Who thinks its a true story?

[Glides]

The Rotary has already proved itself as a failure when it comes to mass production. The Rotary will meet the same faith as did two stroke motorbikes.

Usually your responses are very thoughtful and right on the money. This one though..... .

Rotaries are VERY reliable....as long as you take freaking care of them. IE Change your fucking oil. A Non-turbo Rotary will take WAY more pounding, hard driving and plain ass kicking than any piston engine hands down. I've Solo'd numerous Rotaries and EVERY time I run in the redline, buzzer screaming for 2 to 3 minutes, a time, 5 to 6 times a day.

Now. A Turbo Rotary will ALSO last. My first FD. 138,000 on the original motor, trans, wiring harnes (Which is amazing). What was the secret to longevity? Taking care of it. The problem most Rotary drivers had with the stock 3rd gen was that they paid over 40k for the thing, treated it like a supercar, parked it in their garage and let it sit without starting it on a weekly basis. You can do that with a piston engine, you cannot do that with a Rotary. They get in them after 6 months down, crak it over, hit the street and blow up through the power with a cold engine....pop goes the seal.

So. You are completely wrong. It's not the engines fault, it's the jackasses that owned them and didn't treat them like they should haves fault. End of rant.

As for the rest of this thread.....RX-7 is dead. If you notice, the RX's were a progression number. Same as the Datsuns. Progression means change. Now...may we see a RX-9 down the road with what you want in an RX-7...maybe but I doubt it. The current state of the world economy, the volitile fuel prices, whole countries are looking at not being able to balance budgets because of tanking oil prices, car companies suffereing....I doubt much experimental tomfoolery with Rotary trucks and whatnot is coming anytime soon. Besides, nothing could ever recreate the REPU man...nothing could come close to that level of coolness.

[EJ25RUN]

Usually your responses are very thoughtful and right on the money. This one though..... .

Rotaries are VERY reliable....as long as you take freaking care of them. IE Change your fucking oil. A Non-turbo Rotary will take WAY more pounding, hard driving and plain ass kicking than any piston engine hands down. I've Solo'd numerous Rotaries and EVERY time I run in the redline, buzzer screaming for 2 to 3 minutes, a time, 5 to 6 times a day.

Now. A Turbo Rotary will ALSO last. My first FD. 138,000 on the original motor, trans, wiring harnes (Which is amazing). What was the secret to longevity? Taking care of it. The problem most Rotary drivers had with the stock 3rd gen was that they paid over 40k for the thing, treated it like a supercar, parked it in their garage and let it sit without starting it on a weekly basis. You can do that with a piston engine, you cannot do that with a Rotary. They get in them after 6 months down, crak it over, hit the street and blow up through the power with a cold engine....pop goes the seal.

So. You are completely wrong. It's not the engines fault, it's the jackasses that owned them and didn't treat them like they should haves fault. End of rant.

Ok, let me paraphrase in another way so you can better understand what i meant.

Let me begin by saying that i never said rotaries are unreliable and or any other points your rant brought up.

I'm assuming you misinterpreted my use of the word "failure."

The Rotary has already proved itself as a failure when it comes to mass production. The Rotary will meet the same faith as did two stroke motorbikes.

What that meant was in the modern automotive industry, it is much harder to get a rotary to be as versatile as a piston engine. Forget our enthusiast culture for a second and look at the average person who could care less about cars. Owning a rotary in their eyes is an unnecessary burden. 90% of car buyers don't care that much about performance.

Mazda has used this in creating a niche market all to itself with the rotary engine. In my eyes, THAT is the failure.

Other car brands have experimented with it but that has all come to nothing because an equal investment in a piston engine holds promise for a much better reward. Nissan's VQ35 is a good example because so many Nissans and Renaults were powered by it. This has much higher profit potential. A rotary could never be that versatile. It lives as a powerplant for enthusiasts.

This is where my example of two strokes comes form. 500cc and 250cc motorbikes died about 15 years ago all over the world because 1. they don't work on the street, 2. their powerbands are terrible 3. the emissions are a joke by 1980 standards.

So you see? The reason i consider a rotary a failure is not because some owners need proper training to be allowed in purchasing it. No, it is because over the last century, Rotarys were simply not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world. Otherwise, more rotary engines would be on the market today.

[David88vert]

Ok, let me paraphrase in another way so you can better understand what i meant.

Let me begin by saying that i never said rotaries are unreliable and or any other points your rant brought up.

I'm assuming you misinterpreted my use of the word "failure."




What that meant was in the modern automotive industry, it is much harder to get a rotary to be as versatile as a piston engine. Forget our enthusiast culture for a second and look at the average person who could care less about cars. Owning a rotary in their eyes is an unnecessary burden. 90% of car buyers don't care that much about performance.

Mazda has used this in creating a niche market all to itself with the rotary engine. In my eyes, THAT is the failure.

Other car brands have experimented with it but that has all come to nothing because an equal investment in a piston engine holds promise for a much better reward. Nissan's VQ35 is a good example because so many Nissans and Renaults were powered by it. This has much higher profit potential. A rotary could never be that versatile. It lives as a powerplant for enthusiasts.

This is where my example of two strokes comes form. 500cc and 250cc motorbikes died about 15 years ago all over the world because 1. they don't work on the street, 2. their powerbands are terrible 3. the emissions are a joke by 1980 standards.

So you see? The reason i consider a rotary a failure is not because some owners need proper training to be allowed in purchasing it. No, it is because over the last century, Rotarys were simply not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world. Otherwise, more rotary engines would be on the market today.

So, by your statement, F1 cars and MotoGP bikes are failures, since their engine designs are "not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world" either. Hmmm....

You missed one key item - training. Dealership mechanics have to be trained to understand how they work, and many of them simply have no desire to learn anything new, like rotarys. Without the proper support from the dealerships and factories, no product will be stable.

[EJ25RUN]

So, by your statement, F1 cars and MotoGP bikes are failures, since their engine designs are "not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world" either. Hmmm.....

I have always said racing improves the breed. Modern F1 will influence the cars of the next decade as the cars of the late 90's and early 00's are influencing modern street cars. In fact as you surely know, Ducati sells you a real Motogp machine for the street.

An F1 example for the street could be the incredibly high strung engines found in exotics like Ferraris. They need regular and ultra expensive maintenance at very short intervals. This does not work for an average individual but it works for a car that is likely to see less than 3,000 miles in a year. But, some of that tech will eventually make its way to regular car engines.

So, i feel that development in motorsport has actually made the rotary engine work better in the real world.

(if i miss understood your comment, tell me how i am off)

You missed one key item - training. Dealership mechanics have to be trained to understand how they work, and many of them simply have no desire to learn anything new, like rotarys. Without the proper support from the dealerships and factories, no product will be stable.

Most of the mechanics i know come from tech schools like UTI. These schools focus mainly on piston gas engines and diesels. So when a mechanic goes into the work force, they will as you said, be less inclined to learn the rotary engine.

Now as i have never been a mechanic, i don't actually know how many things a modern mechanic will have to adapt to. I guess an example of that could be learning hybrid battery repairs. I'm assuming Toyota and companies like it will be having their people learn those repairs but the difference here is that the mechanics will be more inclined to learn it since they will see it on cars from other brands. A Mazda mechanic will be done with Rotarys if he moves on to another brand.

[DVSRX-7]

rotary sucks buy a honda

lol your mom sucks and like i said before honda is for HOMO's.. (HOnda MOtors)... so keep your FWD shit

[EJ25RUN]

lol your mom sucks and like i said before honda is for HOMO's.. (HOnda MOtors)... so keep your FWD shit

Way to make yourself look intelligent.

[DVSRX-7]

Usually your responses are very thoughtful and right on the money. This one though..... .

Rotaries are VERY reliable....as long as you take freaking care of them. IE Change your fucking oil. A Non-turbo Rotary will take WAY more pounding, hard driving and plain ass kicking than any piston engine hands down. I've Solo'd numerous Rotaries and EVERY time I run in the redline, buzzer screaming for 2 to 3 minutes, a time, 5 to 6 times a day.

Now. A Turbo Rotary will ALSO last. My first FD. 138,000 on the original motor, trans, wiring harnes (Which is amazing). What was the secret to longevity? Taking care of it. The problem most Rotary drivers had with the stock 3rd gen was that they paid over 40k for the thing, treated it like a supercar, parked it in their garage and let it sit without starting it on a weekly basis. You can do that with a piston engine, you cannot do that with a Rotary. They get in them after 6 months down, crak it over, hit the street and blow up through the power with a cold engine....pop goes the seal.

So. You are completely wrong. It's not the engines fault, it's the jackasses that owned them and didn't treat them like they should haves fault. End of rant.

thanks for backin me up bro..

[On_Her_Face]

i think your a fucking idiot. why isnt that up there??

X2

[Benefit]

ruck fotaries

[Glides]

Ok, let me paraphrase in another way so you can better understand what i meant.

Let me begin by saying that i never said rotaries are unreliable and or any other points your rant brought up.

I'm assuming you misinterpreted my use of the word "failure."




What that meant was in the modern automotive industry, it is much harder to get a rotary to be as versatile as a piston engine. Forget our enthusiast culture for a second and look at the average person who could care less about cars. Owning a rotary in their eyes is an unnecessary burden. 90% of car buyers don't care that much about performance.

Mazda has used this in creating a niche market all to itself with the rotary engine. In my eyes, THAT is the failure.

Other car brands have experimented with it but that has all come to nothing because an equal investment in a piston engine holds promise for a much better reward. Nissan's VQ35 is a good example because so many Nissans and Renaults were powered by it. This has much higher profit potential. A rotary could never be that versatile. It lives as a powerplant for enthusiasts.

This is where my example of two strokes comes form. 500cc and 250cc motorbikes died about 15 years ago all over the world because 1. they don't work on the street, 2. their powerbands are terrible 3. the emissions are a joke by 1980 standards.

So you see? The reason i consider a rotary a failure is not because some owners need proper training to be allowed in purchasing it. No, it is because over the last century, Rotarys were simply not good enough engineering wise to work in the real world. Otherwise, more rotary engines would be on the market today.

I understood what you said pefectly. I don't think you understood what you said. Let me explain.

You said the Rotary was a failure at Mass Production. I say you are completely dead wrong on that. Here is why. The first Rotaries came over in the 60's. R100 rebadged Familias hit around that time. But for fun purposes, we will look at the RX-7's and maybe the RX-8's.

The FB:

474.565 were produced.....377.878 were sold in the US.
Sports Car International named it #7 on it's list of best cars of the 70s.
In 1983 the RX7 appears on the Car and Drivers 10 best list for the first time.

The FC:

272,027 Produced. Non-turbo not allowed in Japan.
They were restyled after the 928 and mostly the 944 Porsches after a lead designer spent time in the US talking to RX7 owners and looking at other sports cars.
Motor Trends Import car of the year for 1986.
Car and Drivers 10 best list for a second time in 1987.
Sold 86,000 in the US alone in it's first year in production, 1986. Sales peaked in 1988.

The Convertible FC. Fatured the first ever Windblocker, the nice little think that goes up behind the driver when the top is down that you now see on all these Mercedes and BMWs. The FC did it first.
It also was named best Ragtop by numerous magazines.

The FD:

68,589 produced. Even in low numbers, The 92-95 years were considered the best seller by Mazda because it was sold to so many different places, mainly the US.
It featured the first ever Mass Produced, sequential twin turbo system ever exported from Japan. It was here before the others.
Motor Trends Import/Domestic car of the year. (Thats ALL cars))
Playboy named it better than the VIper and named it Car of the Year for Playboy in 1993....if it's good enough for Hugh, it's not a failure.
It also made Car and Drivers 10 best list for ALL THREE years it was sold in the US.
In 2007, Road and Track said that the Ace in the sleeve for Mazda was the RX7, A car once touted as the purest, most Exhilerating sports car in the world.
The FD is still regarded as one of the most balanced and finest handling cars of all time.
The design was so far ahead of it's time, that it lasted 11 years, with the Rotary.

Now, We can all agree that the RX7 IS the Rotary. Let's not forget the R100, REPU, RX2, RX3, RX4, RX8 and the Cosmo numbers.

I would say Mazda did anything BUT fail at Mass Production and success with the Rotary Engine. Where you see they have failed by creating a niche market, I see that they have succeeded very much with it. They are not a company based on the Rotary. They will not live and die by it. But they have succeeded with it greatly and have proven that it is a viable platform by putting it into extremely capable cars. That is anything but failure for an engine design to last well over 40 years in production, reletively unchanged other than increasing displacement and adding Turbos.

Sound like success.

[Glides]

Now, what killed the RX7 in America was not the engine, the emissions...none of that. What killed it was the price. The RX7 was one of the 4 super cars from Japan. The FD, the Supra, The 300ZX and lastly, late in the game, the 3000GT-VR4.

The RX7s, the Supras and the Nissans all came out to be poor mans sports cars. They were meant to have Porsche Performance at budget pricfes. They did that very well in the beginning. The FBs and the 240Z's were cheap, fast and great cars to do SCCA racing in. Now, as time went on, they fattened them up, loaded them up with gadgets and gizmos and then you end up with $40,000 cars that basically outgrew that market they were originally designed for.

For $40,000 you could get something that is synonomous with style, speed and grace to the average white bread cracker american like me. I could get a Bimmer or a Porsche for that money back in 93 that chicks would salivate over. You need to remember that some of you were still riding with training wheels when these cars came out and times were very different then. There was no Import Aftermarket. Nopi was a bunch of stores that stocked VW parts and I worked at the one in Athens. So buying one of these required a very special love for the car. Which caused the RX7's ALOT of trouble, because people bought them, put them in garages and left them there. Matter of fact, on a funny note, I had one of the very first, if not the first Veilside repo wings to come out of Nopi on my 93 FD in like 97 or something. Back when you could go to TArget and 5 people would ask you if that car was a Ferarri or a Lamborghini or something. You just never saw FD's. I won a trophy once at a car show and the guy announced it as "That crazy red car, we don't know what it is but it's cool"

Now, bring in the RX8....put it beside an RX7 and you are severly let down. Hence the sales problems of the RX8. Mazda just couldn't compare with it's predecessor. Add that to the fact that Rotary horror stories still circulate by peolple that generally have no clue what they are saying and there you have it.

Thats what killed the super Japanese performance cars of the early 90s and it's taken this long for the market to start opening up again to allow things like the GTR to come over here.

[87 Turbo II]

from a business stand point mazda is dumb to make more rotaries cars,i love the RX-8,but it has not sold well,its underpowered and gas milage sucks,the FD did terriable in the american market,the only RX-7 ever to do great was the FB,FCs did ok when the 1st launched then the fell off by the time the S5 came out...emissons and Gas is waht kills rotary cars,and the price new...RX-8s are over 30k new,which is deff over priced for its sportscar market..........thier will never be a redo of a old RX car,but there is huge chance of the RX-9 which is a 2 seater sports car with the new 16X engine making production,then the RX-8 will die

The Rx-9 already exists. The RX# is a Rotary experiement #. They started project 8 in the late 80s (a DDable sports car for the average family man) and they made the Rx09 in the early 90s in Brazil. The 8 was brought back up as Mazda went back to experiment 8's intention. If they make another 2-seater pure sports car, it will regain the name Rx-7again as experiment #7 was sports car.

[EJ25RUN]

Mazda production #s

You just proved what i said.


I said Mazda has been the only company to really go anywhere with the Rotary.

This means none of the other brands wanted to use it. In todays world, Mazda sells only 1 car with a rotary engine.

Last time i checked, NSU and Norton which did try rotarys are dead.

I find it hard to call an engine a success if only one brand has been profitable with it. This makes rotary seems like a one trick pony.

[EP3sAreFun]

The Rx-9 already exists. The RX# is a Rotary experiement #. They started project 8 in the late 80s (a DDable sports car for the average family man) and they made the Rx09 in the early 90s in Brazil. The 8 was brought back up as Mazda went back to experiment 8's intention. If they make another 2-seater pure sports car, it will regain the name Rx-7again as experiment #7 was sports car.

very very cool way of naming the cars.