OBAMA Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

[Paul]

The problem with that is the defination of life. Is a fetus an independant life, or is it an extension of the mother?

it doesn't matter how you want to skin the cat it still is PERSONAL INFRINGEMENT - why don't we ban circumcisions b/c its cruelty to children? point being if you want to claim stance due to PERSONAL INFRINGEMENT then you should also be PRO CHOICE. i'm sure reps are having a field day w/ this so i just want to point out the obvious holes in such logic.

[BanginJimmy]

it doesn't matter how you want to skin the cat it still is PERSONAL INFRINGEMENT - why don't we ban circumcisions b/c its cruelty to children? point being if you want to claim stance due to PERSONAL INFRINGEMENT then you should also be PRO CHOICE. i'm sure reps are having a field day w/ this so i just want to point out the obvious holes in such logic.

It is personal infringement if the fetus is not considered to be a living being, but if the fetus is considered a baby then it is not personal infringement.

[SL65AMG]

Truth. If you have an intruder/home invasion scenario your best weapon is going to be a handgun or shotgun. And the statistics show that you are far more likely to get shot with your own gun than you are likely to shoot an intruder.

Personally I think the whole "Home invasion" thing is hogwash. If you know what you are doing (putting valuables/jewlery/checks in a safe, etc) the theives won't be able to get much. They might get your blu-ray of your plasma TV, but really for all the investigation/runaround/etc is it worth shooting somebody over that?

you are missing the entire point. who gives a fuck if they steal all of your shit, you shouldn't be worried about that as much as you are to be worried about your family's safety. the point is to keep your family safe!!!!

(insurance companies buy you new shit, they cant buy you a new brother/sister/father/mother/ etc etc.....)

and you say that "statistics show that youre more likely to be shot with your own gun than you are likely to shoot an intruder...." show me these statstics, and not from some government organized propaganda machine.....

are you retarded??? you point the barrel away from yourself...... DUH....

ok in all seriousness.....

thats BULLSHIT!!!


come break into my house and well see who gets shot by my gun.....





and with the "assault weapons",

its peoples choice what kind of guns they want to buy..... its not your place to decide what other people do. PERIOD.

[Paul]

its peoples choice what kind of guns they want to buy..... its not your place to decide what other people do. PERIOD.

there are lots of things the gov decides for us and this is no different. it isn't that big of deal; there is obviously problems w/ assault rifles on the streets. furthermore be glad we can even own a gun; try getting out of the US there are many countries where you can't own a gun... and i'm going to take a stab at it but i'm sure they all have lower gun death rates.

[81911SC]

there are lots of things the gov decides for us and this is no different. it isn't that big of deal; there is obviously problems w/ assault rifles on the streets. furthermore be glad we can even own a gun; try getting out of the US there are many countries where you can't own a gun... and i'm going to take a stab at it but i'm sure they all have lower gun death rates.

I wouldn't go that far. Look at D.C. and Chicago's crime rates. CC and handguns are banned there but they are nearly leading the nation. Also, owning a gun is a right but it's also a privledge. Not everyone can get them. People who have earned the right by standing on the right side of the law can. Can't say illegally buy them because that happens anyway and no way to stop it.

[Paul]

I wouldn't go that far. Look at D.C. and Chicago's crime rates. CC and handguns are banned there but they are nearly leading the nation. Also, owning a gun is a right but it's also a privledge. Not everyone can get them. People who have earned the right by standing on the right side of the law can. Can't say illegally buy them because that happens anyway and no way to stop it.

i didn't mean here in the US i meant i'm sure the countries that don't allow gun ownership have less gun fatilities

[81911SC]

i didn't mean here in the US i meant i'm sure the countries that don't allow gun ownership have less gun fatilities

I know, I was just saying in a smaller scale.

[Frög]

ok, why do you need a Corvette? I mean a Civic will get you to work . But why buy a Corvette? The Corvette is 100 times faster, and much more dangerous, so lets take those away and mandate everyone drives a civic to work with limit of 100hp.

Assault Rifles serve alot of purposes, not just home defense.

By your guys thinking , lets outlaw all 9mm, .40 because a .45 will stop a person much faster than a 9mm or .40.

Statistics prove that AR and people that own them are not criminals. You take away the LEGAL guns, the ILLEGAL ones will still be there. sorry.

This is a power play by the liberals and Holder is full of shit on mexico

Its late, I have to wake up at 5:30am to go to work..

But I read this, and fuck me silly that's a darn good analogy..

[Big Baller]

I don't really have the energy for this right now, Ill just say this.

I don't need the goverement makng any more decisions or taking away any more of my rights....if they want to make changes then they can start giving some more back.

[SL65AMG]

i didn't mean here in the US i meant i'm sure the countries that don't allow gun ownership have less gun fatilities

Britain's crime rate has skyrocketed since the ban on handguns.... explain that one



theres a lot more to owning a gun than "self/home defense"....

do you REALLY think the govt wants to ban guns because it will make us "safer".....fuck no. they could give a shit about the "safety", they just use that as an excuse because it makes you...i mean the sheep, feel all good inside.

[Total_Blender]

and you say that "statistics show that youre more likely to be shot with your own gun than you are likely to shoot an intruder...." show me these statstics, and not from some government organized propaganda machine.....

.

Kellermann AL. and Reay DT. "Protection or peril? An analysis of firearm-related deaths in the home." N Engl J. Med 1986. 314: 1557-60.
Abstract An epidemiological study of all gunshot deaths (N=743) reported in King County, WA from 1978 through 1983 gathered data from medical examiner case files, police records, and interviews with investigating officers. Among the 398 deaths occurring in the residence where the firearm was kept, only 2 (0.5%) involved an intruder shot during attempted entry. Seven persons (1.8%) were killed in self-defense. For every case of self-protecti- on homicide involving a firearm kept in the home, there were 1.3 accidental deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides involving firearms. Handguns were used in 70.5% of these deaths.


So, as it turns out... you or your loved ones are even more likely to use a gun for suicide than in a successful defense against an intruder. This is not the only article out there (Kellerman alone has at least 3 other studies like this one), and this is just a tiny abstract from the article.

[_Christian_]

The Truth About AK-47 Firepower

Glad I got mine already

[nreggie454]

LOL at the idea that US gun laws will affect ANYTHING dealing with Mexican drug cartels.

[BanginJimmy]

i didn't mean here in the US i meant i'm sure the countries that don't allow gun ownership have less gun fatilities

Maybe you are right and gun deaths go down, although, but all other foms of violent crime do go up. Murder is one of those violent crimes. If you are dead you are dead, I dont care if you were killed with a gun, knife, or a baseball bat.

Short article I found about Australia.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15304

Another article comparing Morton Grove, IL which banned firearms and Kennesaw which required them.
http://www.thebisch.com/archives/200...saw-revisited/

[preferredduck]

ok, why do you need a Corvette? I mean a Civic will get you to work . But why buy a Corvette? The Corvette is 100 times faster, and much more dangerous, so lets take those away and mandate everyone drives a civic to work with limit of 100hp.

Assault Rifles serve alot of purposes, not just home defense.

By your guys thinking , lets outlaw all 9mm, .40 because a .45 will stop a person much faster than a 9mm or .40.

Statistics prove that AR and people that own them are not criminals. You take away the LEGAL guns, the ILLEGAL ones will still be there. sorry.

This is a power play by the liberals and Holder is full of shit on mexico

good point, you take way the guns of law abiding citizens and we cannot defend ourselves from the criminals who will still have thier guns

[Frög]

The Truth About AK-47 Firepower

Glad I got mine already

Good video!

[preferredduck]

Good video!

agreed

[VIP Style]

thats what im saying, its really not that big of deal, if somebody wants something, they will get there hands on it anyways legal or illegal.

it isn't that big of a deal - what is the need to have an assault rifle? other than possible sport/hobby nothing. if someone breaks into your house your going to pull our your ar15 to hunt them down or your glock?

don't get me wrong i really want an AK47 but life isn't going to end if i don't have one.

[BanginJimmy]

thats what im saying, its really not that big of deal, if somebody wants something, they will get there hands on it anyways legal or illegal.

Exactly right. This is why gun bans lead to more crime. Its not like taking a gun away from a legal owner will ever keep any off the streets. All it will do is lead to unarmed law abiding citizens being poweless against armed criminals.

[ahabion]

there are lots of things the gov decides for us and this is no different. it isn't that big of deal; there is obviously problems w/ assault rifles on the streets. furthermore be glad we can even own a gun; try getting out of the US there are many countries where you can't own a gun... and i'm going to take a stab at it but i'm sure they all have lower gun death rates.

Socialism and communism isn't all its cracked up to be.

Start taking away our constitutional rights like owning arms, and they'll start taking away other rights as well. You know when they get a little they want it all... that's just human nature.

Nationalized healthcare is not good either. That means the government will run the show, not independent healthcare practices or insurances. What's that mean for you? That means a bunch of politicians are sitting around a board room, who know nothing about you, reading your medical profile and asking themselves if your [insert any illness/handicap/injury/etc.] is worth spending money on. Then they tell you what doctor you'll see, what price YOU will pay, what procedures will be done, what steps you'll take, what drugs you'll be prescribed, what your post-ops will be, what you'll eat and drink while at home, what follow-up doctor you'll see and what social worker you'll be reporting to... and thats all from nationalized healthcare...

Imagine everything else... all the other basic rights that we have, stripped away from you and the government telling you how to live, what to eat, when to sleep, and worst of all... what car you'll drive... and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Geo!

Let's not take our rights for granted... I think that may be one of the major issues we're seeing.

[Vteckidd]

Socialism and communism isn't all its cracked up to be.

Start taking away our constitutional rights like owning arms, and they'll start taking away other rights as well. You know when they get a little they want it all... that's just human nature.

Nationalized healthcare is not good either. That means the government will run the show, not independent healthcare practices or insurances. What's that mean for you? That means a bunch of politicians are sitting around a board room, who know nothing about you, reading your medical profile and asking themselves if your [insert any illness/handicap/injury/etc.] is worth spending money on. Then they tell you what doctor you'll see, what price YOU will pay, what procedures will be done, what steps you'll take, what drugs you'll be prescribed, what your post-ops will be, what you'll eat and drink while at home, what follow-up doctor you'll see and what social worker you'll be reporting to... and thats all from nationalized healthcare...

Imagine everything else... all the other basic rights that we have, stripped away from you and the government telling you how to live, what to eat, when to sleep, and worst of all... what car you'll drive... and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Geo!

Let's not take our rights for granted... I think that may be one of the major issues we're seeing.

[preferredduck]

Socialism and communism isn't all its cracked up to be.

Start taking away our constitutional rights like owning arms, and they'll start taking away other rights as well. You know when they get a little they want it all... that's just human nature.

Nationalized healthcare is not good either. That means the government will run the show, not independent healthcare practices or insurances. What's that mean for you? That means a bunch of politicians are sitting around a board room, who know nothing about you, reading your medical profile and asking themselves if your [insert any illness/handicap/injury/etc.] is worth spending money on. Then they tell you what doctor you'll see, what price YOU will pay, what procedures will be done, what steps you'll take, what drugs you'll be prescribed, what your post-ops will be, what you'll eat and drink while at home, what follow-up doctor you'll see and what social worker you'll be reporting to... and thats all from nationalized healthcare...

Imagine everything else... all the other basic rights that we have, stripped away from you and the government telling you how to live, what to eat, when to sleep, and worst of all... what car you'll drive... and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Geo!

Let's not take our rights for granted... I think that may be one of the major issues we're seeing.

our rights have been stripped away fom us ever so slowy(much faster over recent years) and there is more to come, eventually they will want a full arms ban, but i don't think the peolpe will surrender that easily.

[Total_Blender]

That means the government will run the show, not independent healthcare practices or insurances. What's that mean for you? That means a bunch of politicians are sitting around a board room, who know nothing about you, reading your medical profile and asking themselves if your [insert any illness/handicap/injury/etc.] is worth spending money on. Then they tell you what doctor you'll see, what price YOU will pay, what procedures will be done, what steps you'll take, what drugs you'll be prescribed, what your post-ops will be, what you'll eat and drink while at home, what follow-up doctor you'll see and what social worker you'll be reporting to... and thats all from nationalized healthcare...
.

Replace every occurrence of "government" or "politician" with "insurance company" and that would be a pretty accurate description of what we have now.

I'm all for universal healthcare. Fuck the insurance industry. Yeah, I said it.

[BanginJimmy]

Replace every occurrence of "government" or "politician" with "insurance company" and that would be a pretty accurate description of what we have now.

Not exactly. I can still decide to get an elective surgery now, under the universal healthcare plan there will no longer be elective surgery. Also the idea of an independant group to "moniter the quality of healthcare" like is says in the bailout will do nothing more than remove choices of procedures.

I'm all for universal healthcare. Fuck the insurance industry. Yeah, I said it.

I cant afford the additional taxes. Just look at hat Obama is proposing already. 634B as a down payment. How long do you honestly think it will take for this to turn into a yearly cost?

[ahabion]

Replace every occurrence of "government" or "politician" with "insurance company" and that would be a pretty accurate description of what we have now.

I'm all for universal healthcare. Fuck the insurance industry. Yeah, I said it.

While true, atleast you have independent doctors that you have a selection of to go see. If there is a specialist that is needed, you have the freedom to pick and select a specialist from a list of "in-network" or "contracted" doctors/physicians rather than going to a government regulated doctor who may not even know what the issues are once you get there. When there is competition within the market, there are offers of more value. Once you take away the competition, the value of service or goods goes out the window.

And rather than having a group of bureaucrats deciding my operation or someone else's, I'd rather have a group of medically inclined people like registered nurses or doctors calling those shots within a hospital ER.

Agreed however that I hate insurance companies, but they are what they are... insurance and its a real b**** when you have something that goes down and you don't have insurance. But again, another example of freedom of choice to have or not have insurance.

Just thought about this, but in the event someone along the chain f***s up, you can sue the insurance company or surgeon or what not in today's system... what is there you can do within a government regulated health system? Who do you go after? The Feds? I'm sure there will be some type of regulatory system, but I really don't want government knowing my business more so than they already know.

[81911SC]

Can we get back on the original damn topic?

[ahabion]

Can we get back on the original damn topic?

haha so sorry.

But just an example of when they take away Constitutional rights, that they'll continue to take more of our rights away that make us America.

[81911SC]

haha so sorry.

But just an example of when they take away Constitutional rights, that they'll continue to take more of our rights away that make us America.

I know that and agree but make another thread.

[Frög]

Can we get back on the original damn topic?

Here is mine:





I am changing it though, I don't like the front fore grip because the gun is front heavy.. Going to switch to black polymer..

[BanginJimmy]

front heavy isnt all that bad though. It will help you keep it stead during rapid firing.

[Frög]

front heavy isnt all that bad though. It will help you keep it stead during rapid firing.

True, less front lift.. But I like the simplicity of the AK.. At first, I wanted to change every part on it, but now I am almost becoming an AK purist..

Idk, I am not really worried about modding it.. I have it, and that is all that matters right now..

Just waiting on my 2500 rounds coming in.. Then I will be happy..

They are in sealed tin's.. These can be stocked up for decades!

[BanginJimmy]

I want to pick up an M4 myself. How much for a 2500rd box?

[Total_Blender]

While true, atleast you have independent doctors that you have a selection of to go see. .

Even with a universal healthcare plan I would think there would be HMO's to provide supplemental coverage, and doctors who will still take cash should you decide the gov't plan is not good enough for you.

I think a universal plan would be better for most Americans who are already paying too much for too little coverage to their private insurance. And the millions of part time workers, students, etc who aren't offered private insurance.

And if we did have a good plan for all Americans the employers wouldn't have to shell out for private coverage and have to dick around with the unions (UAW, etc) as much.

[Frög]

I want to pick up an M4 myself. How much for a 2500rd box?

its 640 rds per box, I got 4... Lets just say that it cost more than the gun.. Probably could of bought a M4 for it..

Ammo prices are sky rocketing.. You can't find any and the cheapest in stock now is ammoman.com..

They want $299 for 500rds of Federal and not in sealed tins.. I got Wolf sealed tins.. I did get them at a good price compared to these though..

[BanginJimmy]

damn, that place is more expensive than wal-mart for target rounds for my Glock.

edit: Just got back from wally world and bought the last 4 boxes of 40 they had. Is it just me or is it getting really ahrd to find ammo in stock lately?

[Frög]

damn, that place is more expensive than wal-mart for target rounds for my Glock.

edit: Just got back from wally world and bought the last 4 boxes of 40 they had. Is it just me or is it getting really ahrd to find ammo in stock lately?

Ammo is impossible to find..

They are trying to pass a new law that ID's every bullet.. Prices are going to be 10x as much.. Stock up!!!

[SL65AMG]

Ammo is impossible to find..

They are trying to pass a new law that ID's every bullet.. Prices are going to be 10x as much.. Stock up!!!

exactly..... you guys should really look into reloading. if you plan on buying any kind of quantity the its cheaper that way.





24 lbs of powder ( loads about 7000 rounds of .223 @ 24 gr. per round )
$354.00

6000 rounds of 55gr Jacketed bullets
$450.00

3000 rounds of once fired military brass
$347.00

5000 primers
$150-apprx


cost PER round(reloaded): $.27

cost Per round(buy from store-if you can find it):

Bass pro shops - 50 gr remington UMC (40 rds-$23.99) = .60 cents per round
Sportsman's guide.com - 55 gr federal FMJ (150 rds- $82.97) = .55 cents per round

etc etc....




you have to buy a reloading press which is about $250. load 2k rounds and the press had paid for itself and the ammo is still cheaper.

[Frög]

exactly..... you guys should really look into reloading. if you plan on buying any kind of quantity the its cheaper that way.





24 lbs of powder ( loads about 7000 rounds of .223 @ 24 gr. per round )
$354.00

6000 rounds of 55gr Jacketed bullets
$450.00

3000 rounds of once fired military brass
$347.00

5000 primers
$150-apprx


cost PER round(reloaded): $.27

cost Per round(buy from store-if you can find it):

Bass pro shops - 50 gr remington UMC (40 rds-$23.99) = .60 cents per round
Sportsman's guide.com - 55 gr federal FMJ (150 rds- $82.97) = .55 cents per round

etc etc....




you have to buy a reloading press which is about $250. load 2k rounds and the press had paid for itself and the ammo is still cheaper.

You and I have to talk.. I never looked into doing this but I need to now.. Where do I buy everything I need for 7.63x39? And where do I buy the press?

[SL65AMG]

You and I have to talk.. I never looked into doing this but I need to now.. Where do I buy everything I need for 7.63x39? And where do I buy the press?

The press you can buy at bass pro shops or online or at gun shows.

RCBS rock chucker master kit.... comes with powder measure, scale, lube pad, press and a few other misc things. i dont remember exactly..... but its got everything you need.

its not too fancy like some of those Dillon Precision turret presses(which are sweet by the way, youtube them) but its sturdy.... between my dad and I weve put about 50-60k rounds through his rock chucker and its still looks and works great

stay away from Lee presses, my best friend got one and the press itself is decent but the parts like the powder measure and powder scale are cheap POS's. and theyre plastic....



dies you can buy at gun shows or online.... or even at bass pro or other sporting goods stores.


as far as buying components....

Midway USA

has tons of reloading stuff and components( brass,bullets, powder etc....)

Hi-Tech Ammunition

they've got a lot of components too.... just have to look and find what you need.

Pats Reloading

theyve got mainly bullets and brass as well as a few other things i think.

Widener's

these guys have everything


Powder Valley

pretty self explanatory, but they do sell other stuff.... i ordered powder and bullets from them....



there is one problem though, 7.62x39 is a real BITCH to find stuff for.

you can ONLY load BRASS or NICKEL plated brass. NO STEEL cased ammo ( i.e.- WOLF ammo)

get yourself a Speer reloading handbook and the rock chucker kit and go from there.....

[SL65AMG]

one other thing, stuff is selling through the roof right now and A LOT of stuff is sold out or on backorder. its better late than never to start reloading, but now its hard to find stuff.....