Question for liberals...

[Danny]

I absolutely do not think Democrats want smaller government, I argue hard with my friends that are democrats about the windfall profit tax on oil companies.. my #1 question is what is it about taxation that will make a corporation want to LOWER prices? Its like they want to use taxation as a punishment and that is not why we have the tax system we do.

I will admit I support Barack but when he starts talking about all these government programs I'm thinking.. okay c'mon now lets not go overboard. The kind of government spending I agree with says that oil companies buying up corn futures or the companies that are colluding are the same ones producing Ethanol is a conflict of interest.

The way the oil industry is set up HAS to be a violation of Antitrust laws here in America. I do not think the oil companies need to be punished directly but I do think the government needs to take a look at how everything is structured. Section 1 of the Sherman Act states:

"Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal. Every person who shall make any contract or engage in any combination or conspiracy hereby declared to be illegal shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine...."

OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) is a group of 12 countries who controls 35% of the worlds oil and those countries come together.. agree on a set amount of production therefor fixing gas prices, a complete violation.

I am for a government that steps in and says speculation on the price of oil is not in the best interest of the people and has become out of control. The government is there to step in to an unfair market and set things straight without too much of a strong arm. The government could not put a cap on gas prices, that would be disastrous but putting forth the infrastructure for Biodiesel (40mpg and produced from waste) Cellulosic Ethanol (does not use corn) Hydrogen.. whatever, viable competition can be made.

Thats how the market works, it sucks for us somtimes, but thats just how the game is played. So you want to socialize the oil/energy market to get rid of what you call "speculation". Why not just socialize every market, because I hate to break it to you speculation is NOT a fraction of the price of any given commodity, it is 100% of the price. Futures are traded (and every other single market on the planet) on speculation. Your life and capital runs on speculation. So yea, there are lots of people that buy into the "there is a 50% speculation surcharge on oil right now" garbage spilling out of some politicians /news channels mouths; but that does not make it the least bit true. The next time you talk to a futures/stock/ any type of finical person that is worth a cent will tell you that speculation is 100% of the market price.

But this doesnt change the fact that Obama wants the government to effect life on a daily basis more than Mccain does, and this is a common interest with thier associated parties.

There are a few key things about the Dems/ Obama that are enough to vote for McCain as the 'lesser evil' option. I should also mention that this doesnt neccesarily mean McCain is complete oppisite on every single one of the issues, but he is the better choice.


-2nd Amendment, Obama is ready to erase this as if its not even written in our constitution. Legislating from the bench like this is enough to make my blood boil. This alone looses my vote and is an example of big govt.

-Taxation as punishment, be it large corps or successful people, dems use it as a form of economic equality

-Pulling troops out of Iraq, hell the troops dont even want this.. why would I?
::edit- rephrase to: the troops dont want to QUIT::

-Socialized Med - the current govt took how many days to get water to NO? how long is it going to take to get treatment for cancer? What a joke.

- Socialized retirement - dems are against privatization of SS, its a great feeling know Obama is gonna keep that chunk of cash from my paycheck every week, knowing I will never see it again.

-Sure i could come up with some more, but these are the biggest and most important to me off the top of my head.




Just these couple basic issues are enough for him to loose my vote, and every last one of them SCREAM bigger govt especially when compare to the republican view.

[Spektrewing386]

-Pulling troops out of Iraq, hell the troops dont even want this.. why would I?

what are your sources for saying that troops in iraq want to stay in iraq?
most of them are tired of their year+ tours of duty and most have a hard time finding a reason to be there.

[Danny]

what are your sources for saying that troops in iraq want to stay in iraq?
most of them are tired of their year+ tours of duty and most have a hard time finding a reason to be there.

Good point, I thought about this after I posted it but didnt have time to edit.

i should say they dont want to quit, like the dems want to do. Of course they all want to come home, but they dont want to quit.

[tony]

Thats how the market works, it sucks for us somtimes, but thats just how the game is played. So you want to socialize the oil/energy market to get rid of what you call "speculation". Why not just socialize every market, because I hate to break it to you speculation is NOT a fraction of the price of any given commodity, it is 100% of the price. Futures are traded (and every other single market on the planet) on speculation. Your life and capital runs on speculation. So yea, there are lots of people that buy into the "there is a 50% speculation surcharge on oil right now" garbage spilling out of some politicians /news channels mouths; but that does not make it the least bit true. The next time you talk to a futures/stock/ any type of finical person that is worth a cent will tell you that speculation is 100% of the market price.

But this doesnt change the fact that Obama wants the government to effect life on a daily basis more than Mccain does, and this is a common interest with thier associated parties.

There are a few key things about the Dems/ Obama that are enough to vote for McCain as the 'lesser evil' option. I should also mention that this doesnt neccesarily mean McCain is complete oppisite on every single one of the issues, but he is the better choice.


-2nd Amendment, Obama is ready to erase this as if its not even written in our constitution. Legislating from the bench like this is enough to make my blood boil. This alone looses my vote and is an example of big govt.

-Taxation as punishment, be it large corps or successful people, dems use it as a form of economic equality

-Pulling troops out of Iraq, hell the troops dont even want this.. why would I?

-Socialized Med - the current govt took how many days to get water to NO? how long is it going to take to get treatment for cancer? What a joke.

- Socialized retirement - dems are against privatization of SS, its a great feeling know Obama is gonna keep that chunk of cash from my paycheck every week, knowing I will never see it again.

-Sure i could come up with some more, but these are the biggest and most important to me off the top of my head.




Just these couple basic issues are enough for him to loose my vote, and every last one of them SCREAM bigger govt especially when compare to the republican view.

I don't think the immediate response should be "Thats how the game is played," that is called acquiescence and completely unacceptable.

Speculation in the energy sector is much different than say.. the soda industry or computer sales.. this effects the every day decisions that the average person makes so yes I do think the government needs to do what is in the best interest of the people or this economy will continue to crumble. People can function every day without Soda but right now gas is a necessity, therefor it requires a different approach.

Nobody gets it absolutely perfect in politics, otherwise there would not be a need for separate parties. I'll give a little on Gun laws if a woman retains the right to choose an abortion or not.. a couple more government programs are fine with me as long as someone in office is willing to sit down and talk things out rather than continue a war with no objective in the middle east. It's all about what is most important to each and every individual then holding those elected officials accountable.

And for those who think Barack will do everything for blacks.. the social security system as it is now that he supports (I don't) is completely biased against blacks in policy since the life expectancy of a black male is lower than the minimum age to receive social security benefits.

[Danny]

I don't think the immediate response should be "Thats how the game is played," that is called acquiescence and completely unacceptable.

Speculation in the energy sector is much different than say.. the soda industry or computer sales.. this effects the every day decisions that the average person makes so yes I do think the government needs to do what is in the best interest of the people or this economy will continue to crumble. People can function every day without Soda but right now gas is a necessity, therefor it requires a different approach.

Nobody gets it absolutely perfect in politics, otherwise there would not be a need for separate parties. I'll give a little on Gun laws if a woman retains the right to choose an abortion or not.. a couple more government programs are fine with me as long as someone in office is willing to sit down and talk things out rather than continue a war with no objective in the middle east. It's all about what is most important to each and every individual then holding those elected officials accountable.

And for those who think Barack will do everything for blacks.. the social security system as it is now that he supports (I don't) is completely biased against blacks in policy since the life expectancy of a black male is lower than the minimum age to receive social security benefits.

I see your points and personally cant decide what I would like to see. It all sounds good on paper but in reality once you let the govt social one market, it gives them a door in to socialize another. What i wouldnt mind seeing is our govt grow some balls and get in there and start pump some of the trillions of barrels of reserve. Why not let the govt become competition for American oil companys, maybe giving them some incentive to produce on land already permitted to pump oil. Just a thought, but I wonder if that would work and we could stay away from the govt regulating the market.

And the economy is stubliing on more than just oil prices: over spending, fubared taxing, and speculation all play a huge part. Both parties can be held accountable in this case.

And about the gun laws, you really believe in the BS the dems pump out about the 2nd amendment?

Abortion, thats personal and many things effect that. My personal views and view that govt should stay the heck out of my personal life contradict on these subject. Thus I try not to broadcast my opinion on this.

ps. sorry for slaughtering the English language in this post, my brain is spent.