no one is agrueing that the entire system is fucked, but universal healthcare is the LAST thing that would help. Look at how well run medicare is, then I would like 1 person to tell me that that would be ebtter and cheaper than the current system.
no one is agrueing that the entire system is fucked, but universal healthcare is the LAST thing that would help. Look at how well run medicare is, then I would like 1 person to tell me that that would be ebtter and cheaper than the current system.
medicare is run like crap, you still have to pay out of pocket 20% and its sad that at least 15-20% of the money paid out is falsy billed by the provider, i personally saw this all the time. a lot of americans who have moved to france love theri healthcare and childcare, and ive heard mixed things on canada and the uk, but hey it's better than nothing at all. i know from talking to travelers from canada they were so scared of getting hurt while in america b/c of the bill. it's gonna be hard to mix the system b/c too many companies make too much money and thats what it boils down to.Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
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So why would you want the govt to tell you what doc to goto, how often you may see the doc, and what procedures you should get?
my aetna hmo already told me what to do , denied me for getting trigger point injections which i still really need. thew would not pay for meds early even though occasionally id run out early so it's abt the same as what ive seen. i will tell you this story though, st francis hospital in columbus ga has the best heart dr's in the area. many many people were sent from other hospitals for heart issues to surgery, the ER etc, if they had Cigna ins(and i forgot the other company) they would refuse treatment or send you a hefty bill and deny you financial assistance on a 100k bill. the sad part is when you are insured you are suposed to go to the nearest hospital, and half the time they don't pay, which in turn sends many americans into bankruptcy. the points you make already exist, ins wont pay before 30 days, you have selected "in network" Dr's, and half the time you don't get the treatment you need. last time i had ins and went to the er i asked for an mri due to my pinched nerve and wanted to see why i get certain sysmptoms, denied, cant do it have to get a ct scan instead, then was reffered to a pain clinic for trigger point injections, denied again by ins, hell they didn't even want to pay for physical thereapy. and the bad part is i still have bad neck problems.
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Universal healthcare in essence isn't a social program like medicare; they are using buying power to provider better healthcare at a good rate. Healthcare comes down to buying power - rates are determined by that and previous conditions. Only people opting for this healthcare will be using it; if you work for a Fortune 500 company you shouldn't have a damn thing to worry about b/c your healthcare should already be nice, but if you work for a privately owned business like mine then you are probably paying out the ass for OK healthcare (luckily my wife has excellent healthcare for the both of us). This would allow people like me to seek better rates/healthcare; obviously most opposed to this haven't tried buying a plan or insuring their employees before.
I think the real question is why wouldn't you want to have access to better healthcare if you could?
Paul "your bullshit makes the flowers grow"
If it isnt a social program then what would you call it? It sounds to me like the taxpayers are going to paying for a healthcare program to people that cannot afford it. So who is going to pay the employer portion and who is going to pay the employee portion of it(if you think of it as a health insurance program you would get at work)? I know for a fact that I will be paying some portion of it and I just might cancel my insurance through work to take advantage of this cheaper plan. If I am going to pay for it anyways I might as well use it.
The bolded area is a complete lie. What about the fact that i will be paying for it? My taxes will go up, or they will create a new tax that i will have to pay to pay for this. Obama said he was going to put a 634B "down payment" on it, this program will cost at least that much on a yearly basis. That comes down to an extra $1811 per human being in this country.
Healthcare is expensive, but this plan will do nothing to change that because it doesnt address a single reason for healthcare being expensive. It doesnt do anything to take care of indigent care as many people will still not be able to affrd this healthcare plan. It does nothing to address skyrocketing malpractice insurance and liabilities.
Of course I would, but I would also expect to pay more for it also. Just because I want it doesnt mean I can afford it or have any right to it. I want a Rolls Royce, but if I can only afford a Hyundai then thats all I get. At least its not a Geo. Face it, if you can afford the high costs you can get an outstanding healthcare plan. If you can only afford a major medical plan then thats all you get. You dont have a right to a portion of my money just so you can have a better insurance plan that you can actually afford.
anything the gov spends tax dollars on is a social program - so you use social programs and institutions everyday that are gov funded. is it the same a medicare? no. and everyone is going to have to pay for it... shit my tax dollars go to pay for education... i don't' have kids why should i pay a dime?
i'm sorry how are your personal taxes going to go up? i haven't seen anything on they raising all tax brackets... i guess you make over 200k a year.The bolded area is a complete lie. What about the fact that i will be paying for it? My taxes will go up, or they will create a new tax that i will have to pay to pay for this. Obama said he was going to put a 634B "down payment" on it, this program will cost at least that much on a yearly basis. That comes down to an extra $1811 per human being in this country.
it addresses the cost of healthcare - reforming healthcare is like reforming our tax system you can only make small strides a highly flawed systemHealthcare is expensive, but this plan will do nothing to change that because it doesnt address a single reason for healthcare being expensive. It doesnt do anything to take care of indigent care as many people will still not be able to affrd this healthcare plan. It does nothing to address skyrocketing malpractice insurance and liabilities.
Paul "your bullshit makes the flowers grow"
But you made my point. If I use these programs I have no problem paying for it.
I know Obama has been a little short on details, imagine that huh, but I havent heard how this is going to be any different than medicare. And again, why should I pay for a healthcare plan I am not using? You dont drive my car, do you want to throw in a few bucks per check to help me pay that off? I'm not asking for much, just 4% or so of your gross income.
I agree, why should be we pay for schools we dont have kids to send them too. Just like my sis in law who pays out of pocket for private schools. Why should she pay for her neighbor's kids to goto school, then go abck and pay for hers seperately.
No, you havent SEEN anything, but when you add another 634B a year to the budget where do you think that money is going to come from? Once again, Obama has been a little short on details on how is he planning to pay for all of new spending he wants. Remember, he is also supposed to cut the deficit by 50% in 4 years also. I dont think its a very large jump to assume that my taxes will either go up, or their will be a new tax on everyone to pay for this.
It does nothing to address the cost of healthcare. All it does is transfer the cost of healthcare to others. That is transfer of wealth, that is socialism. Plain and simply, EVERYONE's taxes are going to at least 50% by them time Obama gets out of office. For those that make over 250K a year, the increase will be about a 100% increase.
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