Fair Tax debate ONLY

[guinness]

i have been preaching fairtax since i first heard about it from boortz and then actually took the time to read about it and the book boortz put out.i totally agree that everyone needs to write and continue to write their congress,state rep.,and everyone else that they can who is i n a position to put this more into the light than it is right now.this idea and bill is perfect and exact for everyone.who wouldn't rather pay and extra 1% on purchased goods and in return know that every hour you put in at work and all the work you do,you are getting paid in full for it?this bill will also do away with the irs as well.granted,those people will be out of work,but think how many other jobs would be available to them and the rest of the us if several more companies moved some if not all their operations over here.our economy and everyone in america would see a great surge in improvemnet.inflation drops,unemployment drops,exports would increase,long-term jobs would be more readily available,and so on.everyone,get out and on the move to make this bill a must and nessecity for america.we have needed a change for sometime that will and would cause a ripple of change and effect,and this bill will certainly do that for us and america as a whole.

[BanginJimmy]

I dont know why, but ALOT of people seem to think that they arent already taxed the 23%.

Right now a business pays sales taxes, payroll taxes, corporate taxes and many more. All of these taxes are then added into the price you pay for the goods you buy from them. Has anyone else noticed that whenever corporate taxes go up, so do the prices of their products?

So that car that was 30k to start with will go up to ~33k, but you WONT have income taxes taken out of your check prior to paying the payment. That means that your 1k per week before taxes and now ~700 per week, is abck up to 1k per week. That will EASILY cover the cost of the car.

[carbon_crash]

people that are against fair tax must like illegal immagrants not paying taxes and collecting on food stamps and Medicade

[David88vert]

people that are against fair tax must like illegal immagrants not paying taxes and collecting on food stamps and Medicade

Only the ones working for straight cash are not paying taxes, and a lot of legal non-immigrants do that as well. Fair Tax is welfare for the masses by the introduction of the prebate. That is wealth distribution, and is a cornerstone of socialism, not capitalism.
Unless you reduce or eliminate food stamps and Medicade, you are not changing anything with a new way to collect the taxes. Even Boortz admits that.

Now, here is a novel thought. If new items are taxed,and used items are not, do you think that people will look for used items more? Of course they will as they would be much cheaper. People will also look to barter more. Look at other societies, their economic growth is no even close to the US. It stagnates business as people tend to look for the non-taxed deals instad of running to Wal-Mart and picking up new goods. Pricing is driven by supply and demand, not taxes.

[BanginJimmy]

Boortz and Linder didnt design the fair tax they are simply the supporters of it that have a national voice.

From Boortz's book: the fairtax was designed by a Houston businessman that was pissed about business decisions made based on tax considerations more than profit considerations. He started fairtax.org(not the name at the time) and after a few million in donations was made he asked several major universities for their proposals. After they had their proposals economists went over the proposals and with the aid of focus groups and polls worked out the basics of the fair tax.

Thats not a quote of the book as that was about a page and a worth, but its basicly how it happened.

[BanginJimmy]

18B is nothing. Trillions of dollars are leaving this country every year by corporations being based out of an office in the Bahamas instead of NYC or Atlanta. The Illegals spend for more than 18B now that is not being taxed while they send that money south. Why not get what we can out of them while they are here?

Companies are about profits, but they also base their decisions on the tax liabilities they will incur. A business that needs say 8 more people to run most efficiently. They have a budget of 110k per year for new employees. Pay for those positions in $6.00/hr and ends up being $240 a week. $240 a week is 12,480 . Everything works out great. 8 employees will cost just under 100k for the year. But wait that 6$/hr employee ends up costing the business owner 6.90/hr to cover payroll taxes. That comes out to 14352 a year. Well I guess we will have to do with only 7 more employees now because we are over budget.

[jwrape]

Good Documentary on the IRS and income Tax made by film producer Arron Russo
http://<a href="http://video.google....3867390173</a>

[BITCHING]

am a single perant of two making 10.00 hour at work and sense everything going overseas am not getting my hours am getting 32 hours a week now . it has its pros and cons on the fair taxes act but i like my taxes at the frist of the year its like a saving for me.and am a male if i did not have my kids i would be paying chid suport for them .at 150 a week plus ins. that would leave me with nuthing aweek but at least wen i was going thur everthing to get the kids i was working 7 days aweek then and i was making more a hour then companys has sense cut jobs so i had to take a lower paying job in the plant. but now i had to move back in with perants to help me with kids and have loss my house and car had to buy a cheaper car from what the wife did not take but sense she toke her stuff i was building back up till latly.i need my hole pay cheack but i like my taxes at the frist of the year it my let me get on my feet again wen i do get the taxes but thay dont last long to go out and buy alot of stuff taxes my last me a mouth sense am going to need anuthere car .and help out with bills and help perants if t was not for perants i would not have anything on the streets sense all the plants are going overseas. and bush is not going to ament that he f-up the country by opening up the free trade letting them ship any amount of cheap s#it over to this country

[Jaimecbr900]

am a single perant of two making 10.00 hour at work and sense everything going overseas am not getting my hours am getting 32 hours a week now . it has its pros and cons on the fair taxes act but i like my taxes at the frist of the year its like a saving for me.and am a male if i did not have my kids i would be paying chid suport for them .at 150 a week plus ins. that would leave me with nuthing aweek but at least wen i was going thur everthing to get the kids i was working 7 days aweek then and i was making more a hour then companys has sense cut jobs so i had to take a lower paying job in the plant. but now i had to move back in with perants to help me with kids and have loss my house and car had to buy a cheaper car from what the wife did not take but sense she toke her stuff i was building back up till latly.i need my hole pay cheack but i like my taxes at the frist of the year it my let me get on my feet again wen i do get the taxes but thay dont last long to go out and buy alot of stuff taxes my last me a mouth sense am going to need anuthere car .and help out with bills and help perants if t was not for perants i would not have anything on the streets sense all the plants are going overseas. and bush is not going to ament that he f-up the country by opening up the free trade letting them ship any amount of cheap s#it over to this country

I'm hoping this is not real, because if it is it is the worst display of grammar, spelling, and direction that I have ever witnessed in my life.

If you are serious, you need to realize 3 things:

1. The money you get "back" every year is money YOU ALREADY paid. So it's not "free" money or some kind of rebate. It is money you OVERPAID in the first place. So, would you rather take home your WHOLE $400/wk check or take home $300 every week only to get back $1000 once a year in your tax return? Take the calculator out and add that up.

2. The Fair Tax would BRING IN MORE companies to the U.S. because they would have a Tax INCENTIVE to be here, rather than an additiona COST like they do now. The reason for outsourcing IS additional costs, which include TAXES. Those companies WANT to be here, but the enormous TAX burden and additional costs are keeping them from doing that. It's simple math. If it costs you $100 to do something here and it costs you $50 just across the border, then where do you think these companies are going to move their operations? It's not rocket science. So the solution is not whining about it and buying into false propaganda in the media and putting the blame where it really lies. The solution is to dangle a carrot for those companies to come here. The Fair Tax would be a HUGE carrot.

3. If your tax refund only lasts you a month, why would you want that over getting your WHOLE check year round? You'd rather have a little money once or a little money every week?

[AirMax95]

I applaud everyone who posted accurate information in this thread. Now, I have a clearer understanding of the Fair Tax proposal.

With that said, I honestly feel that it would put more people in check at the end of the day with thier finances.

[tony]

I will say it pisses me off that Jim Martin makes the Fair Tax out to be nothing more than a 23% sales tax, John Lewis is doing the same thing. Very misleading, the Fair Tax will forever struggle because it requires more than stupidity to understand it.

[AirMax95]

I will say it pisses me off that Jim Martin makes the Fair Tax out to be nothing more than a 23% sales tax, John Lewis is doing the same thing. Very misleading, the Fair Tax will forever struggle because it requires more than stupidity to understand it.

I agree! I'm glad I did my homework on the topic to understand the local candidates views. The ads are VERY misleading if you don't research and figure out what each message is telling you.

"Saxby wants to tax exerything you buy @ 23%. Is that what you want?"

I will say that the campaign people are sly cats, lol.

[Jaimecbr900]

I will say it pisses me off that Jim Martin makes the Fair Tax out to be nothing more than a 23% sales tax, John Lewis is doing the same thing. Very misleading, the Fair Tax will forever struggle because it requires more than stupidity to understand it.

The system won't let me, but I'd give you all my rep points if it would.....

You my boy, blue!!!!!

This is the only reason the Fair Tax has not gone as far as it could....the biased and misleading media. The majority of people that take the time to weed thru the BS and find out what it's really about and how it works......convert. That says a lot.

[BITCHING]

its real spelling is not my strong point

[Vteckidd]

Again ive said this 1000 times, FORBES did a survey of 100 Japanese CEOs.

They were asked if we went to the FAIR TAX would they do business in the usa.

20% said they would move SOME of their operation here

80% said they would move their ENTIRE Operation here

[BITCHING]

without taxes at the frist of the year i wont never have 4g in my pocket

[Vteckidd]

without taxes at the frist of the year i wont never have 4g in my pocket

its simple math.

Instead of getting that big sum back at the end of the year, you get it back EVERY PAYCHECK just in smaller amounts,.

you just need to learn how to save and budget

[Jaimecbr900]

without taxes at the frist of the year i wont never have 4g in my pocket

I'm going to use you as a whipping post for a sec here.

I told you to take out your calculator, because your math is not adding up.

If you make $10/hr, then there should be no way for you to get back $4k/yr unless some numbers are missing somewhere. That's the first thing.

Second, even if your numbers are right, wouldn't you be ABLE (everything else held equal) to keep far MORE than $4k if you GOT 100% of what you EARNED every single week? If not, why not?

Finally, if you put $100/wk MORE in your pocket, how are you not going to have $4k at the end of any given year? Furthermore, why would you want a single payment that NETS LESS over a steady and perpetual payment that NETS you MORE?

[JennB]

If you make $10/hr, then there should be no way for you to get back $4k/yr unless some numbers are missing somewhere. That's the first thing.

I'm guessing some serious help from Earned Income Credit here.

It's a losing battle, I've been telling people for years to adjust their withholdings and take home more each paycheck but they always end up saying "what about my refund?"... ugh... :facepalm:

Think about it.. you get a check for $4000 each year or you can get nearly $80 more every single week. Now wouldn't that help our more? Instead of getting it all at once and blowing it, you can use it to live, to eat, to get around and take care of yourself.


I'm trying to be as nice as possible but I can barely read these posts.

[Jaimecbr900]

I'm guessing some serious help from Earned Income Credit here.

It's a losing battle, I've been telling people for years to adjust their withholdings and take home more each paycheck but they always end up saying "what about my refund?"... ugh... :facepalm:

Think about it.. you get a check for $4000 each year or you can get nearly $80 more every single week. Now wouldn't that help our more? Instead of getting it all at once and blowing it, you can use it to live, to eat, to get around and take care of yourself.


I'm trying to be as nice as possible but I can barely read these posts.

Right??? So I'm not crazy, right? (She's a real accountant. So yall betta not try and argue or she'll whip out a slide ruler and own you..... )

I've said the same thing to employees for YEARS. People think that if they get some big refund they're actually coming out ahead. All they're really doing is lending Uncle Sam money at 0% interest..... People won't ever get that for some reason.

[BITCHING]

i dont make that much i know is easy for everyone to say budget how can anyone budget one 220 a week with 2 kids .wen am not working on unployment i make more then working its like a 100d rise just for being off work for a week but wen i go back the next week thay take more out of my pay chack two ins. and two weeks 41k pay back that leave me with making 120d wen i go back to work for the week how can you budget that

[ironchef]

i dont make that much i know is easy for everyone to say budget how can anyone budget one 220 a week with 2 kids .wen am not working on unployment i make more then working its like a 100d rise just for being off work for a week but wen i go back the next week thay take more out of my pay chack two ins. and two weeks 41k pay back that leave me with making 120d wen i go back to work for the week how can you budget that

Its easy to do that, next time don't have two kids when you know you obviously can't support them. I can't believe the idiocy in your post, it makes my head hurt.

[tony]

Its easy to do that, next time don't have two kids when you know you obviously can't support them. I can't believe the idiocy in your post, it makes my head hurt.

While your post is true its a bit non productive, I can empathize with him/her since I am a single parent myself (I do take well care of my son though) it is redundant to say don't have two kids. Yeah, it'd be stupid to not use protection from here on out but really.. why not address the situation from now going forward rather than what should have been done.

Not flaming ya.. just saying, people do put themselves in situations where they could have used better judgement, but they didn't. Just leave it at that.. its nothing to get frustrated over.

[ironchef]

While your post is true its a bit non productive, I can empathize with him/her since I am a single parent myself (I do take well care of my son though) it is redundant to say don't have two kids. Yeah, it'd be stupid to not use protection from here on out but really.. why not address the situation from now going forward rather than what should have been done.

Not flaming ya.. just saying, people do put themselves in situations where they could have used better judgement, but they didn't. Just leave it at that.. its nothing to get frustrated over.

If you want to have kids, then by all means have kids, just make sure you can fully support them first. If you make a poor decision, thats understandable, but don't try to confront or deride others when they give suggestions like "try to have a reasonable budget".

[tony]

If you want to have kids, then by all means have kids, just make sure you can fully support them first. If you make a poor decision, thats understandable, but don't try to confront or deride others when they give suggestions like "try to have a reasonable budget".

Agreed, can't argue that

[tony]

BITCHING,

I'm not going to tell you how to live your life but with two kids, your every last ditch effort should be bettering your situation to provide more for your kids. There are tons of resources out there to help you get to where you want to be, the thing is you need to take the initiative to make these programs work for you.

Have you thought about taking college courses a couple of nights a week? There is federal funding for that. Taking up a new trade or looking into investing? How old are you by the way?

[JennB]

Right??? So I'm not crazy, right? (She's a real accountant. So yall betta not try and argue or she'll whip out a slide ruler and own you..... )

I've said the same thing to employees for YEARS. People think that if they get some big refund they're actually coming out ahead. All they're really doing is lending Uncle Sam money at 0% interest..... People won't ever get that for some reason.

They think it's free money. People get mad when someone they know gets a larger refund than they received. That's money that came out of your paycheck!!!! The government is not just giving it to you.

People do not seem to understand that your tax liability is based on what you make and then your deductions from that. If you have two people who make the exact same amount, same deductions and one person gets back $300 and the other gets back $3,000... the $3,000 guy received much smaller paychecks all year. They both paid the exact same amount in taxes.

[BITCHING]

every one wonts to b#tch about it but i was making 20d a hour back then how meny males do you see with there kids all the time not there mother . just my comany cut jobs went from 3 shifts to only one . sent most of there work overseas. fixing to send the whole thing over there .just use here is a werehouse.to repack everthing. but from making 20d a hour to 10d a hour .but bush would not have opened the would up to shiping all the stuff over here for cheaper. i would still be working 6 and 7 days

[tony]

every one wonts to b#tch about it but i was making 20d a hour back then how meny males do you see with there kids all the time not there mother . just my comany cut jobs went from 3 shifts to only one . sent most of there work overseas. fixing to send the whole thing over there .just use here is a werehouse.to repack everthing. but from making 20d a hour to 10d a hour .but bush would not have opened the would up to shiping all the stuff over here for cheaper. i would still be working 6 and 7 days

What are you trying to accomplish here.. long term? And please don't say $20 an hour.

[BITCHING]

if i was still making what i use it i would love to here about the fair tax law

[jwrape]

if i was still making what i use it i would love to here about the fair tax law

I was a single father for a while with sole custody. It's becoming more common the more Judges figure out that it's not always the best to be with the mother 100% of the time. Luckily I have a wonderful wife that took my Daughter as her own.

On the Fair Tax, you should want it after getting laid off due to your company moving overseas.
Fair Tax would reduce taxes on companies that come from overseas to start companies here. Therefore your company would be more likely to come back in the states to set up shop and others like it, providing more jobs likethe one you lost for $20/hr.

[jfman]

Bitching - I suggest you invest in getting an education. Your writing is so poor, it's barely readable.

[BITCHING]

i have a good education and i have cdls i dont wont to be on the road and i have a beness degree. just spelling not my strong point.

[ironchef]

i have a good education and i have cdls i dont wont to be on the road and i have a beness degree. just spelling not my strong point.

Apparently not that good of an education. Communication is one of the most vital skills in the business world. If you ever want to put your "beness" degree to good use, try working on your written communication first.

[tony]

I'm not bashing but it could not have been a school in the University System of Georgia, there is no way you could pass the Regents test with that kind of grammar. Seriously if you want to better your situation you're going to have to step up from what you are currently qualified for.. or take matters into your own hands and start a business. Complaining about your current state doesn't solve anything.

[0p7!mu5]

so my question is why if this is such a good idea (minus the few bad points that can be solved with compromise) havent we instilled this idea yet I havent seen much of an arguement really

[Vteckidd]

so my question is why if this is such a good idea (minus the few bad points that can be solved with compromise) havent we instilled this idea yet I havent seen much of an arguement really

because politicians arent open to the idea. For one it would make the IRS useless (in its current form) therefore killing all their jobs. No i think thats a BS arguement because there would still have to be a govt agency to oversee the tax collected from the businesses.

The system in place now makes too much money for certain people , and politicians use it to their advantage.

[ironchef]

so my question is why if this is such a good idea (minus the few bad points that can be solved with compromise) havent we instilled this idea yet I havent seen much of an arguement really

Biggest reason imo, and the FairTax book's also, is that the plan takes away power from the government and gives it back to the people.

"Governments should fear their people, not the other way around" - some guy

Don't remember where I heard/read that, but its the truest words ever spoken imo.

[JennB]

There are plenty of people who point out the bad sides to such a system. Do a google search and you will see. It's always best to read both sides and make up your own mind.

[Vteckidd]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/cox4.html