NSA listening in on americans calls...

[4dmin]

new book coming out w/ NSA employees stating they were commanded to spy on americans making calls all over the middle east including our soldiers....

this is the same organization/setup that bush stated was just spying on terrorist actions but this is completely untrue.

even calls coming out of the green zone in iraq with soldiers calling their wives/family were recorded and listened to. this included pillow talk conversations of soldiers and loved ones in america.

what is your take on this? discuss.

[willum14pb]

whoever gets elected needs to investigate this fully and throw everyones ass in jail including the president if no warrant was obtained. ****ing bull****.

[DrivenMind]

USA PATRIOT ACT FTW

[Total_Blender]

USA PATRIOT ACT FTW

Yep, we really need to get the PATRIOT Act repealed and our civil liberties that the current administration has taken away restored. Habeas Corpus, and the 4th ammendment FTW.

[Alan®]

honestly not surprised in the slightest. Its a security measure to make sure no information is being leaked out. a lot of guys going over there now are buying international cellphones/satelite phones so it makess things harder to keep a lid on. we are in a war where intell is the greatest asset we have.

[DrivenMind]

honestly not surprised in the slightest. Its a security measure to make sure no information is being leaked out. a lot of guys going over there now are buying international cellphones/satelite phones so it makess things harder to keep a lid on. we are in a war where intell is the greatest asset we have.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

So we're going to treat the men and women who are "defending" us, as though they've done something criminal?

Here's the 4th for you, in case you've forgot;
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

This silly pretend war is not an excuse to violate civil liberties under the pretext of "national security". The people that committed the atrocities of 9/11 were Saudi. Not Iraqi, and our government treats everyone, even our own people with contempt.

[Alan®]

this is gonna sound crazy but you're comparing apples to oranges.you're compaing the laws that govern civilians to the laws that govern service members. the militaryplays by its own rules. by you're logic anyone that reads a classified breifing and then goes out and talks about to someone without clerance and gets caught and prosecuted for it is having their freedom of speech rights violated.

[Vteckidd]

we are at war, if you have nothing to hide then dont worry about it.

sorry

[metalman]

we are at war, if you have nothing to hide then dont worry about it.

sorry

Sorry but thats about the most retarded response possible to this issue. No offense to your personally, I just find this appalling.

No 'war', especially the current nonsensical one, warrants trampling under foot the constitution and individual freedom of citizens. Its not about having anything to hide its about the fact that ALL citizens should have the right to private conversation UNLESS there is just a TRUE and just cause and then proper legalities should be followed ie. warrants, court orders, etc and then only when there is a reasonable cause.

Whether you know it or not, or agree with it or not, attitudes like this make it possible for your own government to a$$fvck you...and without any lube either.

The Adolf Bush administration has sought in the name of this so called 'security' which really ISNT BTW, to screw Americans out of their freedoms.
Our country marches slowly and steadily away from the founding principles of our nation. What saddens and disgusts me the most is when citizens actually cheer this process on, or ask for it.

[Alan®]

Sorry but thats about the most retarded response possible to this issue. No offense to your personally, I just find this appalling.

No 'war', especially the current nonsensical one, warrants trampling under foot the constitution and individual freedom of citizens. Its not about having anything to hide its about the fact that ALL citizens should have the right to private conversation UNLESS there is just a TRUE and just cause and then proper legalities should be followed ie. warrants, court orders, etc and then only when there is a reasonable cause.

Whether you know it or not, or agree with it or not, attitudes like this make it possible for your own government to a$$fvck you...and without any lube either.

The Adolf Bush administration has sought in the name of this so called 'security' which really ISNT BTW, to screw Americans out of their freedoms.
Our country marches slowly and steadily away from the founding principles of our nation. What saddens and disgusts me the most is when citizens actually cheer this process on, or ask for it.

Let me ask you a question. Do you still lead your life the way you did 10 years ago? Do you feel the incesint need to constantly look over you're shoulder?

[metalman]

Let me ask you a question. Do you still lead your life the way you did 10 years ago? Do you feel the incesint need to constantly look over you're shoulder?

Well that was two questions.
The first is irrelevant to this discussion.
The answer to the second question is no.
However, I am fully aware that our country is slowly sliding away from its foundation....a foundation that my ancestors fought and died for.
I place a high value upon individual freedom and liberty, whether that be
civil liberty or religious liberty. (freedom of conscience)

Some place little or no value on such principles. Some place complete trust in the government to attend to those issues and follow blindly its lead. Its my firm opinion that such an approach will ultimately have fatal results.
My views on this issue fall in line with the likes of Patrick Henry and Benjamin Franklin.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government — lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - P.Henry

[ahmonrah]

so overthrown the government.....if the government no longer works for the people, its against them. (thats my best G.W phrase i can come up with)

[blacknightteg]

we as a nation are slowly becomming socialist IMO, look how slowly they are taking away liberties and such.

[Alan®]

i agree with you on that. IMHO this election only determines how much faster we get there. Under obama it will be faster and under Mccain it will be slower but i think we will get there eventually

[ahmonrah]

we as a nation are slowly becoming socialist IMO, look how slowly they are taking away liberties and such.

we've been led to slaughter for years(75), the fastest changes have been underway during the last 30 years. and now we're aproaching the final stretch. when a "superpower" borrows money from a "3rd world country" to operate, that's when shit has hit the fan, and is getting way to hit the taxpayers in the face...

[BanginJimmy]

The Patriot Act is a joke, but I dont see why people blow it up to be somethign it isnt. Do you people honestly think someone actually listens to the phone call? No they dont, the call is "recorded" by a computer as it searches for key words. If no key words are used then the call is 'deleted' and no one ever hears a thing. Calls that do hit the appropriate key words are then filtered again to get rid of more useless calls. After that then they MIGHT be listened to by a real person. So if your pillow talk is about bin laden, and a nuke weapons cache in Tikrit, then there is a SMALL chance it might be listened to.

Oh and its obvious no one here has been overseas. EVERY phone has a sign on it saying that all conversations are subject to monitoring, just like they are when you make a phone call from your workplace.

[4dmin]

The Patriot Act is a joke, but I dont see why people blow it up to be somethign it isnt. Do you people honestly think someone actually listens to the phone call? No they dont, the call is "recorded" by a computer as it searches for key words. If no key words are used then the call is 'deleted' and no one ever hears a thing. Calls that do hit the appropriate key words are then filtered again to get rid of more useless calls. After that then they MIGHT be listened to by a real person. So if your pillow talk is about bin laden, and a nuke weapons cache in Tikrit, then there is a SMALL chance it might be listened to.

Oh and its obvious no one here has been overseas. EVERY phone has a sign on it saying that all conversations are subject to monitoring, just like they are when you make a phone call from your workplace.

this was being used before the patriot act b/c i have a friend in military that used to work on this as a programmer. the problem is they were listening in on phone calls that weren't triggered but b/c they were told to. there were even inner office joking about pillow talk conversations military soldiers were having w/ spouses... honestly that is just wrong and an invasion of privacy.

[BanginJimmy]

the problem is they were listening in on phone calls that weren't triggered but b/c they were told to. there were even inner office joking about pillow talk conversations military soldiers were having w/ spouses... honestly that is just wrong and an invasion of privacy.

This is invididuals doing it then, not the laws put in place. It is highly wrong though and I would hope that people wouldnt just let it go as a joke and would do soemthing about it.

[4dmin]

This is invididuals doing it then, not the laws put in place. It is highly wrong though and I would hope that people wouldnt just let it go as a joke and would do soemthing about it.

from the news report on the book coming out they were told per upper in command to listen on everything including civilian conversations that weren't under criteria for what we were made to believe.

[BanginJimmy]

from the news report on the book coming out they were told per upper in command to listen on everything including civilian conversations that weren't under criteria for what we were made to believe.

If that is the case then its complete BS. I just find it very hard to believe that it went to the point that the command asked that man hours would be wasted like that.

[tony]

Ehh, strangely I gotta agree with Jimmy on this one. Especially monitoring the phone calls of soldiers.. there is some pretty sensitive information in that area and it is serious business.

The soldiers know what it is, I just had to fill out the paperwork for clearance and you know when you sign up what your responsibilities are.. information is NOT to be compromised.

Illegal wiretaps in the U.S though, I'm against. You're opening a can of worms by relaxing the 4th amendment in the name of "Safety and Security"

[DrivenMind]

You guys should watch the movie I just posted in the videos section. It's a pretty crazy idea I know.

We're not headed for socialism, we're headed for a dictatorship. Slowly but surely we're surrendering our rights to the very people, who waste what we give them.

When we go broke and make no misteak about it, we will go broke. Our government will have no choice but to declare martial law to sustain order. Unfortunately our nation will by then be truly broke, and I suspect, be vulnerable to all sorts of twisted ideologies, and more irrational human violence.

Get it right. We kill way more of them than they kill of us. They aren't really that big of a threat. Period. End of Story. We do almost whatever we want in the world right now, and pretty soon we can get down to brass tax, and start subjecting our own citizens to penalties, and imprisonment for rejecting or disagreeing with the way our government handles things.

We don't have to monitor who claim to protect us. We have to monitor the ones who govern, and wish to control us.

[SPOOLIN]

live with it, you'll never know when its happening to you, what does it matter. Don't talk about bombing your local embassy and you'll be fine.

[GTScoob]

Hell yeah, good old fashioned SIGINT data collection.

It's all in the name of national security, but you have to balance personal liberties with government control in order to keep the stability. Yes its privacy invasion but if you dont have anything to worry about why are you angry?

You boys should know that if you're talking about anything illegal to get a pay-by-the minute phone and change out the sim car frequently. And if you're worried about them tracking your emails, simply save your intended message in the drafts and share your password and ID with your correspondant. No mail sent, no mail tracked. Terrorists do this stuff all of the time.

The intelligence community's biggest secret is the full extent of its methods and capabilities. Just because these wiretaps are illegal and will not be admissable in court does not mean that they cant be used to grant warrants and provide confirmation of guilt.

And to the guys saying that America is becoming a socialist big-brother state:
1. Look up democratic socialism, I dont feel like educating you about it. It works.
2. Would you grant terrorists the same freedoms and capabilities that you recieve? This one shit hit particularly hard with people bitching about long lines at customs, border crossings, and airport security.
3. Do some more research on the intelligence community, including congressional oversight mechanisms and separation of power within the intelligence community.
4. You might even want to look up how coalition governments operate, because if anything thats what our system is going towards IMO. This country will never have a dictator, unless you consider a dictator a president with an unfalteringly loyal Congress backing his every decision.

Hey Metalman, instead of posting up some wikipedia quote, go read some John Locke, Thomas Hobbes or Adam Smith. They've got a lot better quotes regarding personal liberties, guarantee and protection of private property, and the role of economic role of the government. Google Hobbes' "Social Contract" and see how Smith updated it. These guys died 300 years ago but they're ideas are still incredibly relevent.