When you make good products, this economy is no big deal

[speedminded]

I dont think you can judge the way the car market is going by the quality and reliability of american cars vs. other cars. Honda and toyota have suffereed big losses recently, does that mean they make bad cars? its just the level of pricing thats effecting the car business. American companies sell cheaper cars, people buy more cheaper cars than the more expensive cars. People buying AMGs and M cars, arent really hurting that bad obviously. you can get american made cars for reasonable affordable prices that appeal to more of the people that are struggling than the Ms and AMGs, its common economics..

All this shows is that the rich are getting richer.

How are Corvette's sales doing the past year?

[DinanM3atl]

How are Corvette's sales doing the past year?

I am sure terrible. I have been preaching that GM needs to offer just one corvette. It comes with a 400hp engine and a manual or auto. No options and certainly no ZR1 that will COST them more money to make and claim all the praise then they will EVER make back on sales.




Ian, you mention the Malibu. The newest one is a GOOD car. No one will give it a chance because everyone is riding the GM is shit bandwagon. It is not their fault they are riding the bangwagon as it is warranted. However the car is a decent ride.


I still won't agree with you though overall. BMW makes good cars. Great. However claiming that M Cars and AMG cars are so amazing is well and true but it certainly will not keep them afloat. The performance cars have dropped in sales as well. Those looking to spend that kind of money could have spent it before or after the economy tanked.

[OnURleft]

How are Corvette's sales doing the past year?

Sure as hell won't save them, and actually not that great. The margin for profit on a Vette is not that high, and they are not making enough good cars to keep them afloat to produce cars like Z06's which don't make much money, but people want because they are cheap and are really just awesome cars.

[JITB]

Sure as hell won't save them, and actually not that great. The margin for profit on a Vette is not that high, and they are not making enough good cars to keep them afloat to produce cars like Z06's which don't make much money, but people want because they are cheap and are really just awesome cars.

cars like corvettes dont save companies at all. They are always made at a loss.. and usually are made when the company is doing well. Or trying to start something new, and they start form the top and go down. Impalas/monte carlos/cobalts/ silverados are gms cash cows. it seems like you are seeing car buying as if everyone wants the best car that performs on a track or in the 1/4 mile. people want a good car, that runs, and looks nice, lap times..Hp, skid pad, weight. is all second when it comes to the types of buyers that Gm/Ford gets. Truth is the whole automotive industry is hurting really bad.. No one is buying new cars.. people are wanting used cars, because they are the most economical way to go.

[OnURleft]

cars like corvettes dont save companies at all. They are always made at a loss.. and usually are made when the company is doing well. Or trying to start something new, and they start form the top and go down. Impalas/monte carlos/cobalts/ silverados are gms cash cows. it seems like you are seeing car buying as if everyone wants the best car that performs on a track or in the 1/4 mile. people want a good car, that runs, and looks nice, lap times..Hp, skid pad, weight. is all second when it comes to the types of buyers that Gm/Ford gets. Truth is the whole automotive industry is hurting really bad.. No one is buying new cars.. people are wanting used cars, because they are the most economical way to go.

Sure as hell won't save them, and actually not that great. The margin for profit on a Vette is not that high

......

Yes your exactly right. When people buy 320i's, 518's,C180's and A4 1.6's or 116i's (millions of which that are sold annually) they are specifically looking into it's 1/4 mile time...Again, sarcasm.
Any smart buyer is going to be concerned about the performance aspect of the car to some degree. Like I said earlier, there are tons of ignorant and patriotic people buying American to buy American in support of their country, but when the economy gets tough, smarter consumers with money for a new car are buying the better brands that are not hurting as bad.

Ian, you mention the Malibu. The newest one is a GOOD car. No one will give it a chance because everyone is riding the GM is shit bandwagon. It is not their fault they are riding the bangwagon as it is warranted. However the car is a decent ride.

Couldn't agree with you more. It is a great car, my uncle who has owned some amazing GM muscle cars (different GTO's, 700whp W30 442, all GM products) and currently drives and SRT-8 300C brought a fully loaded V6 home on a 24hr test drive. To the average consumer it would be hard to tell this car came from the same people who made the Century, Aztec, or Grand Prix (the list goes on) but it still had some typical American quality traits you could pick up. All in all, was it worth its 40 grand asking price??? Nah. Is it a great car after you consider all the rebates GM will give you just to take it off the lot? Yes.

[JITB]

. Like I said earlier, there are tons of ignorant and patriotic people buying American to buy American in support of their country, but when the economy gets tough, smarter consumers with money for a new car are buying the better brands that are not hurting as bad.

you are being just as ignorant. just because people are brand loyal to a company that is the foundation. for almost all car companies. makes them ignorant? you aren't stating any facts your just giving opinions. if your gonna base this debate on performance and lap times. does this mean the cobalt is better than everything above it on the ring times?

[DinanM3atl]

you are being just as ignorant. just because people are brand loyal to a company that is the foundation. for almost all car companies. makes them ignorant? you aren't stating any facts your just giving opinions. if your gonna base this debate on performance and lap times. does this mean the cobalt is better than everything above it on the ring times?

I would say being stubborn He loves BMW and I think Audi...


Saying that you are ignorant because you don't care about a cars performance is kind of dumb. Some people REALLY don't care. My mom wanted a larger sedan and she has always had Mercedes. She does not care about the cars performance at all. The only reason why she got the V8 and Sport Package is because that made other items that she wanted STANDARD and thus cheaper than the e320 overall. She would drive an E Class with a 4 cylinder Diesel. She doesn't care at all and my mom is not ignorant.

My dad gets a company car and he chose the Grand Prix GTP because of all the options(for the company car) given it came standard with a Sunroof. He could careless that is is the 'cool' performance version. Is he ignorant also because he picked one with a sunroof?

Ian I think you are missing the point here. Rich people were buying AMG and M cars before. The economy is not affecting those buyers nearly as much. There are some guys that actually were fronting as upper class so those guys are possible selling their AMG and M cars. Hell Porsche sales are down 13% in January.

When your LARGEST customer base is lower and mid class and the economy tanks you are looking at BIG sales drop. The lower class could barely buy a car when they were working 40 hours a week AND were allowed to get up to 15 hours overtime. Now they are dropped to 30 hours a week and many lost their job.

The middle class that was splurging on a new car every 2 or 3 years is now forced to keep driving a car they own. They are not buying luxury goods. If they need a car they are not currently at BMW shopping for an M3 Sedan.

It is just not a fair comparison to say that BMW M sales and AMG are doing fine but GM sucks.