What Suspension you Rocking on the Ef?

[southside]

Nope, shes the one pulling in all the money at the moment, soooooo... yeah.

lol couch potato!Naw my girls like that too.But If i keep asking she'll just be like get it.

[cwhiteboy]

[QUOTE=southside]lol couch potato!QUOTE]

LOL, man I wish. I'm trying to start a new business, of course, these things take time.

[N/A EK]

Somone clear this up for me.I heard skunk2 ride like sh*t ,Ksport sucks,kyb GR2s are a joke.

I had the KYB gr2's with skunk2 springs on my 01 civic and drove perfectly fine for me ... had it for about a yr n never had problems.

[00CelicaGT]

^^they have been on my car for 4yrs never had a problem. i dont feel GR2's are a OEM replacement cuz they are alot stiffer than OEM. my setup has been on plenty of mountain runs and autox events in 4 yrs. haven't let me down yet. but hey to each his own.

[jfrolang]

Why wouldnt you buy K-sports?

Because you can get Konis and Ground Controls, a proven and well-established combo, for about the same price. And you'll have all the adjustability you need with whatever spring rates you want.

[bigdare23]

EF hatch


OEM springs/OEM struts

[Black R]

i have apexi n1 coilovers for dc2r - front rates are 11k and rear rates are 16k.
I'm very pleased with them, but they're not for the faint.

i got a great deal on these or i'd have gone with the standard koni/ gc coilover route.....

[southside]

Because you can get Konis and Ground Controls, a proven and well-established combo, for about the same price. And you'll have all the adjustability you need with whatever spring rates you want.

Yea thats true

[cwhiteboy]

i dont feel GR2's are a OEM replacement cuz they are alot stiffer than OEM.

And what are you basing this on, did you buy brand new struts and then switch over to the GR2's. . Your somewhat right though, the GR2's are a little stiffer than factory, but not by much. I had a friend who put brand new factory struts on his ef, and I can remember it becoming pretty stiff compared to my then old worn out struts on my hf.

[southside]

Whats the difference between the Ground Controls Coilovers?Some say they are for konis and others are for stock.Whats different on them?

[StraightSix]

Whats the difference between the Ground Controls Coilovers?Some say they are for konis and others are for stock.Whats different on them?

Koni's lower spring perch is different from other shocks/struts. when you order GC's, you will order them based on the shocks/struts that they will go on, so there is a version for use with Konis and a version for use with dampers that aren't Koni.

[southside]

Well guess Ill be waiting I thought you could get them and ride stock struts.Til I saved for the konis.

[southside]

Anyone had teins before?

[southside]

NObody

[StraightSix]

Teins are crap. They problem with them is that they are engineered for Japanese roads which are much, much more smooth than ours, so the ride ends up being really harsh.

[southside]

thats first tiem ive heard that

[JDMJAYDC2]

i have full skunk2 race coilovers on my hatch smooth to me i love them

[StraightSix]

thats first tiem ive heard that

Probably because you've only ever talked to people who know squat about suspensions and what a good suspension is or isn't. JDM fanboys are all about the Teins because they wouldn't know a well designed damper/spring combo if it bit 'em in the ass. It's very important to make sure that the dampers used on a car can handle the spring rates, bad ride characteristics are the end result of a poorly matched system.

Another thing that a lot of "tuners" screw up is ride height. Too low is as bad for handling as too high. By and large, people with slammed cars are typically too low.

[Black R]

Teins are crap. They problem with them is that they are engineered for Japanese roads which are much, much more smooth than ours, so the ride ends up being really harsh.

y'know i've never thought that tein is crap.

i think the fact is that for an entry level setup like tein basics, people spend $800+ and well that's enough to get into a koni/gc combo. And the tein basics aren't the best quality if you look at the welds. They are ok, but not outstanding. Now if you move up into the RA, RE, etc, then you get a full aluminum body, with all kinds of adjustability, but then again you're spending closer to $2k. Also, the tein basics come with stiffer front springs and relatively soft rear springs - think 11kF and 5kR, which is counterintuitive to our thinking. But they also run staggered tire setups (like 225F and 195R) and large rear swaybars, and of course different toe and camber settings than we do. So all of these things gives them the handling bias they look for (read: no understeer), and the ability to rotate with the throttle.

The thing about japanese roads being smoother is definitely true, but that isn't the main reason I'm not a huge fan of tein - it's the fact that they have such low spring rates off the shelf. But of course I would love to have a set of tein N1 coilovers. Or Zeal Super Functions..... I really like the ability to separately adjust preload and ride height - along with lower perch length; which is something not readily available on most usdm coilover kits.

[jfrolang]

I think that Black R and I can agree here.

[southside]

Probably because you've only ever talked to people who know squat about suspensions and what a good suspension is or isn't. JDM fanboys are all about the Teins because they wouldn't know a well designed damper/spring combo if it bit 'em in the ass. It's very important to make sure that the dampers used on a car can handle the spring rates, bad ride characteristics are the end result of a poorly matched system.

Another thing that a lot of "tuners" screw up is ride height. Too low is as bad for handling as too high. By and large, people with slammed cars are typically too low.

My friend had tein full set up and it handled great and he is pretty damn low .My other friend has tein coilovers and he's slammed his car rides fine with a little bounce but not alot hes also on 14"s.

[jfrolang]

My friend had tein full set up and it handled great and he is pretty damn low .My other friend has tein coilovers and he's slammed his car rides fine with a little bounce but not alot hes also on 14"s.

So you have two friends with Teins that think they like them. What else have they had to compare them to?

[00CelicaGT]

I think that Black R and I can agree here.

X2

[southside]

So you have two friends with Teins that think they like them. What else have they had to compare them to?

Ground controls one liked GC better the other didnt

[LIKEG6]

EGAY FTW

[StraightSix]

Ground controls one liked GC better the other didnt

But, GCs are just an adjustable height spring; the important thing to remember is that the the spring and damper have to work together. If the individual had the GCs on a factory strut, then it is very possible that the strut was poorly matched to the damper and resulted in some unfavorable ride qualities.

The other question to ask is what do these people really know about suspension setup? What one thinks is a good setup will likely change once the person learns what really goes into making a car handle well.

[DeeAOne]

my good friend used to have an EF with APC coilovers on stock struts. before you laugh however, they handle way better than you would think. stiff ride but in the corners it handled pretty well.

[southside]

But, GCs are just an adjustable height spring; the important thing to remember is that the the spring and damper have to work together. If the individual had the GCs on a factory strut, then it is very possible that the strut was poorly matched to the damper and resulted in some unfavorable ride qualities.

The other question to ask is what do these people really know about suspension setup? What one thinks is a good setup will likely change once the person learns what really goes into making a car handle well.

If you say so man, you keep saying it like people dont know a good ride and good handling.

[StraightSix]

Because there are a lot of people who only think they know. Suspensions are complex things, and just because a product is advertised or just sold doesn't make it a good product.

I've learned a great deal, and have plenty left to learn, about springs, spring rates, dampers, damping rates and what does/doesn't work in the past several years. The biggest thing that I learned was that I had little clue as to what makes a good suspension setup and what doesn't. Having the money to buy Teins doesn't mean that person knows squat about suspensions.

Here's something to chew on, if Teins were so great, then why do the top running STS (that's an autocross class) and ITA (raod racing...SCCA specifically) cars all run Konis?

[southside]

Because there are a lot of people who only think they know. Suspensions are complex things, and just because a product is advertised or just sold doesn't make it a good product.

I've learned a great deal, and have plenty left to learn, about springs, spring rates, dampers, damping rates and what does/doesn't work in the past several years. The biggest thing that I learned was that I had little clue as to what makes a good suspension setup and what doesn't. Having the money to buy Teins doesn't mean that person knows squat about suspensions.

Here's something to chew on, if Teins were so great, then why do the top running STS (that's an autocross class) and ITA (raod racing...SCCA specifically) cars all run Konis?

I dont know most people just get it because they say its a proven setup.But my friend that had his teins handled real good.But most people dont autocross anyways just regular drive and a few mountain runs everyonce and a while.

[00CelicaGT]

THEN WHY SPEND SO MUCH ON SUSPENSION... THAT WILL NEVER BE USED IN THE WAY IT WAS INTENED TO BE USED. IT'S A WASTE IMO, BUT THATS JUST ME.

[southside]

Yea thats true but I'd rather have a suspension that people can handle the abuse if need be.Than somthing cheap that wont handle good if I need it to.

[bigdare23]

Yea thats true but I'd rather have a suspension that people can handle the abuse if need be.Than somthing cheap that wont handle good if I need it to.

These cats are in here sharing knowledge on a subject you are lacking on. If I was you, I would listen, but you can do what you want

[green91]

Let him buy the super trendy teins, get the t-shirt, and drive it somewhere that counts. Then wish he'd bought something else!

[Papa_Smurf]

my good friend used to have an EF with APC coilovers on stock struts. before you laugh however, they handle way better than you would think. stiff ride but in the corners it handled pretty well.

i think thats what my dad might have..... i've looked @ them before and i cant tell what they are. But, no joke, they handle GREAT.

any way you could get a pic of ur buddys coilovers for me buddy?

[southside]

These cats are in here sharing knowledge on a subject you are lacking on. If I was you, I would listen, but you can do what you want

Im listening already said I was purchasing konis and GC ,but was just saying my friend likes his teins.

[bigdare23]

Im listening already said I was purchasing konis and GC ,but was just saying my friend likes his teins.

Cool


As for your friend, how many suspension setup has he had? If the Teins was the only one, he has nothing else to compare to. I think thats the point everyone else was trying to make.

[southside]

Cool


As for your friend, how many suspension setup has he had? If the Teins was the only one, he has nothing else to compare to. I think thats the point everyone else was trying to make.

He had ground controls first,then he bought the teins about 6 months later.He has the adjustable teins he got them for 500$

[jfrolang]

Like StraightSix was saying earlier, Ground Controls are just an adjustable height spring system. The spring rates and the dampers that they're matched to have much more to do with ride quality and handling than the brand of the sleeves.

**Just an example** If you bought second-hand Ground Controls with higher than standard spring rates and installed them on worn-out factory shocks, I would bet you'd be unhappy with the ride and think that Ground Controls are terrible. If you were to then replace that whole setup with Teins, it would seem that they're a great improvement.

[StraightSix]

Like StraightSix was saying earlier, Ground Controls are just an adjustable height spring system. The spring rates and the dampers that they're matched to have much more to do with ride quality and handling than the brand of the sleeves.

**Just an example** If you bought second-hand Ground Controls with higher than standard spring rates and installed them on worn-out factory shocks, I would bet you'd be unhappy with the ride and think that Ground Controls are terrible. If you were to then replace that whole setup with Teins, it would seem that they're a great improvement.

Jeff pretty much nailed it. A poorly matched spring/damper combo will have terrible ride and handling qualities. The springs essentially "overpower" the damper and the ride is all bouncy. A well matched system will properly slow the suspension travel in both bump and rebound.

As an example, KYB AGXs are fairly nice dampers, but for EFs they aren't so good. What they did was specify the same part number for the rear of EFs as they did for the rear of DAs, so when you use them on EFs the shock travel isn't quite right. IIRC, they end up bottoming under compression because EFs have less suspension travel than a DA, and when the car is lowered even less.

The point I've been trying to make is that for the money that most people pay for Teins there are much, much better suspension solutions available. Hell, even for what your buddy paid for his Teins, one can find a set of used Konis and GCs and be much better off.