Obamanomics - Fascist/Statist New Deal II

[willum14pb]

Technically, it would be New Deal III

Anyways, not sure if anyone had posted up a thread going through Obama's campaign website rhetoric - but here's his economy page...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

It's essentially a huge power grab for the federal government, while dealing a death blow to the 10th Amendment (which has already been tossed under the buss and run over a few times).

I believe that America's free market has been the engine of America's great progress. It's created a prosperity that is the envy of the world. It's led to a standard of living unmatched in history. And it has provided great rewards to the innovators and risk-takers who have made America a beacon for science, and technology, and discovery…We are all in this together. From CEOs to shareholders, from financiers to factory workers, we all have a stake in each other's success because the more Americans prosper, the more America prospers.

Alright, so it started out great. Individualism brought about the greatest prosperity (for everyone) the world has ever seen. And then he jumps into Collectivist rhetoric? WTF?

Barack Obama and Joe Biden will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills.

That's right, steal from those who generate wealth.

This relief would be a down payment on the Obama-Biden long-term plan to provide middle-class families with at least $1,000 per year in permanent tax relief.

In other words, the profitable will always be subsidizing everyone else.

This relief would include a $25 billion State Growth Fund to prevent state and local cuts in health, education, housing, and heating assistance or counterproductive increases in property taxes, tolls or fees. The Obama-Biden relief plan will also include $25 billion in a Jobs and Growth Fund to prevent cutbacks in road and bridge maintenance and fund school re*pair - all to save more than 1 million jobs in danger of being cut.

So much for Federalism - the rich will subsidize the poorly run state governments.

Obama and Biden will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama and Biden will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama-Biden proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

He's pretending as if IRS employees work for free. To him, they probably do.

Obama and Biden will create an Advanced Manufacturing Fund to identify and invest in the most compelling advanced manufacturing strategies.

Make no mistake - this is a new govn't institution.

The Obama-Biden plan will increase funding for federal workforce training programs...[and] also create an energy-focused youth jobs program to invest in disconnected and disadvantaged youth.

Youth programs, awesome.

The Obama-Biden plan will create new federal policies, and expand existing ones, that have been proven to create new American jobs. Obama and Biden will create a federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) that will require 25 percent of American electricity be derived from renewable sources by 2025, which has the potential to create hundreds of thousands of new jobs on its own.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden will address the infrastructure challenge by creating a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank. This independent entity...will receive an infusion of federal money, $60 billion over 10 years, to provide financing to transportation infrastructure projects across the nation. These projects will create up to two million new direct and indirect jobs and stimulate approximately $35 billion per year in new economic activity.

Riiiight, because I'm sure legislators will be amazingly accurate in putting that money in all of the right places.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden support doubling federal funding for basic research

Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we can get broadband to every community in America

..by subsidizing it, and in effect, creating more monopolies in local markets.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden will eliminate all capital gains taxes on start-up and small businesses to encourage innovation and job creation.

But become too successful, and we'll penalize you.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden will support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by creating a national network of public-private business incubators.

Sweet jesus, yet another government institution.

Obama and Biden will create a Homeowner Obligation Made Explicit (HOME) score, which will provide potential borrowers with a simplified, standardized borrower metric (similar to APR) for home mortgages.

"Oh, you mean I'm obligated to pay my mortgage? Who knew!?"

Obama and Biden will create a credit card rating system, modeled on five-star systems used for other consumer products, to provide consumers an easily identifiable ranking of credit cards, based on the card's features.

Honestly, he must think we are stupid.

Cap Outlandish Interest Rates on Payday Loans and Improve Disclosure: Obama and Biden will extend a 36 percent interest cap to all Americans

...so that people in the hood will have to borrow from loan sharks since the local "Fast Cash" place shut down because they were losing money.

Obama and Biden will encourage banks, credit unions and Community Development Financial Institutions to provide affordable short-term and small-dollar loans and to drive unscrupulous lenders out of business.

Obama and Biden will create an exemption in bankruptcy law for individuals who can prove they filed for bankruptcy because of medical expenses. This exemption will create a process that forgives the debt and lets the individuals get back on their feet.

Hmm...somehow I picture people running through a busy intersection in an effort to get hit.

Obama and Biden will create a program to inform businesses about the benefits of flexible work schedules; help businesses create flexible work opportunities; and increase federal incentives for telecommuting.

Obama and Biden will also make the federal government a model employer in terms of adopting flexible work schedules and permitting employees to request flexible arrangements.

Of course you can enact these policies when there's no incentive to be more efficient. "Hey everybody, look at us! You should do the same, even though your business may be less competitive. We don't have to worry about that over here - you'll pay us no matter what!"



Seriously, I joke about this stuff, but it's scary as hell. He quite litterally wants to control the economy wherever he can. People are productive not to create a better life for themselves, but to create a better life for everyone. Oh, and you're also too stupid to make decisions for yourself - the State needs to protect you from your own stupid decisions whenever it can.

[BanginJimmy]

Barack Obama and Joe Biden will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills.

This is my favorite part. It is obvious Obama has ever run a business or he would know that raising taxes on a company simply means that the company is going to raise prices to compensate for that. Anyone with a 9th gade economics class could figure that out.

Obama and Biden will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama and Biden will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama-Biden proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

I have an easier way, adopt the fair tax. I dont want pre-printed tax forms, or the govt anymore in my business than they are now. What he doesnt mention is that with his idea you cant itemize, which means you would be losing thousands in deductions and therefore sending more money to the govt.

[willum14pb]

This is my favorite part. It is obvious Obama has ever run a business or he would know that raising taxes on a company simply means that the company is going to raise prices to compensate for that. Anyone with a 9th gade economics class could figure that out.

[4dmin]

This is my favorite part. It is obvious Obama has ever run a business or he would know that raising taxes on a company simply means that the company is going to raise prices to compensate for that. Anyone with a 9th gade economics class could figure that out.

most companies have raised prices with the economy w/o paying the taxes - what do you say to that?

[willum14pb]

most companies have raised prices with the economy w/o paying the taxes - what do you say to that?

Well, at this point, we're at a current state where that may be happening. But they've gotten so greedy that if you decide to tax them NOW, the price will just go up AGAIN, to compensate for money lost. Making it a worse situation than it already is.

[4dmin]

Well, at this point, we're at a current state where that may be happening. But they've gotten so greedy that if you decide to tax them NOW, the price will just go up AGAIN, to compensate for money lost. Making it a worse situation than it already is.

it definitely is - life isn't getting cheaper. so taxing them is not different then now; at least if they are taxed they can complain about raising cost now they just raise cost w/o explanation

[willum14pb]

it definitely is - life isn't getting cheaper. so taxing them is not different then now; at least if they are taxed they can complain about raising cost now they just raise cost w/o explanation

Well i don't want to give them a reason to raise it even more.. why would anyone? There is a reason they're raising it, greed, but think if they get taxed, greed + someone taking their money + wanting more money = bad.

[v-empire]

wow @ ignorant people.

[4dmin]

Well i don't want to give them a reason to raise it even more.. why would anyone? There is a reason they're raising it, greed, but think if they get taxed, greed + someone taking their money + wanting more money = bad.

ya but i'm noting going to live in fear of taxing major corps... sh!t look at big oil? perfect example. record highs in losing economy - something wrong.

[willum14pb]

ya but i'm noting going to live in fear of taxing major corps... sh!t look at big oil? perfect example. record highs in losing economy - something wrong.

Right, well that's just one point that i dont agree with. There's about 20 i posted.

[Vteckidd]

it definitely is - life isn't getting cheaper. so taxing them is not different then now; at least if they are taxed they can complain about raising cost now they just raise cost w/o explanation

Hey Paul, you heard of this thing called OIL? I think we use alot of it, i may be wrong, but im pretty sure its a neccessity.

LOL

OIL is whats causing prices to go up, nothing else. They are raising prices on goods to deal with 100$+ barrels or oil.

But you prob think its because George Bush said so

[Alan®]

ya but i'm noting going to live in fear of taxing major corps... sh!t look at big oil? perfect example. record highs in losing economy - something wrong.

Not really. And I don't see how anybody can justify singling out one sector of our economy based on them making money

[Vteckidd]

and its worthless to argue about taxes cause some people just DONT GET IT.

ALl they see is Obama say ''Im going to tax the RICH and give to the POOR"

What they dont realize is the RICH to Obama is $250,000 and those are small business owners. Those small business owners will go OUT OF BUSINESS or CUT JOBS because of the extra taxes they are paying, and they will raise prices.

REAL SMART TO DO IN THIS ECONOMY. You dont RAISE taxes to stimulate growth. Thats Econ 101.

Hate them all you want the Rich are the ones that CREATE JOBS. Raising taxes on them will make this WORSE, not better

[v-empire]

Right, well that's just one point that i dont agree with. There's about 20 i posted.

u can vote for McCain. no body cares.

everything you've posted would actually be beneficial for you if you are middle income to mid upper, unless you are super duper rich.

looks like you need some comprehension assistance, or maybe a real education.

[Vteckidd]

u can vote for McCain. no body cares.

everything you've posted would actually be beneficial for you if you are middle income to mid upper, unless you are super duper rich.

looks like you need some comprehension assistance, or maybe a real education.

Dont tell me a fellow small business owner is going to Vote Obama

god help us

[v-empire]

Hate them all you want the Rich are the ones that CREATE JOBS. Raising taxes on them will make this WORSE, not better

u forget this economy is no more within the state, its international.
the rich dont invest within the country anymore, they invest outside the country.. if i was that rich, i would be investing in growing markets to ensure a stronger portfolio.

the lower, middle, and mid upper are the ones who will invest within the country and open small businesses and will spend US dollars within the country.

times have changed and you cant use history as an example to follow.
other countries already know that, other wise their money will still be in the US, but they arent.

[willum14pb]

u can vote for McCain. no body cares.

everything you've posted would actually be beneficial for you if you are middle income to mid upper, unless you are super duper rich.

looks like you need some comprehension assistance, or maybe a real education.

everything huh? So did you read anything? Or just came in ready to call me an idiot? There's maybe two topics in there that would actually help out the middle class, and that' IMMEDIATELY. In the long run, it puts our country further in debt, and hurts us. If you tax these companies off money they've made and are going to keep making, they're going to raise the prices again, to compensate. Cool i get $1000 off the bat to help me with bills.. LOL? $1000? Come on. That's almost as insulting as the $600 bush gave me that we borrowed from china. What do you think that's going to do in the long run? That $1000 will cost me $10000 by the end of the year. How about you actually take the time to think about what your posting before you post it.

[JITB]

lol you all are still on this tax thing..... How many Actual Business owners besides Vempire are there in this thread?

[willum14pb]

u forget this economy is no more within the state, its international.
the rich dont invest within the country anymore, they invest outside the country.. if i was that rich, i would be investing in growing markets to ensure a stronger portfolio.

the lower, middle, and mid upper are the ones who will invest within the country and open small businesses and will spend US dollars within the country.

times have changed and you cant use history as an example to follow.
other countries already know that, other wise their money will still be in the US, but they arent.

Why would anyone invest in a declining economy, and a currency that is devaluing by the day. The economy started to decline because of our debt. Thus people gtfo. That's easy to see. I have invested my money in other money markets over seas. The only money i keep here in cash is money i spend on bills and to eat and drive to work and back. I dont keep cash in a savings. Or in any bank. Especially not in American Dollars.

[v-empire]

i m sorry, maybe im bias coz i went to the same school as Obama did.

buti seem to comprehend his views and so does McCain.

McCain and his posse has pretty much been in office and going back to the 2000 electoral debate which was held at my school then and noticing what happened after they got put in office, they seem to be the only ones laughing to the bank, after pissing off the fed which pretty much told us all to piss off and here we are.

but you lack the comprehension of variables and far sightedness... either both these two are no golden egg for america, and i really dont care who goes into office because change will not happen soon. but look at how qualified mccain is and how long he has ran next to white house.. whom he lost to bush in 2000 who was more qualified that him. Small business or not, i get paid by customers, not myself and taxes.

If Hilary was a republican and her vs Obama, GA would be on Hillary nuts.
thats how its always been here.

[Vteckidd]

u forget this economy is no more within the state, its international.
the rich dont invest within the country anymore, they invest outside the country.. if i was that rich, i would be investing in growing markets to ensure a stronger portfolio.

the lower, middle, and mid upper are the ones who will invest within the country and open small businesses and will spend US dollars within the country.

times have changed and you cant use history as an example to follow.
other countries already know that, other wise their money will still be in the US, but they arent.

Its foolhardy to say that all rich poeple send jobs overseas, thats simply not true.

Look at the statistics, in the grand scheme, VERY FEW jobs are overseas compared to what is here.
The only jobs going overseas are jobs Americans wouldnt do anyway IE sub $10 hour

[v-empire]

Why would anyone invest in a declining economy, and a currency that is devaluing by the day. The economy started to decline because of our debt. Thus people gtfo. That's easy to see. I have invested my money in other money markets over seas. The only money i keep here in cash is money i spend on bills and to eat and drive to work and back. I dont keep cash in a savings. Or in any bank. Especially not in American Dollars.

exactly!

so how is his tax plan affecting you?

[willum14pb]

either both these two are no golden egg for america, and i really dont care who goes into office because change will not happen soon.

i agree.

[v-empire]

Its foolhardy to say that all rich poeple send jobs overseas, thats simply not true.

Look at the statistics, in the grand scheme, VERY FEW jobs are overseas compared to what is here.
The only jobs going overseas are jobs Americans wouldnt do anyway IE sub $10 hour

i didnt say they send jobs overseas.

i said they invest overseas. they could care less about the jobs here or there, they are rich and they are about making money.

look at your large investment firms and banks.

where is the money? you invest in Goldman Sachs and Jp morgan, your investments and mutual funds stays in house? most us these small time investors fundig their investments could care less where it goes, just show them the money and their ROI.

lehman bros.. could have learned to pull out faster and not impregnate a dying real estate business in the states, but history shows that it was the smarter risk to take.... history is pretty much history and just a guidelines these days. even the 4th largest investment firm couldnt speculate the changes in time.

the variables have changed.

[willum14pb]

exactly!

so how is his tax plan affecting you?

I guess i didn't specify. But the more big corporate companies are taxed, the more they're going to charge the consumer to keep up with their greed. Make sense now? Me as a consumer will get royally fisted in the end if this were to take place.

[v-empire]

larger corporation will get taxed from their profits.

if their tax bracket goes up, they dont raise their prices/to make more profits!

they will spend more on gifts, and expenses to lower their taxes...

omg.

and corporate taxes are different from personal income taxes!!

[JITB]

I guess i didn't specify. But the more big corporate companies are taxed, the more they're going to charge the consumer to keep up with their greed. Make sense now? Me as a consumer will get royally fisted in the end if this were to take place.

they have been getting tax breaks for the past what 6 years? And what has happened? Has the prices gone down? Has business increased? has it forced the companies to create more jobs? Where have you been? You raise taxes on the people making the money, and the breaks trickle down to the bottom. You cant go anywhere when the bottom/foundation of the economy cant stimulate it at all.

[BanginJimmy]

larger corporation will get taxed from their profits.

if their tax bracket goes up, they dont raise their prices/to make more profits!

they will spend more on gifts, and expenses to lower their taxes...

omg.

There is no higher tax bracket that I have ever seen. It is simply, make 250k and you pay higher taxes.

If you are in the oil business, you pay a windfall tax.



Someone asked about business owners, my wife is, but I am pretty well into what is going on there. She desperately needs 1 more person to run the front desk, but because of the payroll taxes she cannot afford it.

Obama's plan would raise her payroll taxes, and because she grosses more than 250k a year her taxes would go up even more. That will result in her probably having to cut one more full time position to part time or cut it completely. How is that going to help the economy?

[BanginJimmy]

they have been getting tax breaks for the past what 6 years? And what has happened? Has the prices gone down? Has business increased? has it forced the companies to create more jobs? Where have you been? You raise taxes on the people making the money, and the breaks trickle down to the bottom. You cant go anywhere when the bottom/foundation of the economy cant stimulate it at all.

The tax breaks keep the companies here in the US. When it is cheaper to move your manufacturing overseas and ship your products here then you have to look at the reasons why.

1. Corporate payroll taxes. The payroll side of taxes are the second highest in the world. These alone are killing thousands of jobs a year, even more now that the economy is so slow.

2. Labor costs. Raising the minimum wage will only serve to move more jobs overseas, and cause companies to cut others. Higher minimum wages, means more payroll taxes. Dems dont care about people bringing home more money, they care because if they make more money, they can take more away.

[Vteckidd]

they have been getting tax breaks for the past what 6 years? And what has happened? Has the prices gone down? Has business increased? has it forced the companies to create more jobs? Where have you been? You raise taxes on the people making the money, and the breaks trickle down to the bottom. You cant go anywhere when the bottom/foundation of the economy cant stimulate it at all.

actually,yes prices were down, business/jobs increased. Look at the RECORD UNEMPLOYMENT we had for years, even during a war.

the only reason its going up now is because of the Housing crisis

The bottom cant stimulate the economy when they have no jobs

And to V-Empire.

Lost PROFITS=LOST reinvestment into your business.

Facts are Facts you guys are generalizing everything, again go look at STATISTICS. Ive never heard of a company growing when they didnt make any money With the exception of the oil business, almost EVERY business tries to grow an expand with PROFITS. Guess what happens when those profits are DOWN. SIGNIFICANTLY!?

When a company makes $500,000 in profit, (and we are talking a very small company) you think they just jet set around the country buying big screen tv, bitches, and dayton wheels like Dre? no.

The MAJORITY of them reinvest into their infrastucture whether it be more equipments, better facilities, more jobs, raising wages, etc. they dont send the money overseas LOL

[Vteckidd]

The tax breaks keep the companies here in the US. When it is cheaper to move your manufacturing overseas and ship your products here then you have to look at the reasons why.

1. Corporate payroll taxes. The payroll side of taxes are the second highest in the world. These alone are killing thousands of jobs a year, even more now that the economy is so slow.

2. Labor costs. Raising the minimum wage will only serve to move more jobs overseas, and cause companies to cut others. Higher minimum wages, means more payroll taxes. Dems dont care about people bringing home more money, they care because if they make more money, they can take more away.

I love you, will you marry me.

seriously no homo.

Tell your wife i know how she feels

[JITB]

You all really believe that companies arent sending jobs overseas, and that they are investing their money back into cutting prices and making jobs.... Than there is nothing else i can reply to. Let me know when your spaceship lands!

[v-empire]

the profits you speak off is not significant enough. 500k gross is not considered large enough let alone 500k net. plus its corporate not income taxes, let alone capital gains.

i was referring about larger corporations, those who can afford it (i was keeping it on topic to the OP who suggested increase prices from large corps.)

all in all, both these parties have our concerns in their evaluation, neither of them are trying to screw anyone over like the way its overly implied.
its the media and the nature of politics during an election to slender and present a false notion, the ones that dont will lose.

with more profits such as smaller companies doing 500k a prime example you are right, they put it back to restructuring, not to grow the company per-say, but as a mean of disguising the profits as expenses.

as a small business owner at this time and age, a favoritism vote could lean towards McCains/Bush' doctrines and ideology, just like when i started my other business in 2002 but then i realised after all the hoo haa, i am not the only one trying to scramble for profits, as i get paid most by the lower/middle income class, everyone else is. there has to be a balance in the economy. and i cant think selfishly to be successful.

perception of political ideology is very deceiving, and the reality remains reality.
the reality is, we are in trouble, and we need to change to a more modern approach, and coming from the white house is a start.

if you notice the way the two campaigns are run, of course its harder to see a more leveled participation since we are in a republican state, but if you noticed how the campaigned is fought, tells you about each campaign and how their views on economic and technological war fare that will be like when they are in office.

you see to the top right of this site, OBAMA's campaigned there, facebook,CNN, reuters, msn, myspace, and all over random websites. this is the real deal.... their marketing intelligence on an election perceives their marketing leadership in comparison to issues and deals they have to face while in office.


this shows you that the less powerful, less experienced, minority candidate, is a viable option as a candidate, not just an election that will be won by a landslide favorite where are the tools and support has been left on the table to be taken.

if i would to vote on the day that comes, as i am not sure yet, but i think my risk taking ideology still stands when i smell the cheese is continuously running out. i would want to see a colored person in office in my life time, as i saw tiger woods dominate in a white sport, or lance armstrong winning 7 times, phelps taking 8 golds....in my life time. i saw it.

and it only sets the standards higher for the rest. we get better.

whoever wins the election, i hope they wont disappoint and embarrass us when representing US in these globally connected times like the last president.

[Sport1.3]

[4dmin]

Hey Paul, you heard of this thing called OIL? I think we use alot of it, i may be wrong, but im pretty sure its a neccessity.

LOL

OIL is whats causing prices to go up, nothing else. They are raising prices on goods to deal with 100$+ barrels or oil.

But you prob think its because George Bush said so

that is false statement. oil is a factor but there are tons of factors... living standards and goods just cost more in general. if we could point the finger at one thing like OIL you would see price of everything drop w/ it... say gallon of milk... have prices dropped? No. OIL is under 100$ a barrel why hasn't milk? what are the factors? production cost, competition, regulations, taxes, etc, etc, etc

If Hilary was a republican and her vs Obama, GA would be on Hillary nuts.
thats how its always been here.

great post

[4dmin]

Its foolhardy to say that all rich poeple send jobs overseas, thats simply not true.

Look at the statistics, in the grand scheme, VERY FEW jobs are overseas compared to what is here.
The only jobs going overseas are jobs Americans wouldnt do anyway IE sub $10 hour

WHAT? dude you need to get educated. I'm sorry but that is one of the worst statements you have made. we out source all kinds of jobs from manufacturing, engineering, R&D, etc

you need to get out of the country some. they outsource any job they can hire 2+ more people to do at a lower rate w/o having to offer the benefits we have. if you were a CEO why wouldn't you do the same? A lot has to do with incentives vs cost. There are non to keep these jobs here.

2. Labor costs. Raising the minimum wage will only serve to move more jobs overseas, and cause companies to cut others. Higher minimum wages, means more payroll taxes. Dems dont care about people bringing home more money, they care because if they make more money, they can take more away.

do you know what jobs pay min wage? farming, fast food, retail, etc... which of those are we going to move over seas? don't bother mentioning manufacturing b/c they are already moved over seas.

[BanginJimmy]

do you know what jobs pay min wage? farming, fast food, retail, etc... which of those are we going to move over seas? don't bother mentioning manufacturing b/c they are already moved over seas.

We still do alot of manufacturing here in the US, but its more assembly than the manufacturing of individual parts. Many of those jobs start at a very low wages, between the current minimum wage and the eventual new minimum wage. If we continue to raise the minimum wage, why should a company continue to pay someone $7+ an hour for a job that is only worth 3?

[BanginJimmy]

oil is a factor but there are tons of factors... living standards and goods just cost more in general. if we could point the finger at one thing like OIL you would see price of everything drop w/ it... say gallon of milk... have prices dropped? No. OIL is under 100$ a barrel why hasn't milk? what are the factors? production cost, competition, regulations, taxes, etc, etc, etc

This is true.

We will use milk becuse you brought it up.

Feed for the cattle is more expensive because of the expanded use of ethanol.

Cattle numbers are down as more farmers are seeing more money in growing corn for ethanol. With less cattle, there is less milk from the source.

Transporting the raw milk to be passturized is more expensive because of increased fuel costs.

Packaging the milk in plastic containers is more expensive because plastic is a petroleum product. Also added in the costs of trandporting the packaging to where the pasturizing is done.

Transporting the packaged milk to the grocery store costs more because of the higher gas prices.


My point: Oil isnt the ONLY factor, it is one of many, but oil is still the main ingrediant in many of the individual factors. The other major factor being using food for fuel.

The law of unforseen consequences comes into effect also as more farmers are trading in their cattle to grow corn.

[4dmin]

We still do alot of manufacturing here in the US, but its more assembly than the manufacturing of individual parts. Many of those jobs start at a very low wages, between the current minimum wage and the eventual new minimum wage. If we continue to raise the minimum wage, why should a company continue to pay someone $7+ an hour for a job that is only worth 3?

this is why education is such a key to success of a society. in one breath republicans complain about gov't leeches yet they don't want to support min wage. can you live on min wage? how do you expect others to?

[4dmin]

This is true.

We will use milk becuse you brought it up.

Feed for the cattle is more expensive because of the expanded use of ethanol.

Cattle numbers are down as more farmers are seeing more money in growing corn for ethanol. With less cattle, there is less milk from the source.

Transporting the raw milk to be passturized is more expensive because of increased fuel costs.

Packaging the milk in plastic containers is more expensive because plastic is a petroleum product. Also added in the costs of trandporting the packaging to where the pasturizing is done.

Transporting the packaged milk to the grocery store costs more because of the higher gas prices.


My point: Oil isnt the ONLY factor, it is one of many, but oil is still the main ingrediant in many of the individual factors. The other major factor being using food for fuel.

The law of unforseen consequences comes into effect also as more farmers are trading in their cattle to grow corn.

benefit cost out weigh almost everything... this is where the majority of company cuts have been. oil doesn't compare to benefit cost.