changed because a white person of power felt what was going on was wrong. There is also a flipside to the portrayl, the negativity hides from society the blacks that have uplifted and moved on. Shows like Black in America (the positive side) is very beneficial. I think Americans that viewed it see a brighter picture.

There is a series of essays written by W.E.B. Dubois that speaks of the Talented 10th, and how blacks can repair the structure of our race in America.


Ok, I will shut up now because I do not like politics......this thread reeks of it, lol.

[Vteckidd]

Slavery started in America before the 1700s. Native Americans were virtually wiped out, now they have land reservations. Muslims in America are punished as a whole due to their bad apples (which is due to our close minded society). Paki/Indian people chose to come to America and have a very different outlook on life. They look forward to much more, and many do not like the "poking of fun" at thier accent and ways of life.

They found a way to overcome their racial injusties because their entire race was not subjected to near as much torment as blacks did (Excuse no, fact, yes). Through all the pain, we have developed a TOTALLY different outlook on America. Having decisions made for you, being told you are not a man (later, part of a man ), having your family torn apart, women raped, children missing, etc. Marinate on that and tell me how it sounds. The Jewish people can relate, but I am not sure others can. If you slightly agree with even the simplest of psychologist, you can agree that there is a mental ceiling that continually has to be broken after a person has been subjected to such things. Now, picture that with a complete race. The trickle down effect is a bitch.

The Black racial injustice gets the most attention because it was conditionally dealt with. By that I mean the blacks were granted rights and equality because we fought for them. Things minimally changed because a white person of power felt what was going on was wrong. There is also a flipside to the portrayl, the negativity hides from society the blacks that have uplifted and moved on. Shows like Black in America (the positive side) is very beneficial. I think Americans that viewed it see a brighter picture.

There is a series of essays written by W.E.B. Dubois that speaks of the Talented 10th, and how blacks can repair the structure of our race in America.


Ok, I will shut up now because I do not like politics......this thread reaks of it, lol.

I was being serious about my previous post haha, ill read your response when i get home

[AirMax95]

Don't play with my emotions......

[ahabion]

Slavery started in America before the 1700s. Native Americans were virtually wiped out, now they have land reservations. Muslims in America are punished as a whole due to their bad apples (which is due to our close minded society). Paki/Indian people chose to come to America and have a very different outlook on life. They look forward to much more, and many do not like the "poking of fun" at thier accent and ways of life.

They found a way to overcome their racial injusties because their entire race was not subjected to near as much torment as blacks did...

I'm going to end that last line "that you know of."

Great article I found... was a good read. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...alisation.race

[bu villain]

That is like saying that increasing your savings is not proof that you are spending less money. We were attacked about once a year on average under Clinton, we were attacked just once under Bush. I wont even go into the fact that all of the terrorists were in the US before Bush was elected. I would say we are safer under Bush than we are under Clinton.

Actually increasing your saving is not proof you are spending less money. You could be making more money and spending the same. If I have a car accident in July while wearing a seatbelt and dont have an accident in august but don't wear my seatbelt, that doesn't mean it's safer not to wear a seatbelt.

Guess what, they could do that before the patriot Act. I'm also sorry to tell you that the CIA doesnt give a shit what you talk about.

Never said they did, only said that they could listen. My point was that I don't agree with giving up that kind of privacy for any reason, even if it could somehow remotely give me a better chance of not being killed in a terrorist attack.

Completely different circumstances. In Iraq we will actually be allies, Iran will simply be a country that celebrates the killing of American citizens.

So are you saying we should invade any country that doesn't like us and put in a more friendly government? Certainly you won't argue that Iraq was a bigger threat to us than Iran or North Korea.

You might want to look at the Vice president also. He said the same basic thing during a debate. I also happen to agree with them. The US has already forgotten the lessons of 9/11 and it WILL take another attack on our soil before they get their acts together in Washington.

I don't recall the Vice President saying anything of that sort but thats beside the point. Just because the VP says something doesn't make it right. Also, you only think we have forgotten the lessons of 9/11 because we don't all agree on what the lessons are.

[bu villain]

BanginJimmy pretty much covered my response.

I mean BIden pretty much said the same thing in the debates about Obama being tested. He wouldnt be surprised if there was an attack.

That's completely different from saying it would be a good thing and that America NEEDS it. Like I said before, I don't know what Beck's or his guests were thinking, I only know what they said.

[AirMax95]

I'm going to end that last line "that you know of."

Great article I found... was a good read. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...alisation.race

Good article, thanks.

My statment was slighty off. Replace "that you know of" with "in America".

[bu villain]

If anything women and minorities have a BETTER chance to get ahead with affirmative action and the current rules in the workplace. They get PREFERENTIAL treatment, not equal treatment.

Just out of curiosity, why aren't women and minorities represented more than whites in the upper echelons of society if this is the case? Do they just not want to be there or are they all just more lazy than white people? Btw, I don't think we should have affirmative action either. In my opinion, two wrongs don't make a right.

[ahabion]

Just out of curiosity, why aren't women and minorities represented more than whites in the upper echelons of society if this is the case? Do they just not want to be there or are they all just more lazy than white people? Btw, I don't think we should have affirmative action either. In my opinion, two wrongs don't make a right.

Women tend to drop out of the "corporate ladder" as they grow because they tend to focus more on family life and lifestyles. So as females have kids, their focus will most of the time shift from career orientation to family and domestic orientation. There are those women that do focus solely on their careers and I'm sure they get pretty high up there. Your ratios will differ because the selection of qualified males to females drop the higher up you go, being that women will drop out of candidacy because of domestic life.

But I'm not being ignorant that women don't have the glass ceiling in existence but I tend to think that women (as a whole) have just as much of a chance (regardless of what race they are) to be just as successful as your white male. Like all things, there will come a time... just need to keep on moving and keep pushing on.

[bu villain]

Agreed that family is a possible explanation, however this doesn't explain minority males lack of representation.

[AirMax95]

Agreed that family is a possible explanation, however this doesn't explain minority males lack of representation.

Reply coming soon.....

[BanginJimmy]

Agreed that family is a possible explanation, however this doesn't explain minority males lack of representation.

Maybe it has something to do with black males having the lowest HS graduation rate of any other demographic. Kinda hard to break into the upper echelons of society when you forgo an eduction in favor of prison time.

[Total_Blender]

Maybe it has something to do with black males having the lowest HS graduation rate of any other demographic.

And what are the reasons behind this, and what should be done to correct it?

You could say the schools in predominantly Black areas are underfunded... why are the schools underfunded?

Maybe its low tax revenues in the areas with bad schools. Ok, why are the tax revenues bad?

Low incomes in areas with low tax revenues. Why are incomes low in these areas?

Could have something to do with a lack of minorities with wealth and leadership opportunities in their own communities.

A lot of these questions don't have simple/concrete answers. Poverty and lack of education opportunities are a self-perpetuating, vicious cycle. Where you have one you almost always have the other, and they feed off of each other. Add to that that not every case is the same... some people move up on the social mobility ladder, some people move down. The best we can do is to try to identify and work to correct the common factors that contribute to poverty and the lack of education opportunities.

[BanginJimmy]

And what are the reasons behind this, and what should be done to correct it?

You could say the schools in predominantly Black areas are underfunded... why are the schools underfunded?

Maybe its low tax revenues in the areas with bad schools. Ok, why are the tax revenues bad?

Low incomes in areas with low tax revenues. Why are incomes low in these areas?

Could have something to do with a lack of minorities with wealth and leadership opportunities in their own communities.

A lot of these questions don't have simple/concrete answers. Poverty and lack of education opportunities are a self-perpetuating, vicious cycle. Where you have one you almost always have the other, and they feed off of each other. Add to that that not every case is the same... some people move up on the social mobility ladder, some people move down. The best we can do is to try to identify and work to correct the common factors that contribute to poverty and the lack of education opportunities.

half way through your post I thought I was going to have to make ill advised comments, but in the end I agree 100%.

I seriously doubt we will agree on a fix though. I believe welfare programs are the #1 contributing factor in generation after generation living in poverty.

I do find it very hard to put much blame on schools though. Funded or not, a school does no good if the students are not there.

[ahabion]

half way through your post I thought I was going to have to make ill advised comments, but in the end I agree 100%.

I seriously doubt we will agree on a fix though. I believe welfare programs are the #1 contributing factor in generation after generation living in poverty.

I do find it very hard to put much blame on schools though. Funded or not, a school does no good if the students are not there.

Agreed. Also, students NEED to know that the education is there for them. If they show up, apply themselves, they will earn their education and move on. Even if a very, very small percentage of teachers were not knowledgeable in certain things (or may not be paid that well), they still have more knowledge to pour into their students.

[Total_Blender]

I seriously doubt we will agree on a fix though. I believe welfare programs are the #1 contributing factor in generation after generation living in poverty.
.

I can understand this point of view, even if I don't completely agree with it. Any kind of social assistance that comes in the form of a handout also needs some kind of program designed to encourage people toward self sufficiance.

Instead of just having a gov't check, have a gov't check + a mandatory "life skills/job training class,". With a lot of people on social services, its not that they don't want to work, its that they don't have the most basic skills necessary to find a job, or they can't be reached by e-mail/telephone. At the jobs where I've been able to review the incoming employment apps, a lot of them were really, really bad. While filling out forms correctly isn't necessarily included in the skill set for "Operator: Deep Fry I", any good manager is going to be just a little selective about applications.

[ahabion]

...a lot of them were really, really bad. While filling out forms correctly isn't necessarily included in the skill set for "Operator: Deep Fry I", any good manager is going to be just a little selective about applications.

ROFL That's just funny right there.

[bu villain]

And what are the reasons behind this, and what should be done to correct it?

You could say the schools in predominantly Black areas are underfunded... why are the schools underfunded?

Maybe its low tax revenues in the areas with bad schools. Ok, why are the tax revenues bad?

Low incomes in areas with low tax revenues. Why are incomes low in these areas?

Could have something to do with a lack of minorities with wealth and leadership opportunities in their own communities.

A lot of these questions don't have simple/concrete answers. Poverty and lack of education opportunities are a self-perpetuating, vicious cycle. Where you have one you almost always have the other, and they feed off of each other. Add to that that not every case is the same... some people move up on the social mobility ladder, some people move down. The best we can do is to try to identify and work to correct the common factors that contribute to poverty and the lack of education opportunities.

exactly. Of course a handout alone won't solve the problem but neither will allowing someone to be dead broke. It's nice to think that without welfare people would become really motivated, work hard, and pull themselves up but more than likely the rest of us are just gonna end up paying for them anyways in jail.