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WELL..... I would have to disagree. Roy is a fat boy and if Kimbo can get his aggression in and hard hits to his fat body Roy is going to hurt. I know Roy has more all around MMA, but he was also fighting IFL, not UFC. Should be a good match. Kimbo has now fought UFC fighters, pro boxers, and trained MMA for awhile now. With the shape he's in I might say Kimbo for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bus Driver J
Kimbo's is in good shape? Based on what? His fights against a washed up 50+yr old Ray Mercer? Or how about Tank Abbot (with his impressive 10-14 MMA record), whose won ONE fight in the last 5yrs? Kimbo was also GASSED out after ONE round with James Thompson, and Thompson has ZERO cardio. He is the definition of the word "CAN". You do know that the IFL was a major promotion and had many big names fighting in it, don't you? Guys like Matt Lindland, Pat Militech, Chris Horodecki, Jay Heiron, Tim Kennedy, etc, were all regulars in the IFL. Who and where was Kimbo fighting before he had his first MMA fight? Oh yeah...it was guys from the local Taco Bell in someone's backyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greddypacked
Beyond all that, I'm friend with some of the guys at Randy's gym out in Vegas, and they all told me that Kimbo was extremely slack in the gym. He would skip training sessions, and didn't wanna work on his ground skills at all. He's not exactly the poster boy for work ethic. Can he get better? Yes, he can. He's training with ATT now, and I'm friends with many guys down there too, and they don't fuck around. If Kimbo comes in there and doesn't listen, he'll get beat the fuck down and thrown out, so he has no choice. He better step it up big time, because his lack of skills is very apparent. Hell, Greg Jackson had him picked 14th on a list of 16 fighters, after his evaluation with Rashad. That alone should tell you something.
^ wow dude u just no every 1 don't u? could u please call rampage and see if he will let me in on the drug he takes that makes him run his car into other ppl?
Yes lol all of this you typed I knew but thanks for informing the others that didnt. Kimbo stands his ground, and does hard hitting standup like Liddell does he can win. He needs to play good standup though and not let Roy get to close. Which is pretty much what Liddell did most of his fights and tore their lil head off their socket. We all know standup fighters dont like going to the ground, defending against Brazilian Ju Ju lol, nor submissions. Best way for him to win is use great take down defense and work his standup on him. Im not saying Kimbo will win, but he could.Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingTalon
One of my favorite fighters is GSP... cuz he knows how to fight all MMA and defend. He can take on any kind of fighter and show everyone something new every fight. He pushes himself and has no limit. I say GSP could beat Roy in heavyweight lol.
Anyways fight is 2morrow, lets see how it goes and come back and discuss it :cheers:.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00CIVICSI
I think you are referring to the commercial or preview that is on spike.... and too me it doesn't like that right has a solid connection with Roy (sure as hell not like the punches in the end of Machida v Rampage).
Nah, just a few guys from different gyms I met during seminars over the past 5yrs or so. You have to remember that 5yrs ago, MMA wasn't even very big, so it wasn't like anyone knew who many of these guys are.Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_up
Chuck is actually a wrestler, not a stand up guy. That's why his TDD is good. He trained stand up later in his career, and started to use that COMBINED with his wrestling. He's also much better technically than Kimbo is. Beyond all that, he's a purple belt in BJJ, so he's not exactly clueless on the ground. Kimbo has none of those attributes, and is learning on the job. Not exactly the best thing when you're going into a fight with Roy Nelson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greddypacked
At any rate, I don't see Kimbo moving in and out of the pocket with strikes. His footwork isn't very good, nor does he have really great technical boxing. He does have good power, but his chin was tested by a journeyman LHW who KO'd him, so getting into a fire fight probably isn't that great an idea either. His best bet is to bum rush Roy and put pressure on him the minute the bell sounds, but it's easier said than done. Even the sprawl and brawl tactic will require him to be in really good cardio shape, and there is no evidence to support the claim that Kimbo is in good enough shape to do so.
With all that said, I have a gut feeling that the fight ends up going the distance, and that Kimbo makes it a good fight, but loses a decision. Because of that, he'll earn respect from a lot of people, including other fighters and fans. That's my prediction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greddypacked
Liddell was a division 1 wrestler.... Kimbo isn't going to at that level anytime soon. Liddell is what 40 years old when he fought his last fight? His sprawl and takedown defense had been the accumulation of 20 years of wrestling and mma experience. Please... It's easy to say, "oh, all kimbo needs is some good takedown D just like chuck's and he's good to go". The reality is that yes, if kimbo wants to be a successful standup he needs a solid foundation of takedown def and as well as wrestling (in order to get things back to the feet if they do go down) but the reality also is something such as that takes time and experience to develop. Not likely something that can be taught in the few weeks of TUF. Now if he has been training mma pre-tuf 10 then congrats and i'm sure we will see what he has learned, but it seems he lacks a motivation and work ethic from the rumors to be humble and work on the fundamentals of his weakness.
Sleeping talon hit it dead on. Kimbo has the cannon in his arm to ko someone. Undoubtedly we understand that but he does not have a foundation of fundamentals even in his strengths (boxing). He has raw talent, but that can only get you so far before you must dedicate yourself to learning the technique and fundamentals of the game.
^^^EXACTLY^^^
More off, here is what Tiki Ghosn, who is one of Kimbo's trainers on TUF, had to say about Kimbo's skills when he got on the show...
"He can punch, we all know he can punch but he doesn’t know anything about MMA. He didn’t know how to sprawl. He didn’t know how to get out of a takedown"
The video also shows footage of Kimbo get pushed around the cage like a tackling sled by Matt Mitrione. Tiki does say that Kimbo got better:
"I think as the season goes along you guys will see some pretty impressive things out of this guy."
Madsen liked Kimbo and admired the guy's desire to get better:
"He obviously knew my wrestling was a lot better," said Madsen, a Division II National Wrestling Champion in 2001. "He approached me and said can you show me stuff?' I was real impressed with his humility. He knows he needs to work on his ground game."
Which brings us back to the point, what did Kimbo do during training with Rutten and Khatami?
It's also interesting to hear Tiki talk about why Rampage made Kimbo his first pick. It doesn't seem like Jackson had winning as his No. 1 goal.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cag...urn=mma,191252
So just as I said, he's been very slack in the gym prior to this, and the last few years of him training haven't been that productive. He's in the big show now, so he's gonna have to work extra hard, as he doesn't have the background that most others do. No wrestling, no BJJ, no formal boxing, etc. Work ethic is the key at this point, because his window of opportunity is closing rapidly at his age.
just like when brock lesnar had his 1st ufc fight against frank mir. brock was winning that fight had it not been for frank making him tap out. this guy should fight ufc. david tua. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvMlN758tq0
The same David Tua that fell off the HW boxing map? What would make you think he would be ok in MMA? He would be the best boxer for sure, and he's got really heavy hands, but what would happen when he fought a good wrestler or BJJ guy? He would need to crosstrain A LOT to do well in MMA, or he would get embarrassed. Though I would like to see a REALLY good boxer take the time to get a BJJ black belt, cross train, and take a stab at MMA. Ricardo Mayorga is supposedly signed to make his MMA debut, so that's as close as we're gonna get to an "elite" boxer, but still no dice on the cross training, or the BJJ black belt. He's also probably a bit past his prime, but it's w/e I guess.
I only watched the first episode cause i havent had time to watch the others, but i think the 1st episode summed up UFC to a "T".
WHat i like about UFC is it really is all about balance. You kinda have to know a lot about everything to win. Size does have something to do with it, but size almost means nothing when they get taken to the mat by a smaller opponent that can wrestle/grapple.
The one thing i noticed about Kimbo was that he just isnt that mobile. He seems like hes not very flexible and i dont think hes fast enough to deal with the likes of the other guys.
My .02
i hope kimbo stomps his ass; seems like alot of people want him to fail, but i like the dude he seems hungry for the win and is pretty well spoken (really surprised by his interviews on the show).
you never know on this show last week big out of shape ex-football guy fought evans #1 pick and it went to split decision; size/shape looks like it might be as important as skill this season.
^^^^^^^^^^^same here. if he loses, his fighting career is done for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
so by your logic, kimbo has nothing on roy nelson?
anyways this should be interesting... starting now.
kimbo has some intelligent monologue but i still hold my opinion
Yea man kimbo is really humble and he is def alot different than people thought he was but damn rampage is a funny ass mofo.
kimbo did just get worn out in round 1..i hope he comes back in 2
LOL @ Roy pinning Kimbo's arms down and punching him in the forehead for the last minute of the first round.
Kimbo does look a little better with his standup since he isn't just bum-rushing the guy (so far), but his ground game could use a lot of work.
is it just me or does roy have a perfect kimora lined up on kimbos left arm at 4 min in the 2nd? what the fuck?
KIMBO LOSES...... god was that even a contest on the ground?
lame
anyone have a link for the show today?
Omg roy sucks dick that fat fuck can't even fight he talking all that shi* but that fight was not impressive at all sorry! Also what if we end up having a kimbo vs roy again in the final because some 1 is hurt hmmm...
hopefully kimbo can come back and get his ground game in check. by the ending i think he may be coming back
Roy was playing it really safe. It was obvious he didn't wanna lose position, as he's a BJJ black belt, and wasn't really looking for subs (besides that one americana). No knee on belly, and wasn't even worried about blocking Kimbo's hips to prevent him from shrimping and getting guard back. This was a fight he played out to take the least damage possible so that he's fresh for the next fight.
He would have to train for much longer than the season lasts. He could learn and improve a lot, but he is still faaaaaaaaaaaaar away from being a balanced fighter that could be promising in the UFC.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowazzcord
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingTalon
i understand the game plan but what I'm trying to comprehend is why when the sub is given to you, you dont take it? he was in the crucifix and had a kimora dangling in his face. his right arm was already hooked under, all he would have to do instead of throwing those taps to kimbo's face was grab the wrist and lock his right hand on his left forearm. It's not like kimbo was attempting to move from the position so i dont imagine it would have jepordized anything.
honestly if he is looking to protect himself for a future fight wouldnt a quick sub be the most ideal end?
i agree though... i couldnt stand roy's comments afterards like he was top shit and just tko'd lesnar....
that fight was bullshit. kimbo is going to get another chance. you can tell from what dana white was saying.
i hope not... id rather see marcus fight than kimbo
A win is a win!!! I dont care how it happens.
I agree it wasnt the most glamorous fight but why would Roy (or anyone) put themselves in a bad spot for a "good" fight? Its not like they are at a mian event trying to get fight of the night.
As for everyone that will complain that "he just layed on him and barely hit him", I guess Rampage's team better get a fat ass to train with them. If thats how he going to win fights, so be it. I do think it should have stopped in the first round. That was 27 seconds of unanswered punching. Nothing powerful but still unanswered. He had no way of defending himself.
But, by the way shit is looking, I think he will be back. They wouldnt have gone through ALL this marketing shit with him and he only last 3 episodes. Hell, he even had a role in a Spike Movie as a prisoner. The weird thing about the show so far is that they only show the same 4-5 guys. Sometimes when they show one of the other guys I think its an extra or something, lol.
And like someone else mentioned about Kimbo, I did NOT expect him to be that humble. I thought he was some street hardened gangster that so all about ripping bitches heads off. Wow. He seems like a really cool ass dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bus Driver J
im not sure if this was aimed at my kimora comment but he wouldnt have even had to transition to attempt the kimora.... instead he just slapped kimbo in the face a whole bunch.... i feel it would be more respectable if he had won with a sub rather than a slapping of the face. i dont disagree with herb dean's decision to stop the fight, i simply think roy had like a minute worth of opportunity and he wanted the tko rather than the sub because of how the results would "look" (omgzorz he tko'd kimbo vs he submitted kimbo... we all knew he sucked at grappling).
You don't get in the UFC to be a safe fighter. You get in there to make a name for yourself and to legally pound on people. That fat ass is a PURE BITCH to me. Then he gonna talk shit about being the King. Oh hell naw. I respect his independence on being his own coach and manager but HE SUCKS!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bus Driver J
He didn't go for the subs because his idea was to maintain position and not take risks. Why even bother to go for it when you know you're gonna get the stoppage from your current position? There is no point to doing that.
-Worst case scenario if Roy goes for the sub is that Kimbo scrambles to his feet, and Roy risks the chance of getting clipped (and then has to work for the take down again).
-Worst case scenario from the position he was in is that he maintains and probably gets a stoppage. Remember, Roy is very experienced, and has probably had Herb Dean ref many of his fights. so he has a good idea of how much he'll have to do to get a stoppage.
As far as the Kimura is concerned, he didn't have good enough position for it. If you look to secure the arm WITHOUT stepping over the head (forcing your opponent on his side), the guy will escape. Your leg over their head blocks any escape. This is much different than an Americana, which can finished from side mount, or even half guard. The way that joint manipulates with an Americana, you don't have access to that escape. It also requires less torque on it, as you have to pull their elbow in close to finish it correctly. Roy is a BJJ black belt, and a really good one. Hell, he even sub'd Frank Mir, so he knew what he was doing.
it was just what i expected,kimbo popped him a few times,tubby said hell no took him to the ground and basically gave him love taps to the head and it was over,it was a shitty fight and neither one of them really showed any impressive mma skills. im still pullin for kimbo i would love to see him in the ufc.
LOL, no no no. It wasnt directed at you at all. It was towards the guys who will come in and complain about how Roy is a big tubby and didnt "fight" at all. I did see the kimora, actually a couple times. But I agree with SleepingTalon. Why go for it? Why put yourself in a possible bad spot against someone as dangerous as Kimbo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Verik
BLK JDM:
This is the Ultimate Fighter. Its a reality game show. In chess, do you go gun ho for the king or do you pick apart the pawns then bishops then rooks? When/If he wins the show ans get a contract he can then going for the big knockouts and crazy subs. Win the show safely then fight for big purses. Easy as that.
Another weak ass episode.
This season has been less than impressive, moreso considering they are HEAVYWEIGHTS.
Roy the fatboy didn't do shit other than apply his body weight and Kimbo did not apply any of the escapes moves being taught. Roy was not hitting to win a fight, even when he was in a position of control. I hope Dana White isn't happy with the way this season is going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyFresco
Yea i agree with you on that... Kimbo did get a few punches in and Roy felt them thats when he knew he doesnt need to stand up and swap punches,he needed to take him down... once kimbo was down Roy was pretty much sufforcating him with his belly...lol
BUT OF COURSE KIMBO IS GONNA HAVE ANOTHER CHANCE...:doh:THIS WHOLE SEASON IS HYPED UP B/C OF HIM....
that had to be one of the lamest fights ever i'm glad dana white saw that shit... kimbo has to pickup better take down defense b/c he would of rocked the fuck out of roy in standup. "roy was hitting him like my 9 year old daughter" - dwhite
kimbo = 2nd chance
roy = not going far w/ UFC
I'm disappointed.
A season with nothing but heavyweights and this is the shit we're getting?