WTF is Hillary thinking???

[ash7]

FDR also developed programs that would have extended the depression had the war not come along. His New Deal Program was simply taking wealth from those that were smart and re-distributed it to those that were not.

Also FDR ignored most of his staff from the war dept when they warned that japan was going to attack the US and did not put US land forces on alert, Naval forces at sea were alerted to the chance of attack from Jap subs.

More greatness from FDR was the "relocation camps" he approved that were nothing more than concentration camps. No, people werent killed by the thousands there, but people of japanese decent were forcefully taken from
their homes and moved there and their property and posessions were taken away. Some of them even had their property sold off.


Experience in the federal govt is extremely important for an incoming president, but just because someone doesnt have experience doesnt mean they are going to flop either.

Eisenhower didnt have to deal with any major issues during his presidency.

Truman was the most experienced as he served as a wartime VP for over 4 years while FDR was alive.

took the words right out of my mouth

FDR was a SOCIALIST with socialist policies - no wonder he got along so well with Joseph Stalin during the war. While I agree that "experience" in government doesn't necessarily lead to a powerful leader... experience in being one does. Obama has no such experience... at all. His voting record in illinois proves that fact as he voted "not present" more often than not.

-jonathan

[tony]

took the words right out of my mouth

FDR was a SOCIALIST with socialist policies - no wonder he got along so well with Joseph Stalin during the war. While I agree that "experience" in government doesn't necessarily lead to a powerful leader... experience in being one does. Obama has no such experience... at all. His voting record in illinois proves that fact as he voted "not present" more often than not.

-jonathan

I'm just curious Jonathan, whats his voting record since you know it so well? And how long has Obama been in a political position? Because its longer than just a first term senator.. and longer than Hillary as well.

See, this is why I turned away from conservative views. A lot of people with those beliefs argue with flawed logic and misleading statements rather than facts, I'm giving you FACTS here.

These "Socialist" programs you speak of in theory was not the answer to the Depression and I'll agree that had it not been for the war it probably would have made things work. But in the grand scheme of things the programs were much needed back then but a bit outdated today and need reform.

Nobody is perfect and even the greatest of presidents have made mistakes but again, their legacy is not defined by how they presided but how they responded in the time of crisis. I think FDR did pretty well considering he didn't have a laundry list of experience.

[ash7]

I'm just curious Jonathan, whats his voting record since you know it so well? And how long has Obama been in a political position? Because its longer than just a first term senator.. and longer than Hillary as well.

See, this is why I turned away from conservative views. A lot of people with those beliefs argue with flawed logic and misleading statements rather than facts, I'm giving you FACTS here.

These "Socialist" programs you speak of in theory was not the answer to the Depression and I'll agree that had it not been for the war it probably would have made things work. But in the grand scheme of things the programs were much needed back then but a bit outdated today and need reform.

Nobody is perfect and even the greatest of presidents have made mistakes but again, their legacy is not defined by how they presided but how they responded in the time of crisis. I think FDR did pretty well considering he didn't have a laundry list of experience.

Tony, you seem to believe that Obama is a prime candidate; a sort of "diamond in the rough..." Well, to state the FACTS (as you like to quote I see) here is another one:

In 1999, Barack Obama was faced with a difficult vote in the Illinois legislature — to support a bill that would let some juveniles be tried as adults, a position that risked drawing fire from African-Americans, or to oppose it, possibly undermining his image as a tough-on-crime moderate.

In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted “present,” effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator.

Sometimes the “present" votes were in line with instructions from Democratic leaders or because he objected to provisions in bills that he might otherwise support. At other times, Mr. Obama voted present on questions that had overwhelming bipartisan support.

Although a present vote is not unusual in Illinois from what I have been able to research, Obama’s use of it can be raised as he tries to distinguish himself as a leader who will take on the tough issues, even if it means telling people the “hard truths” they do not want to hear; which is highly questionable at this point.

Obama’s aides and some allies dispute the characterization that a present vote is tantamount to ducking an issue. They said Mr. Obama cast 4,000 votes in the Illinois Senate and used the present vote to protest bills that he believed had been drafted unconstitutionally or as part of a broader legislative strategy. An examination of Illinois records shows at least 36 times when Mr. Obama was either the only state senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way. In more than 50 votes, he seemed to be acting in concert with other Democrats as part of a strategy.

In my opinion, a "present" vote gives one political cover, especially if they are concerned about an upcoming election. (which he clearly was) In effect, it allows the candidate to take a stand on either side of the isle of a certain issue depending on the national opinion at the time. a true leader takes a stand on his convictions regardless of what the polls say.

All of the current candidates have issues with this - and none are true leaders. Let's please not get into a laundry list of legislation that "my guy or your guy" passed or proposed. If anything, McCain would have the longest list of "positive" bills as he has been in congress longer than the other two candidates combined.

-jonathan

[tony]

Tony, you seem to believe that Obama is a prime candidate; a sort of "diamond in the rough..." Well, to state the FACTS (as you like to quote I see) here is another one:

In 1999, Barack Obama was faced with a difficult vote in the Illinois legislature — to support a bill that would let some juveniles be tried as adults, a position that risked drawing fire from African-Americans, or to oppose it, possibly undermining his image as a tough-on-crime moderate.

In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted “present,” effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator.

Sometimes the “present" votes were in line with instructions from Democratic leaders or because he objected to provisions in bills that he might otherwise support. At other times, Mr. Obama voted present on questions that had overwhelming bipartisan support.

Although a present vote is not unusual in Illinois from what I have been able to research, Obama’s use of it can be raised as he tries to distinguish himself as a leader who will take on the tough issues, even if it means telling people the “hard truths” they do not want to hear; which is highly questionable at this point.

Obama’s aides and some allies dispute the characterization that a present vote is tantamount to ducking an issue. They said Mr. Obama cast 4,000 votes in the Illinois Senate and used the present vote to protest bills that he believed had been drafted unconstitutionally or as part of a broader legislative strategy. An examination of Illinois records shows at least 36 times when Mr. Obama was either the only state senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way. In more than 50 votes, he seemed to be acting in concert with other Democrats as part of a strategy.

In my opinion, a "present" vote gives one political cover, especially if they are concerned about an upcoming election. (which he clearly was) In effect, it allows the candidate to take a stand on either side of the isle of a certain issue depending on the national opinion at the time. a true leader takes a stand on his convictions regardless of what the polls say.

All of the current candidates have issues with this - and none are true leaders. Let's please not get into a laundry list of legislation that "my guy or your guy" passed or proposed. If anything, McCain would have the longest list of "positive" bills as he has been in congress longer than the other two candidates combined.

-jonathan

Is it sidestepping or compromise? Obama has said that voting Present was neither supporting or opposing a bill but rather saying "Lets work on this, there are a few things in the Bill I do not like but that is not to say I will not support it, it just needs to be revised." I'll take that leadership any day over simplying veto'n a bill because you don't like it.

Look, we can go down the list of all the issues everyone has with Obama but its funny, half this stuff McSame isn't held to the same standard. How about his voting record? Bills he's proposed... I shoot down anything you guys put up and it doesnt get acknowledged that maybe you were wrong, you'd rather just move on to another manufactured issue.

And McCain actively seeked Hagee's endorsement so that makes him just as liable.

[ash7]

Is it sidestepping or compromise? Obama has said that voting Present was neither supporting or opposing a bill but rather saying "Lets work on this, there are a few things in the Bill I do not like but that is not to say I will not support it, it just needs to be revised." I'll take that leadership any day over simplying veto'n a bill because you don't like it.

Look, we can go down the list of all the issues everyone has with Obama but its funny, half this stuff McSame isn't held to the same standard. How about his voting record? Bills he's proposed... I shoot down anything you guys put up and it doesnt get acknowledged that maybe you were wrong, you'd rather just move on to another manufactured issue.

And McCain actively seeked Hagee's endorsement so that makes him just as liable.

I'm glad you're confident in your opinions - but you're "shooting down" what "us guys" put up with your opinion rather than facts. These "manufactured issues" you speak of are brought out into the mainstream by the same media that supports Obama - so how are they "fake" and "manufactured?"

Please point out the post where I said McCain was a viable candidate for me... I don't support him either. Hagee endorsed McCain and he accepted it at first - then Hagee fired off something at the hip and it was shot down instantly by the McCain campaign. You comparing that to Obama's minister is not even close.

-jonathan