AS far as a mass produced car within its estimated price range 70k. What are performance the cars in that price range that are at production level?
AS far as a mass produced car within its estimated price range 70k. What are performance the cars in that price range that are at production level?
Zip, zero, stingy with deniroOriginally Posted by JITB
For the record i have nothing against the GTR, i think it is an incredible accomplishment and is a true supercar.
BUT!
I just don't approve of people bashing Porsche and other fine car manufactures just cause the new kid on the block can throw some impressive #s.
For the Price argument. That's a bit subjective.
You see, what the GTR and the 911 Turbo do well is that they are true everyday supercars. What i mean is that they can and are used as daily drivers with creature comforts necessary for a road car to have.
But if your only goal is the track then you got other alternatives that are cheaper than 45k. For starters if you can come up with $50, Brammo Motorsports will build you an Aerial Atom. But that's on another extreme.
Again, i think the GT-R is a great car but it's not on that level that a Porsche or an Aston Martin is.
Definitely not trying to bash on Porsche, anyone who does is retarded imo but the GTR has them beat right now (performance wise). No doubt they will come back with something to beat it though.
how can it not be on that level, nissan has been makin performance cars for plenty time to know what they are doing. It is posible to make a great car without everything being done by hand. i dont see anyone bashing the porsches. BUt part of a car being good and bad is price.... its always a factor. But the greatest cars have always been the cheapest ones that outperform the expensive ones. .... Thats what the japanese specialize in, taking things/ideas and making it better/cheaper..they have been doing it for centuries.
Nissan got alot of help from outside companies on the GTR. Cosworth helped with the engine and Lotus on the suspension, yes they can go a little bit but the great performance cars are made by people that don't understand anything but the track, not huge corporations.
How else have Porsche, Ferrari, and Aston get to where they are today?
It is. But it is also possible to photocopy a picture of the Mona Lisa millions of times. But to have Picasso paint it is different and much better.
Granted. Porsche are worth every penny. Plus some more.
Um No. Case and point. There are times when an auto manufacture goes past the point of making sense in order to make a great car. To the point where they lose money in order for the car to exist. The Mclaren F1, Porsche 959, Bugatti Veyron and a few others are all guilty of this.But the greatest cars have always been the cheapest ones that outperform the expensive ones. ...
There are times where we can get a "good" drivers car for the price but the greatest cars of all time are typically worth out of reach from the common man because they don't need to make sense. They are more displays of perfection than transportation.
Specialize in? For Centuries?
You obviously don't remember cheap Japanese goods from the 60's and what garbage it was.
Sony and companies like it used to be a joke.
cmon really cosworth and lotus put their hands in soo many cars its almost normal for them to.
I would think it would take more thought to make a car perform so well and still be soo much cheaper, than just throw dollars into a car that is the greatest..any company can do that.
Ill admit, that im not a real porsche freak nor nissan fan. But im on the gtr's side this fight...
I know the japanese made ****ty stuff back than. but the japanese havent really invented much. but they are masters at copying and improving.
That's why everyone goes to them. When i reread what i wrote for the first response, i meant to say companies like Courage (Acura LMP chassis),
Lola (Ford GT40, and so many others that it wouln't make sense for me to label). One of the companies from Japan that gets little credit where allot is due is DOME, who helped design the first Le Mans prototypes from Japan.
What i'm trying to say is that great cars and technolgies are born on the track > They are then transfered to the very best and most expensive street cars > Finally after a long time when prices come down, they make there way to average street cars. Take carbon ceramic brakes. Gordon Murrey first used them on his Brabham in the 70's and 30 years later we have $50,000 cars that have them (Option on Cayman S).
.....Built down to a price. What you are telling me there is the same thing Ford is saying with the modern Mustang. "We could have given it IRS, but we chose to save you $5,000. Well, that's just not a logic i use in making a car. You make it right the first time and put a price label on it. That's not saying price it at $300,000+ but saving money is not something that makes a great car if it's missing what's important.
I am a fan for both.Ill admit, that im not a real porsche freak nor nissan fan. But im on the gtr's side this fight..
But that is because i'm a racing diehard and historian. I believe history and heritage is one of the most important elements of a sports car. Porsche history is second to none and the Skylines of old have had great success as well.
This isn't a "fight", Two great cars with two different approaches to the same thing. It's subjective but the GTR has to do allot more than to post some good laps at the ring.
If you really want to see it through my eyes. Here's what you need to see.
The most important event at the ring is the Rennin24 and here are the cars that won it the past two years.
2007 Porsche 911 GT3-RSR Manthey Racing
2006 Porsche 911 GT3-MR Manthey Racing
To make it interesting for the IA crowd. Toyota will enter a team of Lexus LF-As into the 2008 event.
I know Nissan runs 6 cars in the SuperGT GT500 series in Japan. But those cars are running 3.5L V8s and have more aero than GT1 cars.
For the Nissan to make a hit where they need to go Racing and succeed.
1. Make a GT1 car to go against the ALMS Vette and Aston.
2. Make a GT2 car to go against the F430 and GT3-RSR
3. Make Sure to use the VR38....(Regulations will force this but im just sayin.)
Last edited by EJ25RUN; 04-26-2008 at 08:40 AM.
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