What tha fuk is going on?

[Slow Motion]

What is going on with our economy. It seem like every day some major company is filing for bankruptcy or chapter 13. With the decline in consumer spending and the rise in gas prices I no see and understand the ripple affect that is now begining to hit some of the fortune 500 companies. It is amazing how some companies want to make more money but do not pay employess more. In order to have a better economy we as a people have to spend money, but we can't spend money if we don't make enough money. So therefore your business is going to do bad. I can't go buy a new flatscreen or buy upgrades from Greddy(now filing bankruptcy) because of the small loan I have to take out every six months just to buy gas in order to go to work so that I can pay my rent and eat. I see Walmart, Kroger and any other business worth investing in now a days due to the fact you are going to have to purchase things from these stores in order to survive and they might be the only one's to actually make money. What are We going to do. I'm not rich and I certainly don't like the way the economy is going. What do you think is going to happen? If the economy is doing so good why am I broke? Thank you Mr. Commander and Cheif for the great job you have done over the past 8 years.

[MS3ZZ]

get ready for rough ride. It will be awhile before it recovers.

[Slow Motion]

Thats what scares me.

[VIP Style]

and mccain talking about the economy is fundamentally sound, he need to get the fawk on with all that

[Danny]

so was anyone able go in short on bank of america yesterday, and if you did.. how did you know?

[Slow Motion]

Bank of america seem to be buying out quite a few banks. I wonder what they have going.

[Z33_kid]

history repeats its self thats all i have to say...

[Slow Motion]

If thats the case the dollar will be backed by gold again.

[SPOOLIN]

seems like we might as well just suck it up and get used to a recession every 8 years. Jesus christ, whats lame is all these selling frenzies mostly fueled by media coverage over EVERYTHING.

[twinj]

seems like we might as well just suck it up and get used to a recession every 8 years.

Yea I agree.

[Slow Motion]

More like a depression. Banks and financial institutions are going under. What happens to your investment which could be your life savings when they go under.

[blaknoize]

More like a depression. Banks and financial institutions are going under. What happens to your investment which could be your life savings when they go under.

"...the stock market always recovers in the long run..."

[Slow Motion]

"...the stock market always recovers in the long run..."

It may recover in the long run but right now it could be better than it was if it wasn't for the decisions of our politicians.

[blaknoize]

It may recover in the long run but right now it could be better than it was if it wasn't for the decisions of our politicians.

Oh yea, obviously... lol. I was just quoting a book of mine.

[Alan®]

More like a depression. Banks and financial institutions are going under. What happens to your investment which could be your life savings when they go under.

You do realize that our current ecconomic cituation doesn't quite yet even justify calling it a recession. Once it does you do realize it would have to last for nearly a decade to be called a depression.

[MS3ZZ]

You do realize that our current ecconomic cituation doesn't quite yet even justify calling it a recession. Once it does you do realize it would have to last for nearly a decade to be called a depression.

Why? Because there hasnt been red GDP for two consecutive quarter?

[BanginJimmy]

Why? Because there hasnt been red GDP for two consecutive quarter?

umm yea. As bad as some sectors of he economy are doing, some are actually doing alreaught and keeping the GDP in the green.

[blaknoize]

You do realize that our current ecconomic cituation doesn't quite yet even justify calling it a recession. Once it does you do realize it would have to last for nearly a decade to be called a depression.

Its been sagging for 8 years... technically. I mean the 1st 2 years maybe, but its been almost a decade. Why not be proactive instead of reactive. Its as if you guys are blind to the fact that this country is obviously unhealthy.

I mean what, are u just going to WAIT and THEN be like, "oh sh!t!... a lil to late now" and THEN finally get around to finding reasons to why such and such has happened. Thats stupid. We're at an Event Horizon and its us, We The People whom have the responsibility to vote properly and bring who we think will rep USA the best.

[Danny]

Its been sagging for 8 years... technically. I mean the 1st 2 years maybe, but its been almost a decade.

technically speaking, if its been sagging the last 8 years... then what time period was good?

As far as i can tell GDP was above trend, DOW was above trend, CPI was on or below trend during most of these years. Take out 18months in 00-01 and the last 18months and you have a really great economic play ground. Have we had a perfect 8 years, nahh.. But im not sure i would call it "sagging". I would call the last 18months "sagging" that is for sure.

general statement: I don't understand why people are screaming end of the world, and "thanks bush". Oil is BACK on trend and housing/fins are coming back down to below trend before they can get back on track. I am not sure what the big surprise is? It couldn't have last forever, it never does.

[MS3ZZ]

very interesting comment from one of the member of marketwatch.com

This is regarding deflationary depression that might be heading toward us.

by hookupjjj
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...2B%7D#comments

Our money is entirely create from debt. If ALL debt was retired in our country, there would be NO money. Deflation is defined as a reduction in the credit/money supply. Everytime a loan is created it increases the money supply. Once that loan is retired, the money that was created is also retired.

This would all be different if the money was actually printed. But only a very small fraction of money created is actually ever printed. Only the money needed to carry our day to day transactions is printed. Near ALL of our money is nothing more than book entries, or today, a computer entry.

Our fiat debt based money system REQUIRES inflation. If you go and buy a house on debt, at first you may have a hard time affording it. But due to inflation your wages increase and after a few years your mortgage payment becomes less and less of a percentage of your income. Same with the government. They borrow, get in over our heads, but they know that due to inflation their revenues will increase. So this HUGE debt, in theory, becomes less and less percentage of revenue.

Currently the subprime markets are seeing increasing defaults. Remember, when a debt is retired, it decreases the money supply. That computer entry that created the money is now zero. That money is gone. Into thin air, from which it came. Debt can also be retired by default or a debt being forgiven. So massive defaults are deflationary, they take money out of the system.

Lately the FED has lost its control, and Greenspan has openly talked about this in an interview a couple months ago. When he dropped rates to near zero, mortgage rates followed. But recently as rates have been increased, mortgages did not follow. Mortgage rates did increase but not proportionately to the previous decrease.

For those who remember, in 2002 Greenspan was talking a lot about "the risk of deflation" to our economy. This was the purpose of cutting rates to near zero. This was to encourage borrowing. Borrowing increases the money supply. At the same time, for those who remember, Bush issued tax rebates. Another increase in the money supply. Both are only temporary bandaids, and result in a larger problem later on (which is nearing).

So inflation is kept going to avoid deflation. Inflation is a increase in the credit supply, increasing debt. To increase debt REQUIRES 2 things. A WILLING BORROWER and a WILLING LENDER. When the banks lose confidence, they stop lending. When borrowers lose confidence, they stop borrowing. This is what controls the FEDS effectiveness. The FED lowers and raises rates to encourage/discourage lending. But this is their only control, they can't fully control the emotional side, the confidence equation.

In 2001 as the recession set in, the borrower lost confidence in borrowing, as is normal in a recession. Lower rates persuaded borrowers to borrow. Borrowers are not as smart as lenders, and more easy to persuade into borrowing. With lower rates borrowers were persuaded to buy new, bigger houses. They cashed out equity in their homes for consumption. And the money supply inflated, the desired goal.

This time around, as the subprime markets crumble, the Lenders have lost confidence. The FED has been injecting 100's of billions into the credit markets. But the credit markets have still stopped a large portion of lending. They are holding onto the cash as they fear that as this unwinds they may need it to cover their ASSetts. This failure to persuade Lenders to lend, combined with increasing defaults, is resulting in a failure to inflate and leading to deflation.

Bushes Tax Rebates. Bush is borrowing for us, increasing the money supply, to avoid deflation. He is borrowing for us because, well because he can, and we can't. When I say we can't I'm referring to the banks loss of confidence, they have cut back significantly on lending. When deflation rears its head, SOMEONE has to borrow, increase the money/credit supply, to inflate.

Fiat debt based money systems are ALL ABOUT ever increasing debt. Without it, they collapse into deflation through defaults. Deflation results in falling prices, wages included. As prices fall, there are less profits for corporations and corp. debt defaults increase causing further deflation. Wages drop resulting in large defaults in consumer debt further increasing deflation. At this point BOTH borrowers and lenders have lost confidence. Deflation continues to spiral downward until most debt has been cleansed from the system, and someone starts borrowing again. This someone is usually the government and usually to finance a war. The USA has gone though 4 depressions since its inception. Near the bottom of all these depressions you find a war followed by economic recovery. The larger the depression has been, the larger the wars have been.

Note: If the FED starts actually printing all the money, then we're in for hyperinflation, as once the money physically exist, it does not dissappear when a default occurs as it does currently. Germany, before they totally collapsed, was printing physical moeny so fast the they started printing on only one side of the bill, to speed up the printing. The back side of their bill was blank

[BanginJimmy]

technically speaking, if its been sagging the last 8 years... then what time period was good?

As far as i can tell GDP was above trend, DOW was above trend, CPI was on or below trend during most of these years. Take out 18months in 00-01 and the last 18months and you have a really great economic play ground. Have we had a perfect 8 years, nahh.. But im not sure i would call it "sagging". I would call the last 18months "sagging" that is for sure.

general statement: I don't understand why people are screaming end of the world, and "thanks bush". Oil is BACK on trend and housing/fins are coming back down to below trend before they can get back on track. I am not sure what the big surprise is? It couldn't have last forever, it never does.

No one understood just how far reaching the housing market was. As soon as that crashed, everything else started falling like dominos. From what I have seen though, housing prices are starting to level and inventory is starting to shrink for the first time in over a year. This tells me that we are through the worst of that crisis and its only a matter of time before the other markets also regain the ground they have lost.

[aguynamedpat]

Its bad, thats for sure. But after reading, some of the workers at AIG were saying this isnt nearly as bad as the "Black Monday" in October of 1987 (last time stock market almost crashed).

Some other articles were saying how journalists will be journalists, media will be media. They always report on the ONE plane that crashed, not the thousands that land safely. Follow me here? It COULD get worse, but it COULD get better. Its the future that will tell, so lets just hope that it takes option 2 in the previous sentence.

Here is a good article from Yahoo! Finance:

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...rom-the-Crisis

[MS3ZZ]

What is more scary is that nobody knows exactly what's going to happen. They have prediction and analysis but that's about it. Nothing guarantees anything. Nobody expected this to happen to lehman and merrill, they were according to "media" and other sources were doing fine.

AIG and Wamu might go down. Nobody knows.
Hey, one thing i know for sure though. There is job cuts all over the US and every industry. HP will cut jobs, BOA will cut jobs, and automaker are cutting jobs.. this is getting depressing to look at every morning.

Best luck to all of us, i feel that big storm is coming and i dont know what kind of preparation will save us.

[C-loS109]

What is more scary is that nobody knows exactly what's going to happen. They have prediction and analysis but that's about it. Nothing guarantees anything. Nobody expected this to happen to lehman and merrill, they were according to "media" and other sources were doing fine.

AIG and Wamu might go down. Nobody knows.
Hey, one thing i know for sure though. There is job cuts all over the US and every industry. HP will cut jobs, BOA will cut jobs, and automaker are cutting jobs.. this is getting depressing to look at every morning.

Best luck to all of us, i feel that big storm is coming and i dont know what kind of preparation will save us.

i order for the economy to equalize they unemployment rate must go up. its just something that happens, and at the end it will help. yeah it sucks for the people that get laid off.

for the people that say we are in a "recession" its not really one, yet. we have to be in red GDP for 3 consecutive quarters. right now its at a 3.93% which is exactly what we want but it being at 3.93 only menas the economy is still growing.

and for those that dont know the housing market failed because of greed. thinking about immediate wealth then long term consequences.

[aguynamedpat]

Actually, its been known for a while that Merrill and Lehman were doing poorly, but everyone expected the government to jump in and save them from this. When the government didnt jump in and save them, it put everyone in a panic.

BOA just bought Merrill, why would they go cutting jobs?

Everyone, we are Officially Fu.Cked

Visit this thread, there is alot of very good information, and lots of very educated opinions on this.

[YoTa_BoX]

this is just poor judgment on those big firms. They got into this frenzy of giving away loans knowing fairly well that the ppl could not pay them back. Big businesses can go down just like small ones can..this is nothing huge. People get to damn cocky these days. I mean they think they can just have the gov bail their asses out right at the last min...but that didn't happen. I think this country needs a good kick in the teeth about spending money and using it wisely. just my

[BanginJimmy]

There are MANY factors going on all at once.
1. Credit crisis, no one wants to lend because no one knows what is going on with the economy

2. Oil prices, more money is spent on energy than ever, this means less money to spend on other things.

3. Election year, economy always slows and the dollar always take a bit of a hit in the last couple months before an election. This is fueled mainly by overseas investors that dont fully understand the exchange of office.

4. Media, people are scared about their job and about investing, so they are sitting on their money and not spending or investing.


I am sure there are a thousand other factors that are over my head. One thing I have leared is that no one knows exactly what is wrong, outside of the housing market. Some sectors are taking hits for no aparant reason.

Backnoize said it and I agree. It will recover with a regained purpose, just like it did in 87. People with the money and time to let it sit are going to make ALOT of money in 3-5 years if they make a couple of sound investments now. There are quite a few sound corporations that will ride this out and come out MUCH stronger because of their investments.

[aguynamedpat]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/aig

Holy sh!t (not sure if thats been posted yet). Gov't announces $85 billion dollar loan deal to save AIG.

And...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/lehman_barclays_deal

Lehman Bro's sold to Barclays for $250 million in cash.

[Danny]

Treasury is auctioning off 35 day bills today, 40 billion worth.

[tony]

Treasury is auctioning off 35 day bills today, 40 billion worth.

I've been anxiously waiting to hear your opinion on all of this.

[Danny]

I've been anxiously waiting to hear your opinion on all of this.

Its a cycle. Not the end of the world. All insanely bullish markets are followed by insanely bearish markets (especially when viewed in relation to each other). Unfortunately the post 00-01 bear market was followed by a great bull market that was built on a weak backbone (crappy lending). All these companies getting shot to hell is a must for us to return to equilibrium. I just hope the next bull is built on a solid foundation, not a a foundation of poor ethics and greed.

[Slow Motion]

The way these old people in office has been running thing needs to stop. Their senile a$$ needs to be kick out of office cause they are to old to make rational decisions for the world of today. They think that same bullchit is going to ride out now.

[Danny]

hmm and we were off to such a good start this morning. Well at least today was a global bad news instead of just US bad news. That is some twisted type of optimism, is it not?

[Danny]

oh ill bring good news, im sick of bad news. Those of you in silver your making money today!
last change chg% high low time
Silver (Spot) 12.35 0.40 3.24 13.99 10.26 11:28

and to think you could have bought it 2 days ago at 10.50. No need to worry kids, still PLENTY of money to be made.

[cactusEG]

lots of companys are laying ppl off bad...