Latest "Ring" lap times (grabs popcorn)

[VooDooXII]

So...why is the Mazda 626 on there?

[XanRules]

I can't tell what's goofier about the #2 car - the name "Donkervoort," or the way it looks:

[XanRules]

Also, it sure is interesting to see how the fastest ones have some of the lower hp numbers.

[David88vert]

I can't tell what's goofier about the #2 car - the name "Donkervoort," or the way it looks:

I love that car. The Danish got this one right.

[IDCoconut]

Thanks for the list.

I just still find it odd no one else has come close to Nissan's claimed time around the ring...with showroom stock cars. d

[OnURleft]

You can still manually change gears in a gtr, just without the use of a 3rd pedal. I do not understand why the use of said 3rd pedal makes the difference between a true drivers car and a car that just drives itself. Driving a stick is not too much harder than an auto, yes it requires more skill, and yes the lap time would be lower, but not significantly lower. I do agree that the gtr prob does not go that fast around the ring, but to say that it's lack of a 3rd pedal allows it to drive itself is a bit excessive.

And if you were simply referring to the electronic driving aids in the gtr, porsche's offer much of the same in their cars as well...

I think your personal love/admiration for porsche has clouded your judgement on this topic.



............

The car is heavy, drives flat and is relatively easy to go fast in without much input from the driver. Hit its limit and it could bite you harder then you've ever been bit. The car is not a drivers tool, it's hard to boss around and twitchy as hell at the limit. It's just designed to be as fast as possible, then it breaks. A fast car, hell yes, a drivers car.... I don't think so. I could probably name 10 cars in the same price range or 1/2 the price that aren't as fast but subjectively are a hell of a lot more fun.


To the O.P and whoever may be basing how fast a car is on the list... Don't.... It's an awesome reference but it's just as unreliable as claiming my stock S2000 is stronger then yours because it made 10 more whp at said dyno. Weather, humidity, the trans, the DRIVER, whether or not the car was really stock and a host of other factors really skew the times. Little things like Dot 4 or 5 brake fluid could make or break a time on Green Hell.

[EJ25RUN]

I can't tell what's goofier about the #2 car - the name "Donkervoort," or the way it looks:

The RS 270 was not the car that clocked a 7:14. It was the RS 08

[RL...]

The car is heavy, drives flat and is relatively easy to go fast in without much input from the driver.

That can be said of most cars on this list, all those cars are pretty fast and it's easy as putting the tranny into 1st gear/drive and pressing the gas. That's not hard to do in any of those cars. Don't act like shifting requires some special skill that 1% of ppl can perform.

Hit its limit and it could bite you harder then you've ever been bit.

Could be said of ANY car...

The car is not a drivers tool, it's hard to boss around and twitchy as hell at the limit. It's just designed to be as fast as possible, then it breaks. A fast car, hell yes, a drivers car I don't think so.

I've read expert reviews saying it's very manageable to drive, even at its limit...that british guy in top gear even said in one episode that he didn't think it was worth the price of 2 evo's, before he drove it. But after driving it he was blown away and said it really was worth the price of 2 evos...

Also, the car was named automobile of the year by several magazines....if cars in the same price range/cheaper cars are just as much fun wouldn't they have been picked?

Just saying...

[VooDooXII]

The earlier Donkervoort D8 looks really great...like a really nice modern version of the old Lotus 7s. I think they've overdone it with the new one, but it's probably all in the name of aerodynamics.

[okra1981]

I can't tell what's goofier about the #2 car - the name "Donkervoort," or the way it looks:

It looks like a Viper took advantage of a Morgan Aero at prom, now it has to live with the consequences; damn, Zima + Jolly Rancher = sex in any hole, just ask the Viper.

[Master Shake]

that british guy in top gear even said in one episode that he didn't think it was worth the price of 2 evo's, before he drove it. But after driving it he was blown away and said it really was worth the price of 2 evos...

Also, the car was named automobile of the year by several magazines....if cars in the same price range/cheaper cars are just as much fun wouldn't they have been picked?

that first part is straight opinion based. it doesn't mean shit. i mean, you can't take someone's word on how YOU would like something. you gonna take my word on that i have the world's fastest street legal civic? and its the most mother fuckin fun you could ever have while driving a fwd car? yea, i wouldn't advise it.

the 2nd part. yea, those are opinion based, as well. me, personally. for the price of the GTR, i'll take a new STS-V or Porche. i'm sure i could have just as much fun in one of those as i could the GTR.

just saying...

[Paul]

i would probably say there is quite a large % of error in these times as driver + track conditions are so important; not including there has been much speculation that some vehicles like the skyline wasn't stock.


IMO same driver and conditions makes for the best times...

Top Gear times... for example:

The Power Board

Per the rules of the board, in order to qualify, a time must be set by a road-legal car that can pass over a standard sleeping policeman. For this reason, times by an aeroplane, F1 car and various track cars do not appear.

1. 1:17.1 - Gumpert Apollo
2. 1:17.3 - Ascari A10
3. 1:17.6 - Koenigsegg CCX (with The Top Gear Wing)
4. 1:17.8 - Pagani Zonda F Roadster
5. 1:17.9 - Caterham Seven R500 (cold tyres)[5]
6. 1.18:3 - Bugatti Veyron
7. 1:18.4 - Pagani Zonda F
8. 1:18.9 - Maserati MC12
9. 1:19.0 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce
10. 1:19.0 - Enzo Ferrari
11. 1:19.5 - Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4
12. 1:19.5 - Porsche 997 GT2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<<<<<
13. 1:19.5 - Ariel Atom 2 300 [6]
14. 1:19.7 - Nissan GT-R ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<<<<<
15. 1:19.7 - Ferrari 430 Scuderia
16. 1:19.8 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP640
17. 1:19.8 - Porsche Carrera GT
18. 1:20.4 - Koenigsegg CCX (without Spoiler )[7][8]
19. 1:20.7 - Ascari KZ1 (damp)
20. 1:20.9 - Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
21. 1:21.2 - Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
22. 1:21.9 - Ford GT
23. 1:22.3 - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
24. 1:22.3 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS (996 mk.II)
25. 1:22.4 - Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06
26. 1:22.5 - Noble M15
27. 1:22.6 - Westfield XTR
28. 1:22.9 - Ferrari F430 F1[9]
29. 1:23.0 - Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG Black Series
30. 1:23.2 - Ferrari F430 Spider F1[9]
31. 1:23.7 - Lamborghini Murciélago (retested)
32. 1:23.8 - Pagani Zonda C12 S 7.3 (partly damp)
33. 1:23.9 - Aston Martin DBS
34. 1:23.9 - Koenigsegg CC8S
35. 1:24.0 - Ariel Atom 1 220[10]
36. 1:24.2 - Veritas RS III
37. 1:24.3 - Prodrive P2 (concept)
38. 1:24.4 - Audi R8 (damp)
39. 1:24.6 - TVR Sagaris
40. 1:24.8 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ-400
41. 1:24.8 - TVR Tuscan Mk.II
42. 1:25.0 - Noble M12 GTO-3R
43. 1:25.1 - Lotus Exige S
44. 1:25.3 - BMW M3 E90 Sedan
45. 1:25.7 - Lotus Evora
46. 1:25.7 - Audi RS4[11]
47. 1:25.7 - Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder
48. 1:25.8 - Lamborghini Gallardo (wet)
49. 1:25.9 - Morgan Aero 8 GTN[12]
50. 1:26.0 - BMW Z4M
51. 1:26.0 - Mercedes-Benz CLK 63 AMG Black series
52. 1:26.0 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ320[13]
53. 1:26.2 - BMW M5[14]
54. 1:26.2 - Porsche 911 Carrera S (997)
55. 1:26.2 - Brabus S Biturbo Roadster
56. 1:26.4 - Lotus Exige (mildly moist)
57. 1:26.7 - Porsche Cayman S[15]
58. 1:26.8 - Chevrolet Corvette C6 LS2
59. 1:26.8 - Ferrari 575M Maranello GTC[16]
60. 1:26.9 - Lexus IS-F
61. 1:26.9 - Mercedes-Benz CLS55 AMG

[OnURleft]

That can be said of most cars on this list, all those cars are pretty fast and it's easy as putting the tranny into 1st gear/drive and pressing the gas. That's not hard to do in any of those cars. Don't act like shifting requires some special skill that 1% of ppl can perform.



Could be said of ANY car...



I've read expert reviews saying it's very manageable to drive, even at its limit...that british guy in top gear even said in one episode that he didn't think it was worth the price of 2 evo's, before he drove it. But after driving it he was blown away and said it really was worth the price of 2 evos...

Also, the car was named automobile of the year by several magazines....if cars in the same price range/cheaper cars are just as much fun wouldn't they have been picked?

Just saying...

You are just an epically stupid magazine racer dude. I have no time for a response other than reading your subjective bullshit. I am talking from experience, and from seat time, not from what "someone said in some magazine" . Some stuff. I suggest you quit while you're behind.

[speedminded]

FC = factory claim
IT = independent time

Trying to figure out exactly what IFC is...

[RL...]

You are just an epically stupid magazine racer dude. I have no time for a response other than reading your subjective bullshit. I am talking from experience, and from seat time, not from what "someone said in some magazine" . Some stuff. I suggest you quit while you're behind.

1) I do not race nor read many auto magazines....and as for you not having time, apparently you have time to browse online to auto forums and talk shit so don't tell us that you don't have time. You're fooling nobody.

2) You're response is just as subjective as mine

3) those people talking in magazines are a lot more credible than you



I was trying to have a friendly debate, but apparently you got hurt by my post and now you want to start talking shit online...real mature....you're such a badass

Now if we can keep the name calling out of this maybe we can converse like adults....

[Master Shake]

NissanTun3r, you don't read mags but you know that quite a few them have named the GTR car of the year? where did you read these "expert reviews" about the GTR being manageable to drive? it had to be from some source. more than likely it was online, which most of the stuff online, is in the mags.

shifting requires no skill? i think it does. yea, anyone can shift, but its knowing when to shift thats key. i do believe that takes skill. you can't just shift when you hit the redline or you'll be hitting the fuel cut as well cause you to run a 1/4 time to be a few tenths of a sencond slower than what it should be. few tenths not a big deal? tell that to the GTR who's behind the ZR1. after all, its only a few tenths. cause either way, its still behind, not in front.

only reason you think people in the mags are more "credible" than OnUrLeft is cause, well, they're the ones writing the article. meaning they are getting the info from other people who have driven the cars and using everything their saying and putting it down into words for you to read. that doesn't make them more credible, its makes them good writers.

[alpine_aw11]

The GTR's computer system is what make people think it isn't a drivers car, not that it has paddle shifters. There are plenty of exotics with paddle shifters that are amazing vehicles to drive. It isn't just a coincedence that the GTR is overweight and underpowered then puts those times out. I cant say anything bad about it, the technology is amazing, but personally I would take an ACR over any other car on that list. That's more my style.

[nreggie454]

The GTR's computer system is what make people think it isn't a drivers car, not that it has paddle shifters.

Agreed. The flappy paddles are only part of the reason why it isn't a driver's car. Also, in a real driver's car, you can turn off traction control without voiding the warranty.

[Vteckidd]

I hate the "GTR drives itself" argument.

Its innovation anyway you look at it. Who cares. Ferraris have paddle shifting dont they? is it because there is no clutch pedal?

I wouldnt say the ZR1 fails, its a great car, just a little out of its price range IMO. if it was a $90,000 car i think it would be selling a lot more.

[RL...]

NissanTun3r, you don't read mags but you know that quite a few them have named the GTR car of the year? where did you read these "expert reviews" about the GTR being manageable to drive? it had to be from some source. more than likely it was online, which most of the stuff online, is in the mags.

shifting requires no skill? i think it does. yea, anyone can shift, but its knowing when to shift thats key. i do believe that takes skill. you can't just shift when you hit the redline or you'll be hitting the fuel cut as well cause you to run a 1/4 time to be a few tenths of a sencond slower than what it should be. few tenths not a big deal? tell that to the GTR who's behind the ZR1. after all, its only a few tenths. cause either way, its still behind, not in front.

only reason you think people in the mags are more "credible" than OnUrLeft is cause, well, they're the ones writing the article. meaning they are getting the info from other people who have driven the cars and using everything their saying and putting it down into words for you to read. that doesn't make them more credible, its makes them good writers.

1) I do read car magazines, I said I don't read many. I don't bother with bs like import tuner...and yes the reviews I have read about the gtr haev been form online or magazines...that doesn't make them any less credible

2) Again, you misread what I wrote. I never said shifting takes no skill. But my arguement is that it does not take more skill than anyone with 2 legs and 2 arms can perform, and I do not think that's the differance betweem a drivers car or a car that drives itself...

3) I have not nor am debating that the gtr is faster than the zr1..so I do not know why you put that in your post...I'm sure the zr1 is faster....but for 120k I'm buying soemthing european...

4) The ppl writing the magazines articles are more credible than onurleft. And many of those writers are also drivers, the drivers that test cars and then report about them. And it does make them more credible, because since those writer are professional drivers or take the words of the professional drivers it's essentially the driver's point of view. And yes, the experienced driver is definitely more credible than some guy on an import forum named onurleft who could be some redneck hill billy married to his sister for all we know.

[speedminded]

1) I do not race nor read many auto magazines....and as for you not having time, apparently you have time to browse online to auto forums and talk shit so don't tell us that you don't have time. You're fooling nobody.

2) You're response is just as subjective as mine

3) those people talking in magazines are a lot more credible than you



I was trying to have a friendly debate, but apparently you got hurt by my post and now you want to start talking shit online...real mature....you're such a badass

Now if we can keep the name calling out of this maybe we can converse like adults....

LOLOLOL! The difference is OnURleft knows how to steer and control a car not just with the steering wheel but with the clutch, brake, and throttle.

If anyone thinks a car "drives itself" because it has a computer controlling the slave cylinder than you're a idiotic couch racer. Ferrari, BMW, all of them have been using automated MANUAL transmissions for years. The BMW SMG is the EXACT same transmission as the Manual 6-speed and uses a regular clutch and flywheel. No valve bodys, no springs, no torque converter, no bullshit found in an automatic. The only difference is the speed and control of your hand telling the computer that controls the slave cylinder instead of a foot lever. They are NOTHING like the manual operated automatics most of you think this car has found in a Mitsubishi for example.

The newer versions, including the GT-R, have 2 clutches and 2 main shafts with alternating gears that anticipates and prepares the next gear based on your rev's, throttle, and load...making it even quicker and smoother. A true "driver" is a balancing act of braking and throttle all while shifting and controlling the weight of the car...the way the clutch engages doesn't really matter as long as the power and torque is there when you need it. The transmissions like the GT-R allow it to get there quicker and smoother than any manual can.

I'd love to see how many people that talk shit have ever driven a true automated manual or even a true sequential other than a motorcycle. Hell I never even use a clutch on a bike unless i'm taking off or want to screw around in 2nd gear. It's basically the same principle.

[VooDooXII]

Ridge Racer 6 has a car that looks just like that Donkervoort.