Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: How the US fell out of love with its cars

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    ‹^›‹(̣¿ó)›‹^›
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Power
    30

    Default How the US fell out of love with its cars

    Not exactly a "news" story... but dunno where else to put it.

    Tail fins and chrome grilles were once the symbols of a superpower. Now, with 36,000 jobs cut in a week and foreign vehicles filling the highways, Paul Harris in New York surveys the collapse of an industry

    Sunday January 29, 2006
    The Observer

    For John McVeigh, making cars was not just a job; it was his shot at the American Dream. He had left Glasgow a young, wide-eyed man at 21 and ended up in Detroit, lured by the huge factories churning out the cars that defined 20th century US life.

    He started on the factory floor and rose through the ranks. When he retired in 1989 he was part of the management; he had brought up four good children and lived in a nice house in the suburbs. His neighbours' life stories mirrored his.

    But after a week in which Ford laid off 30,000 workers and shut 14 factories, McVeigh knows his story is now part of history, like the homesteaders or the goldrushers, a way of life his grandchildren will never know. He winced at the news. 'You can't do what I did now. It just could not happen again,' he said in an accent still coloured by his Scots childhood. The statistics tell a bleak story of economic disaster that has seen a whole corner of north-east America dubbed the Rust Belt. The Big Three - Ford, General Motors and Chrysler - have declining market share, crippling pension costs and a product line reliant on deep discounts to sell. Chrysler has been taken over by the Germans and GM posted a $8.6bn loss last week, its biggest since 1992. Ford has been losing market share for 10 straight years. Last week's news was so bad that few people noticed DaimlerChrysler quietly announcing it too was axeing 6,000 staff. At the same time, foreign firms have been invading.

    In 1979 the Big Three sold nearly nine out of every 10 new vehicles on US roads. By 2004, as European and Asian firms ate away at their market, only about 50 per cent of the nation's new cars were sold by US producers. By October 2005, cars made by the Big Three accounted for about 40 per cent of the US market, according to Forbes. Toyota, Honda and Korean Hyundai had all made inroads. Even that US archetype the truck saw 30 per cent of its market go to foreigners.

    The US car industry is lurching into terminal decline. It means a fundamental part of America has died as well. Nothing has come to symbolise the American century more than the American car. It began with Henry Ford and the Model T and went right through the tail-finned monsters of the Fifties and the hot rods of the Seventies.

    American cars were about freedom, sexual liberation and sheer confident patriotism. For young Americans a driving licence and their first Chevy or Ford was the most important rite of passage into adulthood. The car gave birth to other American icons: the motel, the advertising billboard and the diner. They were all children of the road.

    Of course, the car still defines a lifestyle. Americans still buy cars by the millions, whether they are in gridlocked LA or in the middle of Kansas miles from the nearest town. But what does it mean when a country's cultural heart is now made in Japan? Or Korea? Or Germany?

    On a stretch of Texas highway west of Amarillo lies Cadillac Ranch. Planted in a field of wheat are 10 rusting Cadillacs, ranging from a 1949 Club Coupe to a 1963 Sedan. All stand face down in the earth, enormous tail fins pointing defiantly at the sky. They hail from an era when the Cadillac motto was 'The Standard of the World'.

    Motorists in their thousands pull off the Interstate in their Hondas and Toyotas to gawp at the sculpture that has stood there for 32 years: a row of automobile tombstones. 'When we made it, Cadillac Ranch was intended to be as much a monument to the glory of the tail fin as a burial of the gas guzzler, said Chip Lord, one of the artists behind what has become one of the most famous US public works of art. 'But that's not how people see it these days.' When Lord and his fellow artists collected the Cadillacs for their work, they toured the Texas panhandle looking for cheap deals. Driving the huge beasts to Amarillo was a 'white trash dream come true,' he says.

    Back in 1974 the cars' paint gleamed under the blue Western skies. Now they are rusted and covered in graffiti. 'Perhaps it can be seen now as a sign of the decline of the American empire,' Lord mused. 'It could become a symbol for it.'

    Lord now drives a Honda: 'I know the thrill of being on the road in one of those old American cars, but the fact is that if you drive one you quickly realise how archaic they are.'

    The thrill used to be all anyone cared about. American cars had names such as Mustang, Charger and Javelin. They were about moving forward, at speed and damn the consequences. The size of the engine and the roar it made cruising down the road were all that mattered. The American car was the ultimate expression of the self.

    It was a story that begun at the start of the 20th century in Detroit, when Henry Ford, born on a Michigan farm, mass-produced the Model T. He changed not only his own life from rural poverty to urban riches, but the country's too.

    In thrall to the car, America went from a farming-based society centred on small- town morality to an industrialised behemoth where the new cultural hero - personified by Ford himself - was the big city capitalist. The new frontier was not out on the open range or staking a homestead, it was on urban streets and the new horse was a car. Detroit became Motown - Motor City.

    From the beginning, America's cars were just as much lifestyle as they were practical. In the Twenties, Ford Motion Pictures was the biggest film producer in the world, spewing out more than 3,000 movies celebrating the adventures to be had behind the wheel of a Ford. Product placement is no newcomer to the film industry; it was there at the birth.

    In the Fifties and Sixties, brimming with post-war confidence, America entered the age of drive-in cinemas and suburbs geared around cars. James Dean drove a 1949 Mercury in Rebel Without A Cause and Steve McQueen tore through the streets of San Francisco in a 1968 Mustang in Bullitt. JFK was shot in a Lincoln Continental. Car advertisements featured open roads, blue skies and square-jawed fathers piloting wives and children along new Interstate highways (the biggest public works project in the history of the world). American cars were the best in the world because America was the best in the world.

    It ended in the 1970s with the Oil Shock. Suddenly America - and its cars - were vulnerable. Rob Latham, a popular culture expert at the University of Iowa, was given his first car at the same time. 'It was a 1963 Chevy Malibu convertible. I was 16 years old, driving this huge gas guzzler right through the middle of the oil crisis when you were only allowed to buy petrol every other day. It was nuts,' he said. 'I later wrapped it around a telephone pole, but I loved that car.' He now drives a Suburu.

    The same thing happened to Detroit. The 1970s triggered the decline of the American car industry and a landscape of huge factories and skyscrapers turned into an urban wasteland. Only last week, the downtown home of Motown records, whose music was born from black workers flocking to the city for the car factory jobs, was bulldozed.

    America's tempestuous affair with the car has become a passionless marriage. Americans still need their cars, but the world has changed and they no longer really love them. Chrysler was taken over by Germany's Daimler. Japanese firms, such as Toyota and Honda, are opening plants as Ford shuts down. Cars are not big business. Ford as a company is worth about $15bn - Google is worth $129bn.

    US car design and production values have also been criticised. For years American cars have been outperformed by their European and Asian competitors. 'Asian and European design used to be considered a joke in the 1980s. Now it is the standard for cars,' said Lord.

    Many of the US cars now on the market copy modest European and Japanese designs and shun the brasher concepts. Ford has brought in two Britons to be in charge of the look of its European and US products. Future cars will also be more fuel-efficient and aware of green issues. That is probably good for the environment, but represents a huge shift in what a car actually means to Americans - and what America means to itself.

    The Hollywood car of choice now is not the 1946 Fat Fender Ford Coupé of John Travolta's 'Greased Lightning' or Jayne Mansfield's Buick Electra. It is the Toyota Prius, an energy-efficient hybrid driven by Cameron Diaz and Leonardo di Caprio. And the king of the recent SUV craze is the far from sexy Hummer, a boxy military-style vehicle, inspired by the 1991 Gulf war, that encloses its owner in a protective shell. A car born of looking for enemies, not rolling down the windows and hitting the road.

    Latham says his students no longer see their cars as an essential expression; their Toyotas and Hondas are just vehicles. They boast of iPods or computer games, not their 'wheels'.

    'They are like walking cyborgs with all these things attached to them. Cars have become functional. They are not statements anymore. Electronics are,' he said.

    Lord agrees: 'Young people do not have that same set of cultural signs. Their cultural landscape is about technology and the internet, not about convertibles and driving across America.'

    The Age of the American car is passing into nostalgia. Latham once studied a slew of road movies from the early 1990s in which old American cars were nostalgically treated. The most famous was Thelma and Louise, in which two put-upon women find freedom in an open-top T-Bird. At the end of the film, the heroines hold hands and drive off the edge of a cliff.

    It is a fitting image for the death of a slice of the American Dream. After decades of the car being so much more than just a mode of transport - of symbolising industry, art, freedom, sex, a triumphant America - it has now become simply a way of getting from A to B.
    Chris
    91' Mustang GT
    512rwhp/468ft-lb

  2. #2
    Okazaki IronEagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    On the dyno
    Posts
    506
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    The US auto industry is in big trouble and it has been coming for a while. Just wait until the Chinese cars start hitting the shores.

  3. #3
    Here and there Hulud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Omnipresent
    Age
    41
    Posts
    29,877
    Rep Power
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronEagle
    The US auto industry is in big trouble and it has been coming for a while. Just wait until the Chinese cars start hitting the shores.
    its because more people can afford the european cars.
    and mor people are gonna buy japanese cars over americans because they are cheaper and easier to maintain
    Val for President


  4. #4
    www.jasontbarker.com speedminded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    22,589
    Rep Power
    53

    Default

    Resale value, period. Then look up the service bulletin and recall notices comparing domestic vs. the comparable foreign vehicle. I feel the design & quality control departments are lacking in nearly every american manufacturer.

  5. #5
    The coolest chick SM The Ren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In Lostsolvtec's bed!
    Age
    41
    Posts
    18,265
    Rep Power
    44

    Default

    ^Most definatly.. I have a 2002 chevrolet tracker with 70K miles.. its worth 3K resale.. and I have a 94 Supra which is worth almost 20 resale..
    Val For President
    R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..


    ASAP N.E. Chapter VP

    No more supra
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    NIKON Squad member| NikonD40

  6. #6
    www.jasontbarker.com speedminded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    22,589
    Rep Power
    53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ren
    ^Most definatly.. I have a 2002 chevrolet tracker with 70K miles.. its worth 3K resale.. and I have a 94 Supra which is worth almost 20 resale..
    Take a fullsize chevy, drive it for a year then trade it in and compare that to a fullsize Toyota pickup, lol.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    A little town called Nunyagoddamnbusiness
    Posts
    3,341
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by speedminded
    Take a fullsize chevy, drive it for a year then trade it in and compare that to a fullsize Toyota pickup, lol.


    There is only a thousand dollar difference in favor of the Toyota.

    1500
    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/che...2/options.html


    Tundra
    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/toy...6/options.html

  8. #8
    ‹^›‹(̣¿ó)›‹^›
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ren
    ^Most definatly.. I have a 2002 chevrolet tracker with 70K miles.. its worth 3K resale.. and I have a 94 Supra which is worth almost 20 resale..
    Thats not totally true, i've got a 97 Mitsubishi Mirage, which is an import, and the bluebook for some ungodly reason is just over 1 GRAND... I sold my ROLLED (as in every panel had a dent in it) 1992 Ex- FHP mustang coupe rolling chassis (as in no engine, no tranny) for a $1000... I have no clue how they come up with these bluebook ratings but I dont put much weight into them, they dont take much into consideration.
    Chris
    91' Mustang GT
    512rwhp/468ft-lb

  9. #9
    www.jasontbarker.com speedminded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    22,589
    Rep Power
    53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HyPer50
    Thats not totally true, i've got a 97 Mitsubishi Mirage, which is an import, and the bluebook for some ungodly reason is just over 1 GRAND... I sold my ROLLED (as in every panel had a dent in it) 1992 Ex- FHP mustang coupe rolling chassis (as in no engine, no tranny) for a $1000... I have no clue how they come up with these bluebook ratings but I dont put much weight into them, they dont take much into consideration.
    same as ren's example what was the base price for the two vehicles you are comparing?

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    A little town called Nunyagoddamnbusiness
    Posts
    3,341
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ren
    ^Most definatly.. I have a 2002 chevrolet tracker with 70K miles.. its worth 3K resale.. and I have a 94 Supra which is worth almost 20 resale..

    You are comparing vehicles from opposite ends of the spectrum an economy SUV vs a higher end car. Also given the demand that still exists for Supras keeps the value high.

    I had a 2000 Mirage and I have a 2001 Ranger. We bought both of them used (Mirage was 8mos old and the Ranger was 10mos old) and paid almost the same amount for both of them(10400 for the mirage and 9600for the Ranger) We had the Mirage for three years before it was totaled. The KBB value of the car was 2000 less than the payoff. I have had my truck 3 and a half years and I have had equity in it for almost 8mos now. I don't think it is as black and white as imports are worth more than domestics. Everyone can point to an example that supports their opinion.

    What hurts the domestic market more than anything is the UAW, GM has to add an additional $1500 on top of the cost to build a car just to pay for pension and health care benefits for its present and retired employees. For Ford its about $1000 per vehicle. Import manufacturers are not unionized and that gives them an edge in the cost to build a car and keeps the MSRP closer to the build cost and slows the drop in its value.

  11. #11
    www.jasontbarker.com speedminded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    22,589
    Rep Power
    53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdavis
    You are comparing vehicles from opposite ends of the spectrum an economy SUV vs a higher end car. Also given the demand that still exists for Supras keeps the value high.

    I had a 2000 Mirage and I have a 2001 Ranger. We bought both of them used (Mirage was 8mos old and the Ranger was 10mos old) and paid almost the same amount for both of them(10400 for the mirage and 9600for the Ranger) We had the Mirage for three years before it was totaled. The KBB value of the car was 2000 less than the payoff. I have had my truck 3 and a half years and I have had equity in it for almost 8mos now. I don't think it is as black and white as imports are worth more than domestics. Everyone can point to an example that supports their opinion.

    What hurts the domestic market more than anything is the UAW, GM has to add an additional $1500 on top of the cost to build a car just to pay for pension and health care benefits for its present and retired employees. For Ford its about $1000 per vehicle. Import manufacturers are not unionized and that gives them an edge in the cost to build a car and keeps the MSRP closer to the build cost and slows the drop in its value.
    lol, ever notice I never once mentioned mitsubishi when i refer to foreign vehicles and resale? Same goes for Kia, Daewoo, Suzuki (cars), etc. Even though Mitsubishi is on the same level as Toyota and Honda and make more parts for other manfacturers than both of them combined i still think, with the exception of the EVO, they are shit. Plus trucks will always have a higher resale than cars, but as i said before...compare that Ranger to a comparable Tacoma or a fullsize chevy to the Tundra and see what you come up with

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    A little town called Nunyagoddamnbusiness
    Posts
    3,341
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by speedminded
    lol, ever notice I never once mentioned mitsubishi when i refer to foreign vehicles and resale? Same goes for Kia, Daewoo, Suzuki (cars), etc. Even though Mitsubishi is on the same level as Toyota and Honda and make more parts for other manfacturers than both of them combined i still think, with the exception of the EVO, they are shit. Plus trucks will always have a higher resale than cars, but as i said before...compare that Ranger to a comparable Tacoma or a fullsize chevy to the Tundra and see what you come up with

    My point was we can all manipulate the info to get the results we want. also see above for your truck comparison


    Edit Ranger vs Tacoma.

    Tacoma only beats the Ranger by about $400

    Ranger
    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/for...8/options.html

    Tacoma
    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/toy...5/options.html
    Last edited by chrisdavis; 02-02-2006 at 09:09 AM.

  13. #13
    www.jasontbarker.com speedminded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    22,589
    Rep Power
    53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdavis
    My point was we can all manipulate the info to get the results we want. also see above for your truck camparison
    ok, got me on that one Now try it again at payoff...say 3, 4, or 5 years. (i would but i can't get on edmunds or kbb.)

  14. #14
    The coolest chick SM The Ren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In Lostsolvtec's bed!
    Age
    41
    Posts
    18,265
    Rep Power
    44

    Default

    It's so damn pathetic..
    Val For President
    R.I.P. Our Dear Leisa..


    ASAP N.E. Chapter VP

    No more supra
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    NIKON Squad member| NikonD40

  15. #15
    Something Else Kevykev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    'Round These Parts
    Age
    43
    Posts
    15,713
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    The Mitsubish Mirage is a perfect example of a great-quality car that has poor resale value solely due to it's lack of sales caused by competitors.

    People will by a civic or sentra before they buy a mirage. Is it caused by poor marketing? maybe so. It's definately not caused by poor quality.

    Leisa and S. 4 Life NM?

  16. #16
    Certified Gearhead
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Valdosta, GA
    Age
    37
    Posts
    866
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    makes me wanna go buy a domestic.

  17. #17
    Okazaki IronEagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    On the dyno
    Posts
    506
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Yeah some domestics have good resale but they are few and far between. Pontiac's Solstice, Mustang. Alot of it has to do with the way US manufacturers were over pricing the MSRPs on the vehicles only to drop the prices with big rebates.

    Ford is moving away from that. The Fusion and Mustang are now priced closer to actual transaction prices with no rebates. That is going to help those cars hold their values pretty well. The Mustang has a three year residual up near 52% IIRC which puts it right up there with RX-8, 350Z, Corvette etc.

  18. #18
    A.K.A Felipe Gomez Negrodamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Daaaaaaknessss
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,073
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    The only reason why Domestic automobiles is still a factor is due to their generally low intrest rates and 1st time buyer programs. Consider the release of the focus 2000, cavaliers and neons. But to be honest their is no such thing as a TRUE import take GM which is like Saab, Vauxhall, Holden and have their hands in such compaines as Isuzu, Daewoo, a lil bit of Subaru and Suzuki. Think about the Talon would you consider that a "true" domestic???? Before you know it their is gonna be 1 car company Microsoft Motors Ltd that will use honda Hybrid motors WATCH!!!!


    BTW the chinese will never ever have a decent car to hit american shores they had that horrible Grand Cherokee Look-A-like that got the worst crash test rating EVER.

  19. #19
    AmbitiousButRubbish EJ25RUN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Daytona Beach
    Age
    38
    Posts
    15,152
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    true.... the chinese cars would hace resale values to make first time buyers cry.

  20. #20
    A.D.I.D.A.S. §treet_§peed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Gainesville
    Age
    38
    Posts
    24,950
    Rep Power
    49

    Default

    imports are usaully more efficient as in gas and maintainces exspences. they can be better on gas milage and go faster than alot of big muscle v8 rides that drink gas like there's now tomorrow.
    You know better; next time will be a ban.

  21. #21
    Okazaki IronEagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    On the dyno
    Posts
    506
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    15 years ago everyone said the Korean's would never have quality cars and look at Hyundai today. They are kicking ass and have Toyota looking over their shoulders. The Chinese have a ton of money to invest and with the partnerships US manufacturers are going into with Chinese companies, they are learning very very fast. They are claming they will bring A4 performance as in a AWD Turbocharged 4 door sedan to the US market by 2009 for around $20k. That will be something to see if they make it happen.

  22. #22
    A.K.A Felipe Gomez Negrodamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Daaaaaaknessss
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,073
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronEagle
    15 years ago everyone said the Korean's would never have quality cars and look at Hyundai today.
    I mean if you copied the Accord line for line you should be sucessful.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Fake Suburban Environment
    Age
    41
    Posts
    4,289
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    this is why I stay german...

    i got a straight six that makes as much power as American V8s...

    it weighs only 3100 pounds... and gets an average of 22 MPG when i am BEATING on it...

  24. #24
    look here, bish Stormhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Age
    38
    Posts
    9,288
    Rep Power
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DinanM3atl
    this is why I stay german...

    i got a straight six that makes as much power as American V8s...

    it weighs only 3100 pounds... and gets an average of 22 MPG when i am BEATING on it...
    '



    and thats why the American Icon is dying folks


    ̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(•̪●)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿

  25. #25
    giggity giggity goo ReCkLe5s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cumming
    Age
    41
    Posts
    363
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    the reason why the american auto market has been declining in the last 10 to 20 years is because of gas prices (i do own a domestic) if you were paying 99cents for a gallon of gas why wouldnt you go for a gas guzzeler v8 mustang.... or a giant suv... americas companies think bigger is better.... but thats not the case when you paying 2.60 for premium.. thats their flaw.. imho



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
ImportAtlanta is a community of gearheads and car enthusiasts. It does not matter what kind of car or bike you drive, IA is an open community for any gearhead. Whether you're looking for advice on a performance build or posting your wheels for sale, you're welcome here!
Announcement
Welcome back to ImportAtlanta. We are currently undergoing many changes, so please report any issues you encounter with the site using the 'Contact Us' button below. Thank you!