WOW Obama at work.

[BanginJimmy]

the point is to close gitmo and try them in US courts. where I'm sure they will be found guilty and punished accordingly.

Most cannot be tried in US courts because of the national secuirty implications. Because of the way the info was gathered (not even speaking out interrogation methods yet) most of the evidence cannot be used in court. If they do try to hold trials for these people in a civilian court nearly all would be found not guilty by an impartial jury.

most of these fuckers are just waiting for a death sentence anyway,

Most have no yet been tried, and now they wont be tried.

but torturing anyone undermines our constitution.

Define torture.

and when that happens, terrorists win. they are willing to die in gitmo for it, and it happens... which means they are winning. torturing and killing does not make us superior if that is what they are after to begin with.

How many people have been tortured to death in Gitmo. Please state your source also.

[Total_Blender]

Define torture.
.

This is exactly what the Obama administration needs to do. They need to step up and say "yes we will abide by the Geneva convention," and they need to establish definitive rules for dealing with all those suspected of "terrorism". The rules for dealing with terrorists don't necessarily have to conform to Geneva 100% but there should at least be some transparency in how these guys are being dealt with.

If we are supposed to be a "beacon of hope and liberty to the world" or whatever, we need to start reflecting that in the way we handle these people. If we use torture then we really aren't any better than they are. If the situation were reversed and some of the things like waterboarding, stress positions, sleep deprivation, religious desecration etc that have happened at GITMO had happed to American POW's in Iraq or Afghanistan you all would definitely call it torture, would you not?

[BanginJimmy]

This is exactly what the Obama administration needs to do. They need to step up and say "yes we will abide by the Geneva convention," and they need to establish definitive rules for dealing with all those suspected of "terrorism". The rules for dealing with terrorists don't necessarily have to conform to Geneva 100% but there should at least be some transparency in how these guys are being dealt with.

If we are supposed to be a "beacon of hope and liberty to the world" or whatever, we need to start reflecting that in the way we handle these people. If we use torture then we really aren't any better than they are. If the situation were reversed and some of the things like waterboarding, stress positions, sleep deprivation, religious desecration etc that have happened at GITMO had happed to American POW's in Iraq or Afghanistan you all would definitely call it torture, would you not?

A good friend of mine was a Marine Sniper and went though SEER school and was waterboarded. I asked him about it after all of the talk of waterboarding started and he basicly told me it sucked, but it wasnt anything that serious.

I do agree, though, Obama needs a solid and definative policy on how terrorists will be treated. His current idea of trying them in american courts is a joke by all standards as at best these 'suspects' are military prisoners and guilty of war crimes (perfidity).

[Maniacc]

Define torture.

Are you fucking serious dude?

Define torture? Being tied down and punched to a coma is torture... Anything other than that is beyond torture and imo not necessary. If someone decided to commit murder - what purpose is there for giving him a death sentence?

There is none. Let him live a miserable life is prison...

Just for the sake of me probably laughing my ass off at you... what do you consider torture? Please answer with mad details.

[BanginJimmy]

Just for the sake of me probably laughing my ass off at you... what do you consider torture? Please answer with mad details.

The UN defination suits me pretty well.

1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm


Waterboarding does not fall into the realm or severe pain of suffering. Neither does sleep deprivation or solitary confinement.

[Total_Blender]

The UN defination suits me pretty well.



http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm


Waterboarding does not fall into the realm or severe pain of suffering. Neither does sleep deprivation or solitary confinement.

I would think it should fall under the definition of torture... the UN does use "mental" in their definition.

[BanginJimmy]

I would think it should fall under the definition of torture... the UN does use "mental" in their definition.

They also use severe and I dont think simulating drowning falls into that catagory. Now if they were dunking them under water and holding them there for even a few seconds I would call that torture. I know it is a very fine line, but I believe there is a line there.