Built 16v or 20v 4AGE

[Capt._Ron]

I bought an 86 corolla GTS with some nice modifications but the stock 16v motor had just thrown a bearing and is knocking ( i got a great deal). I want to spend about $2000 on the motor and I do not know whether to build the stock 16v with forged pistons, cams, rebuilt head, with about 11:1 compression or to but a 20v motor from an importer and swap it in. If anyone has driven moderatley built 16v or 20v you input would be greatly appreciated. This car is going to primarily for autox with occasional drifting.

[Capt._Ron]

I just want the most bang for the buck and I really dont know very much about the various 4AGE engines. Yes I do have a nissan and that probably makes me a ricer especially since its a 240 but it has 300 whp and is fairly clean.
So if any of you guys know anything about the 4AGE's post up!!

[bigdare23]

You might need to get on those AE86 forums, since only a few people on here have one.

[SniperJoe]

I would take a look at the Tech Section of Club4ag. They have some great articles about the different engines.

Personally, I think you may have a difficult time putting a 20v into a Corolla for 2k. At the very least, you are going to need to change water lines, the distributor location, the header and the engine management. That is in addition to the purchase of the engine. If I were you, I'd build the 16v. You will probably be looking at less power than a 20v, though.

[bigdare23]

What this I hear about a silver top?

[Capt._Ron]

yea the motors seem to be running between $800-1100 depending on if its a silver or black top and what is included. Thanks for the input I have already read about all of the tech section over in club4ag and I was just wondering if anyone had personal experience.

[olivertwist]

i would relly like to see it idont have ae86 but i do hav ea ae71 almost the same but looks like a 510 datsun it has a 4ac going to install a 4age this summer club 4age

[Capt._Ron]

i would relly like to see it idont have ae86 but i do hav ea ae71 almost the same but looks like a 510 datsun it has a 4ac going to install a 4age this summer club 4age

Wellf if you need a 16v motor for cheap just let me know because I have 2 4age's right now. I decided to do a complete rebuild on my current 16v with a slightly upgraded valvetrain and cams somewhere around 256. Ive seen the AE71 and they are pretty cool looking. Arent they even lighter than the 86 chassis. I been asking around and I found out that although the 20v is a fairly inexpensive motor its really pretty involved to swap it in.

[SniperJoe]

Unfortunately, I don't have any personal experience driving one yet, but that is due to the fact that from the day I bought my Corolla, I've been doing a frame up restoration of the car. I know a ton about the engine, but I just don't have any seat time in the car yet.

[SniperJoe]

What kind of tuning are you going to run?

[Capt._Ron]

From what ive read megasquirt is cheap and easy but im not sure. Do you have any experience with them?

[SniperJoe]

Unfortunately, I don't. I've read a lot about megasquirt and it sounds like it is an ok system, the disadvantage is that it is basically a DIY. However, I know that there is a company out there manufacturing ready to go megasquirt systems that are a bit easier. I'll try to find that company over the weekend.

[TRDwasiq]

i would say just rebuilt the 16v dont go for the 20v silver or black, thats wht i thinK
its a matter of engine balance too silver or black top are for FWD

[Capt._Ron]

i would say just rebuilt the 16v dont go for the 20v silver or black, thats wht i thinK
its a matter of engine balance too silver or black top are for FWD

Yea the reason the swap is sort of complicated is that they are fwd motors. They are badass though. Yea I think im going to build the 16v or trade the car . Can you run emanage on the 4age? I know that they have a different way of measuring the air coming into the engine than
most fuel injected cars

[TRDwasiq]

use megasquirt i knw they are badass but it will cost u around 2K for everything or more y dont u just built the 16v i am pretty sure you will pass silver or black top

[Capt._Ron]

I am going to build the 16v its just going to take patience ha ha i need to calm down and take my time.

[Capt._Ron]

What are the most aggressive cams I can run if im basically doing a factory rebuild + cams.

[AE86Taylor]

Hey man I think I met you at CCR one day. I have a Silver Top 20V and Megasquirt 2. I'm in the process of swapping it in to my 87 SR5.MY sponsor in Texas Quoted me $550 shipped for a silvertop with harness, ECU, mass airflow meter, igniter, and coil before he sponsored me. You can contact him (Jerry) at http://www.superiortradinginternational.com
Granted that was like a year and a half ago, but I doubt much has changed.


Also, I got my Megasquirt from my other sponsor. http://www.diyautotune.com Just ask for Jerry.

As far as the water line issues, and the dizzy location. There are many alternatives to fix these problems without bashing your firewall. You can run a COP setup using the 24 toothed wheel inside the dizzy with the cap off using decoding software with Megasquirt. You can also run Miata coils or FC RX7 coils using this setup rather than COP. You can also use the Ford EDIS setup by adding a 36-1 wheel to your crank pully (And no, adding the 36-1 wheel to your crank pully does NOT effect you engine harmonics or balance). A little welding can go along way with rerouting waterlines. (Also, running Megasquirt will allow you to run open ITB's)

As far as an exhaust, the stock 16V headers work fine on the 20V. All you have to do is slot the first and last holes in the header flange. I'm going to use the stock 20V header since it is not cast and flows better, by building my own y-pipe to tap into the exhaust.

You can use a GTS flywheel and clutch on the 20V, or if you get a 20V with a stock flywheel, you can use the clutch from a 80's model supercharged MR2.

As far as the engine balance being from a FWD. Not an issue. This engine is tried and true.

And as far as aggressive cams on a 16V. There are quite a few running 304 degree intake and exhaust cams from Toda. The idle kinda blows, but they still due fairly ok on the street. most run 282 degree.

And spending 2K to build you a 16 will net you about the same as buying a silvertop for 600-700 and spending 450 on a fully assembled megasquirt.... just think of what you could do with that extra 900 to 1k you would save...

without my sponsors, total cost for doing my 20V swap (installing it myself) My total cost if I had to pay for everything and without discounts is under 1K. when I'm done I'll have less than 1.5K in it, and I'll have at least 150 to 155 at the wheels on a stock ST. And it will turn 8500 rpm. With cams people are hitting 165-185. Mill the head down or get a smaller head gasket to bump the compression up and you can get closer to 200. A stock 16V makes about 95 at the wheels. even with a rebuild, cams, intake, exhaust, higher compression forged pistons, you might get 150... and you'll spend over 1K for that alone. Not to mention the Sivlertop rods are stronger then the stock 16V ones. (they are good for 18lbs of boost)



Hope all this helps.

[Capt._Ron]

Thanks man for the info. Im getting ready to get started and im I just dont know what to do b/c I hear different things from different people. I didnt know that the 16v manifold bolted right up. When will you be a cool cat next i need to pick your brain on a couple of things.

[SpecV_Scott]

Two of my friends have 20V's in their 86s....both with exhausts and one also with a header. They both put down approx 130whp. They're also both ridiculously loud.

I honestly don't think it's worth the trouble of the swap for that little power. I'd rather rebuild the 16V with forged internals and boost it. It would make WAY more power, and a turbo would quiet down the car immensely.

[AE86Taylor]

No problem man. I don't go to CCR very often. But I'll PM you my number so if you had any questions you can give me a call.


Scott, as far your friends cars being loud, there can ba many factors. Open ITBs are kinda loud any way. But it could also depend on the exhaust. Alot of people don't realize that bolting on a exhaust designed for a 16V 86 will sound totally different on a 20V. Especially a Greddy DD. Plus, 130whp is nice considering the 16V with a header and exhaust on average only nets you about 100-105whp. Plus, with him already having a 16V in the car, there are ALOT of parts he could swap over to the 20V block to help simplify the swap. And, if he's not looking for huge power, the 20V is a great engine to boost. the stock rods are the same rods that are in the 4AGZE engines, so the are pretty tough. There are several people in Austrailia that turbo the 20V even with the stock pistons and can still push 8-10 PSI reliably. To boost more, the only thing he would have to do is get forged pistons. The rods are good for 18PSI and with a proper sized turbo to go with the motor, 250 to 300 reliable HP is possible without sacrificing reliability. Also if he plans to use the car for drifting or autoX, the 20V block is the better way to go. The block comes with piston oil squirters which will further aid in keeping the engine cool. Also the engine's bottom end is better balanced from the factory so maintaining higher RPMs is possible and safer than high RPMs on the 16V. And since I know the car already has a Koyo Rad in it, a 20V would be damn near bullit proof.


Ron if you really want a first hand look at what all is involved with swapping in a 20V first hand, you can aloways come over and I'll let you see the engine and all first hand to help you make a more informed decision for yourself. Plus I'm swapping over to a Manual MR2 rack, so you could check that out too if you want. There is a little more work involved with putting in a MR2 rack that a 86 Manual rack, but MR2 racks are cheaper and easier to find than manual MR2 racks (like 180 for a new 86 rack plus 50-100 for a manual column, compaired to 32 for the MR2 rack out of a junkyard, 35 for a poly bushing, 30-40 for some welding).