really good start for brawn...
awesome race... good info ej25run.
really good start for brawn...
awesome race... good info ej25run.
I hope it does not stick, as it would be a dis-service to Trulli and Toyota.Originally Posted by 2turbo4u
Quoted from DailyF1...
F1 : Appeal in doubt, but Toyota's claim valid
Trulli's podium lost in technicalities?
Toyota faces an uphill battle to appeal its lost Melbourne podium, but the Japanese team does have a valid case to argue.
Jarno Trulli's third place and champagne celebrations became twelfth on the official classification, after stewards ruled he illegally overtook Lewis Hamilton behind the Safety Car.
The Italian had been running third when the Safety Car came out late in the race, but he dropped behind the McLaren driver in an off-track moment.
"Trulli took back the place under the Safety Car," said McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh at the time of the investigation.
The stewards of the meeting agreed, promoting Hamilton to third, but Trulli insisted that he only passed the Briton because he had "suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road."
"I thought he had a problem," the 34-year-old said, "so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."
The rules permit overtaking under the Safety Car in such circumstances.
The problem for Toyota is the inadmissibility of appeals for post-race 25-second penalties, because if the incident had occurred earlier in the race, the penalty would have taken the form of a drive-through, which is not subject to appeal.
Toyota snuck in its appeal through a loophole, by lodging it not with the stewards of the meeting, but with the local clerk of the course.
The team has two days to formalise its appeal in writing.
If it allows the procedure, the Court of Appeal would be faced with a difficult decision. Hamilton has been quoted by Speed TV as admitting that - after passing Trulli following the Toyota's off - he was then "told (by McLaren) to let him back past."
Hamilton presumably then pulled over and slowed, which would seem to corroborate Trulli's explanation that he only passed the Briton because "there was nothing else I could do."
Rich...Bob...Stan...?????
I would appeal the decision.
What a terrible weekend for Toyota overall.
Tossed to the back in qualifing for illigal rear wing and now this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autosport.com...
Trulli: No choice but to pass Hamilton
By Pablo Elizalde Sunday, March 29th 2009, 12:09 GMT
Jarno Trulli said he had no choice but to overtake Lewis Hamilton in the incident that cost the Italian his third place at the Australian Grand Prix.
Trulli finished in third position for Toyota, ahead of Hamilton, but the FIA stewards gave him a 25-second penalty after the race, deeming he had overtaken the McLaren driver while the safety car was on track.
The disappointed Toyota driver, who had started the race from the pitlane, claimed Hamilton left him with no choice but to overtake him.
"I can't say how disappointed I am to finish third but have the result questioned," said Trulli.
"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race Lewis Hamilton passed me but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road.
"I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."
Team boss Tadashi Yamashina, whose team had already being sent to the back of the grid over a technical infringement, admitted today's penalty was very frustrating.
Yamashina was nonetheless encouraged by his team's performance.
"This is an extremely frustrating way to finish a challenging weekend," he said. "Already we were disappointed to be starting from the pitlane after we were informed yesterday about the problem with our rear wing.
"We responded to that in a fantastic way and we showed that our car has genuine performance."
Jarno Trulli has been re-instated to 3rd place!
Quoted from DailyF1...
McLaren's response..As the chequered flag flew Sunday evening in Melbourne, Jarno Trulli celebrated a fine third position after starting the 58-lap Australian Grand Prix from the pit lane.
The Italian veteran was later handed a 25 second penalty for allegedly overtaking Lewis Hamilton whilst behind the safety car, dropping the Toyota racer to 12th in the results.
Today stewards looked at ‘new evidence’ and concluded that Hamilton had deliberately misled the FIA delegates in Australia. Trulli is therefore reinstated to third position while defending champion Hamilton has been excluded from the results.
A statement issued by the stewards on Thursday evening confirmed that Hamilton and McLaren Mercedes "acted in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the stewards."
The stewards said the conduct was in breach of the International Sporting Code.
The final finishing positions for the opening round of the season are; Jenson Button, Rubens Barrichello, Jarno Trulli, Timo Glock, Fernando Alonso, Nico Rosberg, Sebastien Buemi and Sebastien Bourdais.
Following the news today from Sepang that Jarno Trulli has had his third position in the Australian Grand Prix reinstated and that Lewis Hamilton has been excluded from the results, McLaren Mercedes this evening made the following statement:
"The FIA Stewards have reviewed their decision of Sunday 29th March 2009, and have excluded Vodafone McLaren Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton from the results of the 2009 Australian Grand Prix."
"Vodafone McLaren Mercedes understands that the Stewards made their decision on the basis of reviewing radio transmissions between the driver and the Team."
"The Team mistakenly believed that the radio transmissions had been reviewed by the FIA on Sunday 29th March 2009, and consequently did not believe it was necessary to discuss them with the Stewards on that date."
"Nonetheless, the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team now regrets that it did not do so, accepts the Stewards' decision and will not appeal."
Rich...Bob...Stan...?????
^
This is getting a bit rediculous. I don't like to see this go back and forth this late after the race has happened.
I think the stewards have been too involved with the outcomes of races both last year and this race. They should have left things alone.^
This is getting a bit rediculous. I don't like to see this go back and forth this late after the race has happened.
Rich...Bob...Stan...?????
I have no problem with it at all. Cheating pisses me off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8q27gzS4C4
Here's is McLaren's radio transmission between the team and Hamilton.
This is what caused the FIA to decide that McLaren would be disqualified for the Melbourne GP:
Team: OK Lewis, you should need to make sure your delta is positive over the safety car line. After
the safety car line the delta doesnt matter but no overtaking. No overtaking.
LH: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, ..., is this OK?
Team: Understood, Lewis. Well confirm and get back to you.
LH: He was off the track. He went wide.
Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
LH: OK.
LH: Hes slowed right down in front of me.
Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are
talking to Charlie.
LH: I let him past already.
Team: OK, Lewis. Thats fine. Thats fine. Hold position. Hold position.
LH: Tell Charlie I already overtook him. I just let him past.
Team: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G 5, yellow Golf 5.
LH: I dont have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake.
Team: Yes, we understand Lewis. Lets just do it by the book. We are asking Charlie now. You are
in P4. If you hold this position. Just keep it together.
Team: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrott 2.
LH: Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not.
Team: Still waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.
Team: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.
Team: If we are able to use one KERS that would be good. If you deploy KERS please do so now.
Team: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in,
you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli
thing, but just hold position.
Don't beleive that anybody "cheated". I think both drivers/teams were trying to do the right thing. I do not agree with Hamilton being DQ'd. Unfortunate situation that was not handled very well by the stewards.
Rich...Bob...Stan...?????
I agree. I listened on the onboard and it seems that there was mass confusion by both Lewis and McLaren.
I think McLaren will not let this go that quickly.
found the Toyota transmission but it is hard to make most of it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OohT1HbaEF0
The quality of the Toyota radio doesn't help to clarify much. I couldn't decipher any of that really.
I'm not particularly comfortable with the stewards making changes to the race results this long after the finish of the race, either.
The radio conversation by itself is not why they were disqualified. The brazilian newspaper explains it a lot better.
The FIA held a meeting after the race to discuss Trulli passing Hamilton under the safety car. The decision to punish Trulli was partly based on false information (we don't know exactly what) that McLaren told the FIA, which had specific intention to get Trulli penalized so that Hamilton could get the 3rd place. The radio conversation is proof against something that they had said or knew, but decided to keep quiet during the meeting.
Actually they are quite embarrassed about it. They said they "thought the radio conversations had already been heard by officials before the meeting, so decided not to bring it up." and they "accept the disqualification and will not appeal it".
LOL.. Hamilton just got DQ'd for the race. LMAO.
Why doesn't anyone like Hamilton?
I think i get it now.
The "talking with Charlie" is what we didn't hear and that was where the problem arose. That still doesn't put Hamilton at fault as he just wanted to know what he had to do and didn't instigate. It was all down to the McLaren brain trust.
Anyone? That isn't true.
I have nothing against Hamilton. I'll admit he isn't my favorite driver but his talent is undeniable and his presents has allowed F1 to gain back fans they lost many years ago as well as bringing new ones.
He is unlucky in that McLaren has done some shady things in the past few years and he was wrapped up in the middle of it.
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